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Author Topic: Spoiler-loaded Serenity reviews
plaid
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Thanks for the edit, imogen. Sorry for the [Mad] in my post.

I love Hatrack very much and have heard about lots of great books and movies thanks to y'all. Heck, I heard about Firefly thanks to Hatrack... it's just frustrating sometimes when I come across spoilers where I'm not expecting them. (Yea, Hatrack giveth, and Hatrack taketh away...)

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ambyr
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Random question: When Book says "That wasn't very Christian of me," is that the first time Christianity is mentioned by name in the show and movie? I seem to recall the original TV episodes being a lot more coy on the exact nature of his religion (it obviously had Judeo-Christian roots, but could have veered a good bit off course in the 500 years since the present).
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twinky
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Book refers to his scripture as "the Bible," and River talks about the Ark story, so I think it's safe to assume that his religion is some sect of Christianity. Also, in Heart of Gold he says "I've been following in the footsteps of a carpenter for some time now," which is a pretty clear reference to Jesus.
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Lyrhawn
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There's plenty of references to it. It's obvious Inara follows some form of Buddhism. And Book makes a lot of Christian references. Also, Mal kisses his cross during the Battle of Serenity Valley.
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Mabus
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Regarding the Reavers, if it's not too late....

After thinking quite a bit about the Reavers (I had to--the notion of berserkers flying spaceships is difficult to swallow whole), I have some speculations.

Most social critters--yes, humans too--have a dominance hierarchy in some form. Now, among humans, most of our dominance behaviors are relatively "high-brow"--cutting insults and the like--though certain...alternatives can be seen on the streets at times. But a great many creatures are less subtle; they fight, and the more aggressive and/or predatory they are, the more vicious they are about it. To be sure, dominance fights are not typically all-out--at the end of "greeting" a newcomer, your cat may be bleeding and bruised, but not dead. But the Reavers' aggression has been turned full-on.

This suggests that the interior of a Reaver ship--if you can stomach imagining it at all--is stocked with the strongest, toughest, meanest, and yes, to some degree, the smartest Reavers--the ones who have survived the process of finding their place in the hierarchy. Periodically, savage fights will break out between Reavers close in ability--that is, if there are any such left. In its way, it is no doubt a brutally meritocratic world, if the qualities listed can be considered "merits" in this context. If observed (presumably through a transmitted picture) by ordinary humans at range, the "captain" might well appear to be the sanest person on the ship--he has probably eliminated any close rivals. And worse....

Fear and aggression are not totally incompatible. But when fear forces aggression into the background, it rarely does so completely. Lacking any other target, an aggressive creature at the bottom of the heap may well turn on itself--plucking out feathers or fur, scratching or biting at its flesh. Even in humans, we sometimes see this in "self-punishing" behaviors. (Scary, scary thought--the Reaver as Dobby!) The lower a Reaver ranks, the more scarred he is likely to be, not merely from fighting but from his own self-mutilation. A captain secure in his position is probably relatively unharmed.

Ordinary people, however, are unlikely ever to observe the inside of a Reaver ship and return. An encounter with normal humans presents both "strange dogs" and soft targets--a perfect opportunity for even the weakest Reavers to unleash their fury. This suggests a disquieting scenario--humans "converted" by the Reavers are not the losers. Losers get eaten. They are the "winners"--the ones who manage to unleash their inner savagery enough to cow some portion of the crew and win a place in the hierarchy. Considering the degree of viciousness required to dominate such a being without actually killing it, sanity is clearly out the airlock at that point.

Time to return from exploring the darker crevices of the Reaver mind. I think I've had enough.

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imogen
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That's ok, Plaid.

I think I'm over my snippiness, but please call me on it if I do it again.

And I promise to think before I post! [Smile]

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Narnia
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That's interesting Mabus. It makes sense too. It kind of backs up my belief that the Reavers couldn't possibly increase or even maintain their population through the 'recruits' they gather during the raids.
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Miro
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Anybody else here ever play Civilization II? There's a melody in the Serenity score that's straight from the game (though I'm sure it didn't originate there). It drove me crazy throughout the film. I definitely missed the music from the series. Is it just me, or do a lot of recent action-type scores sound like Pirates of the Caribbean?
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Narnia
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Shame on YOU! That Serenity score sounded nothing like Pirates! The instrumentation and motivic work is fantastic (in Serenity). I love the way he worked the different cultural 'sounds' into the soundtrack. Not that the Firefly soundtrack is bad, I like it a lot. But the movie music is wonderful.

And I'm willing to get all wenchy about it. [Smile]

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Miro
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To be fair, there was really only one moment (maybe two) where I got a whiff of PotC-type music. I only mentioned it bc I've noticed it a lot in other movies (which I can't recall right now, grr).

I still think the Firefly soundtrack is better. [Razz] *squares off*

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Narnia
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*whacks Miro on the head with her umbrella*

[Big Grin]

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El JT de Spang
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Any word on how the movie's doing through the week? Obviously the weekly gross counts toward the overall, but is the number one movie just calculated off of the weekend takes?
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plaid
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[Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]
(for imogen)

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Narnia
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It's been pulling in over $500,000 a day so far. It's slipped to #4 in the standings though. [Frown] We've got work to do this weekend.
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JemmyGrove
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Thanks Mabus. Maybe it's my 'inner reaver' talking, but I have to admit I have this morbid fascination with the darker crevices of the reaver mind. Not that I enjoy looking at 'dark' things, but I'm awfully interested in how the society functions. Those are some mind-catching speculations.

Though I think I still agree with Narnia that they probably couldn't maintain their numbers through 'recruiting.' Which leaves the question wide open for me . . .

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CaySedai
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I've seen it! :dies:

:revives: Must see it again! (Maybe Saturday?)

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Derrell
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[Hail] Joss It was so cool. I just got back from seeing it with my mom. She liked it. I too, was fascinated by the reavers.


Amaaaaaaaazing movie.

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Taalcon
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I will note that many 'quotes' from the 'Bible' in the Firefly series are not quotes that appear in any of our current Bibles.

Saffron's particular quote that makes Mal whimper, "Good Bible" comes to mind, as well as the full passage quoted by the woman in "Safe" that leads to River's persecution.

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blacwolve
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I doubt Saffron's quote was from any Bible in or out of the show's reality.
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Joldo
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Yes! I just saw it with my drama club.

Now: does anyone know where Joss Whedon lives?

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Beren One Hand
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My favorite religious reference is is "Our Mrs. Reynolds," when Mal woke up, all woozy like, and asked, "Is it Christmas"?

[Smile]

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CaySedai
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I just checked my email and I was a random winner in the 9/30/05 trivia contest at the Browncoats site.

I get a Serenity prize pack: bandanna, chopsticks, window cling, mug and patch. I will be the envy of the office, at least of a couple of people at work. [Big Grin]

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Treason
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AW lucky! Good deal.
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Shigosei
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I notice some people said they dressed up for Serenity. I'd love to see pictures. This is me dressed up, though not the actual night of the movie.

Serenity costume

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ketchupqueen
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I'm going to see it Sat., and dressing up is definitely my kind of thing.

Unfortunately, I'm performing with the family band at 3 that afternoon, then we're dropping Emsie off at my mom's, and then heading straight to the movies to catch the last matinee.

So unless my "costume" fits with what we decide to wear on stage (we don't have a "uniform" look, but we do bring it up the day before so as not to clash or have one person have a totally different look from the others), I will be unable to dress up. [Frown]

Of course, as we're performing Americana/Old-Timey music, I may well be able to find a "costume" that will work with that. [Wink]

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Fyfe
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I saw Serenity again yesterday, and here is my official review of it.

quote:
You may have heard of Serenity, but you may just as well have not, so let me just explain it briefly. They’re billing it as the next great sci-fi adventure, which means it’s a bit like the new Star Wars movies, except more exciting, higher stakes, cooler characters, way more kickassery, and dialogue that doesn’t make you want to slit your throat and rip out your esophagus and strangle the actors and the writer with it. So I guess not that much like the new Star Wars movie at all.

In case you didn’t get the memo, Serenity is the cinematic continuation of the television show Firefly, a sci-fi western that got cancelled after a mere eleven episodes. The persistence of its devoted fans and of director and writer Joss Whedon (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel) has gotten it to the big screen after nearly three years of waiting. Now, I don’t much care for science fiction and I don’t like westerns at all, so logically there’s no reason for me to like this movie. Which just goes to show, you shouldn’t put too much credence in logic.

Captain Mal Reynolds (Nathan Fillion) and his motley crew of ragtail rebels (yeah, I had to say that) are trying to stay under the radar of the pro-homogeneity, anti-motley-crew Alliance, while living peaceful lives as petty criminals. Sadly for them, they are carrying two strays, Simon and River Tam, who have been marked fugitives ever since Simon sprang his younger sister from a sinister Alliance-controlled “Academy”. To complicate things further, River is brilliant, psychic, and—thanks to the Academy—schizophrenic and highly trained in unarmed combat. Thus Mal and his crew are having to outwit the Alliance, led by a ruthless killer known only as Operative, as well as evade a savage cannibalistic group called “reavers”, in order to keep River (and themselves) safe.

Let’s pause for a moment and discuss Nathan Fillion’s performance as Mal Reynolds. Personally, being a sucker for antiheroes, I am in love with him, but do be warned: he is a bit darker than your average antihero. In an ending-up-having-to-shoot-a-guy-he-refused-to-rescue-from-being-raped-and- eaten-by-reavers kind of way. But just be patient: he is crossed in love, don’t forget, and if you wait for a little while he’ll reveal his true colors. Nathan Fillion carries this movie beautifully with hard-faced conviction and frequent flashes of gallows humor. Kudos also to Chiwetel Ejiofor for imbuing his role as the Operative with a chilling blend of cruelty and unshakeable devotion to his cause

While there are, inevitably, a few moments that jar—for instance, when ship thug Jayne Cobb (Adam Baldwin) limps about expositing awkwardly to sweet-faced mechanic Kaylee Frye (Jewel Staite)—and a few events that smack of deus ex machina, particularly if you haven’t seen the show, the movie as a whole works remarkably well. Whedon’s talent for dialogue is unmistakable, as he mixes Chinese slang and old western speech patterns to weirdly genuine effect. The plot soars breathlessly from catastrophe to catastrophe, but Whedon never lets it take itself too seriously. At the same time, though, let’s remember that there are no guarantees. The crew of Serenity have no special powers to see them through. And they could die. And people do.

The main gripe I’ve heard is there’s not enough character development. Fair enough—a number of the crew members don’t get enough screen time to progress far beyond archetype. But the characters who need to be are fleshed-out, and—I’ll be frank here—you’ll get more character development if they make more a sequel.

So do all of us—and especially yourself—a favor, and see this one.

I like having chances to use the word "homogeneity".

Jen

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JemmyGrove
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Shigosei, I'm not sure I get it. Is it possible you linked the wrong picture? Or is there something about it I should recognize as a reference to Serenity?
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Lord Solar Macharius
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Shigosei's pic is a reference to one of the shots of River in the episode Objects in Space.
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Teshi
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I saw it again today and I am now fairly sure that Book was originally an Operative His Ident card in Safe got the same reaction as The Operative's hand print did in Serenity. His refusal to tell Mal anything. His knowledge of both the alliance and the way The Operative was going to approach is also suspicious. He also was the only "survivor" of the ALliance attack on Haven- he brought down the ship. That's quite a talent. What else could he be?
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Joldo
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Ooooh . . . pretty . . .
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Narnia
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Hey!!! They blurred out Mal's butt on the Sci Fi channel tonight! Why else do they think people WATCH that episode? [Wink]
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Beren One Hand
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Inara holding a gun. [Smile]
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Taalcon
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Saffron?
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Beren One Hand
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Yes, I like watching YoSafBridge holding a gun too.
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Treason
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"Hey!!! They blurred out Mal's butt on the Sci Fi channel tonight! Why else do they think people WATCH that episode?"

Yeah!

I'm going to go watch it right now, in fact! Unblurred!

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Beren One Hand
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[Big Grin]

I am really dreading the "Heart of Gold" episode that is coming up soon. I know I'm going to be very sad when Zoe and Wash talk about having a baby. [Frown]

I can't believe the death of a fictional character has such an effect on me. *sigh*

Someone I know posted a very old Whedon interview about deaths in the Whedonverse. It makes a lot of sense and I agree with the points Joss makes. But I'm still sad, nonetheless.

quote:
Q: One of the things that you do from time to time in Buffy and in Angel is to establish a very important character, and then ruthlessly and unexpectedly kill them off. And you have said that you like surprises, but with Jenny, for example, in Buffy, and with Doyle who was a costar in Angel, you just set up these people and then take them from us. St. Elsewhere did that, Twin Peaks did that, not a lot of TV shows do that. Why do you do that, and what reaction do you get from fans when you do do it?

Joss: Well, I do it because I want to keep people afraid. I want to keep people in suspense. I want people to understand that everything is not perfectly safe. The problem with doing a horror show on television is that you know your main characters are coming back week to week, and you don't really care about somebody who just showed up for one episode.
So every now and then you have to make the statement, "No, nothing is safe," and that's a very effective way of doing that.

If somebody objects, if somebody says, "How could you have killed that character? You have to bring that character back! You have to bring that character back!" I know I've done the right thing. If they go, "Oh, they're dead," then I killed the wrong person, because nobody cares.

One of the things that people always shy away from is killing a sympathetic character. When I worked on Speed, there was a character who died, a lawyer that Alan Ruck played, and I took out the lawyer. He was a bad man. He was terrible. You know, he was causing trouble and he ended up dying, and I turned him into a likeable, sort of a doofy toursit guy, and they're like, "Well now we can't kill him!" And my opinion was, "Well now you should, because now people will actually care when he dies." NPR Interview


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Shigosei
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Beren, I just watched that scene.
quote:
I want to meet that child one day.
Me too. I hope that Zoe is in fact pregnant, but it would be terribly sad for that child to never meet Wash, and for Wash to never see his child. He would have been an awesome daddy.
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Alucard...
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I just got my package from Amazon.com with my DVD collection of Firefly (I have been living under a rock for the last 2 years), and after watching the first few episodes, I am both very happy and very very sad...
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Lyrhawn
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It's a bit convenient for Zoe to be pregnant. I almost hope she isn't. Whedon's reason for killing Wash is that it's unexpected and he wants to jar you back into reality. It's too comfortable for her to be pregnant, reality rarely has such parting gifts.

I just went to see Serenity again with my brother, who I made watch my dvds of the show. His review was basically mulled into this: "It was like one big episode, only two people died." He liked it, sort of, but was very disappointed by what happened.

I have a new opinion of it. I enjoy it as a movie. I'm even coming to terms with Wash dying. I'm positive Book was an Operative. But I even more firmly believe that the movie is much MUCH weaker to people who haven't seen the series. Killing Wash served it's purpose, for people who have seen the show. But otherwise it's really not that powerful. He's a funny guy, but with his limited screen time there's no time to appreciate him or his death in any real way. For it to make more sense, we'd need more Zoe/Wash time.

Having said that, I have a couple other problems, that I've mentioned before, but for the sake of clarity, and after a second viewing, I want to reiterate:

Book - For someone who hasn't seen the series his character is totally misrepresented. His role isn't explained, his history (even on the ship with the crew) isn't explained, we really have no idea who he is and what his relationship to Mal is. All we are given is that the crew hides on Haven, and that Book is a source of advice. The only reason he even had lines was to try and set up some sort of emotional almost father like figure for Mal to be sad about when he was killed off later.

Simon/Kaylee - There is one, ONE reference in the whole movie before the end to Simon and Kaylee having any sort of sexual tension. The show was rife with it, but other than Kaylee's sexual frustration voiced in that bar on Beaumont, nothing is said about it. It seems stupid to make it this huge thing at the end that they are FINALLY getting together, when from a non-Firefly person's point of view, there has never really been any anticipation.

Inara - No explanation of what she does, or who she is. From the movie alone we don't know what she does, what her relationship to the crew is, other than the fact that she used to be there and that "a real life Companion serviced clients here" which we might be able to garner some idea of what she does from, but not really. We know that Mal drove her off somehow, and that there's some sort of romantic tension between the two of them, but other than that aren't really given any reason at all to care about them. You see the tension build up in the show, but in the movie you hit it just past the apex, which to me is a lousy way to present a complicated romantic relationship that might or might not be in the making.

The only thing I don't like about Mal is the fact that he told Simon point blank that he isn't a part of the crew, which is 180 degrees opposite from what he said in "Safe."

I already covered Wash and Zoe earlier, but again, there's nothing there. I've come to grips with her initial reaction in the fight. She's tough, she's a soldier, she can get through it. But after the funeral even, you could tell from just the way the music changed when they were rebuilding Serenity. It took the crew all of five minutes to get over Wash. To me, this tells the audience one thing: "Wash's death isn't that big a deal to the crew, so why should it be a big deal to you?" Why should I care about a character if the other characters in the movie don't really seem to?

My final review would be, that as a movie for people who have seen the series, it's fantastic. Even with Wash's death, which I had thought would ruin it all for me, I think it's the best thing I have seen this year, and maybe in many years, which is a big deal coming from someone who had been looking forward to Ep. III for EVER.

However, as a stand alone movie, without the series, I think it's empty, and choppy, and turns into your average run of the mill shoot em up western, only in space, so we have some shiny CGI.

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Avadaru
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Mm, I just bought Firefly with a birthday gift certificate...I am very happy. [Big Grin]

I saw Serenity again last night. I didn't cry at all the first time I saw it, but now that I knew what was coming I was crying 10 minutes before Wash's death actually happened. Fyfe had to pass me a tissue. I'm itching to go see it again...

Also, I think I am in love with Nathan Fillion.

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blacwolve
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Ok, I saw Serenity again last night. I don't get everyone's complaints that Zoe and Wash's relationship wasn't obvious enough. Everytime we see them together they're being sickeningly sweet and cuddly with each other, far more cuddly than they ever were in the show. Almost everytime someone mentions Wash to Zoe they call him "Your husband." When they're communicating while being chased by reavers they call each other "honey" and "Baby". To be honest, I'm not sure what more everyone else is looking for. Short of showing a scene of the wedding ceremony, I'm not sure there's more Joss could have done to make their relationship more obvious. I felt like I was being hit over the head with it so that I would understand when he died how that effected her.

Also, my friend who was seeing it for the first time turned to me during the final battle and asked, "Are they all going to die?" Which is exactly what I think Joss wanted us to be thinking.

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TomDavidson
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quote:

There is one, ONE reference in the whole movie before the end to Simon and Kaylee having any sort of sexual tension.

I would dispute this. Pretty much every scene in which the two of them interacted, or any scene in which Kaylee observed Simon or spoke about him, it was obvious that they cared for each other. I mean, blatantly obvious.

A line does not have to be spoken for meaning to be conveyed. [Smile] While someone reading the script might miss all the meaningful looks being thrown around, I don't know how it'd be possible for someone to miss that in a movie. You'd almost have to have Asperger's.

I got the same vibe from the "Zoe/Wash not obvious enough" and "Mal too mean" complaints; in all cases, while the script didn't address these issues, the actors made the characters' feelings explicit. We KNOW Mal is anguishing over his decisions -- almost to the point of crying -- and acting tougher than he is, even though he never says it, because we can see it on his face; we know Zoe and Wash are madly in love, because we see it in their eyes -- and when Zoe goes berserk on the reaver after Wash's death, we know why. Even though it's never actually said.

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Treason
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Well, I *dragged* my mom and her husband to go see it tonight, while I'm visiting Alabama. (this makes time #4 for me)
They didn't like it too much. [Frown]
Oh well, at least 3 more tickets were bought!

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kojabu
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I went to see it again tonight with my dad. The theater was pretty full for a 5.20 showing, which was good. My dad can be pretty critical when it comes to movies so I really wanted to get his opinion on it.

He really liked the dialogue and the fact that it didn't take itself too seriously. He compared it to the dialogue of the Star Wars movies - which is so wooden - and said it was so much better. He also kept saying I'm a leaf on the wind, poor Wash! He thought that some of the animation with the ships fighting could have been better, to which I replied that wasn't the main focus of the movie.

He had no idea that Zoe and Wash were married. He liked how the character of Jayne was acted and also liked the fact that no one really "stole the show." hmm, what else.

Oh, he said he was thoroughly entertained throughout the entire movie, which as he said, is saying a lot for him.

As for my opinion on the second showing, I realized how much I like the opening sequence and how it just flows from one scene to the next. I also noticed how the crowd was very different from the crowd last time, especially when they laughed - or didn't. Most people who have seen the show think the line "It's ok to leave them there to die" is funny, but it didn't really get as much of a laugh today.

I generally don't like watching movies over and over because I'll get bored during one scene or another, but that didn't really happen with this one.

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
I would dispute this. Pretty much every scene in which the two of them interacted, or any scene in which Kaylee observed Simon or spoke about him, it was obvious that they cared for each other. I mean, blatantly obvious.
I would dispute that. Kaylee showed the exact same concern for Inara leaving as she did for Simon and River leaving. Are we to assume that Kaylee has a sexual thing for Inara as well? In fact, every time she mentioned being upset about Simon leaving, she mentioned Inara leaving like 2 seconds later. It wasn't blatently obvious. Kaylee spent the whole movie caring about the well being of EVERYONE equally, and never gave Simon any extra due.

The possible one exception to that rule is at the very beginning when the mule crashed into Serenity and Kaylee rushed to see if Simon was okay instead of asking Mal, who had just had a giant piece of metal almost crush him. But so much happens between that scene and the next time they even try to show a Kaylee/Simon scene that you might've forgotten it by then. I didn't remember it until I saw the movie again earlier today. It's a one liner.

It pales in comparison to the obvious SEXUAL tension of the show. That Kaylee cared about Simon is obvious in the movie sure, but that A. that feeling is mutual, and B. that it's a long standing issue isn't obvious at all until they throw it in your face at the end.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Kaylee spent the whole movie caring about the well being of EVERYONE equally, and never gave Simon any extra due.
Okay, keeping in mind I've only seen the film once, here are moments that stand out in my mind involving Kaylee and Simon:

1) Kaylee showing obvious concern when Simon is upset with Mal at the beginning of the film.
2) Kaylee rushing to Simon's side after the Mule crashes.
3) Kaylee watching Simon with obvious affection while he argues with Mal.
4) Simon and Kaylee almost kissing as he "permanently" leaves the ship.
5) Kaylee rebuking Mal for abandoning Simon, complaining that she hasn't had sex in over a year, throwing his treatment of Inara in his face, and storming out of the bar.

It's not taken as a "given" in the same way that the Zoe/Wash relationship is, but I think the movie actually goes out of its way in the first half to establish that Zoe and Wash are married and Kaylee has a thing for Simon (although they don't really make it obvious that Simon has a thing for Kaylee until he "leaves.") There are bits in there that, as I look at them, could serve no other narrative purpose but to establish those relationships.

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Avadaru
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I think Simon and Kaylee's feelings for eachother were blatantly obvious. I honestly don't see how this can be disputed, but ok...

I took my best friend to see it tonight, and he enjoyed it a lot. He hasn't seen the series (that will soon be remedied), so he was confused about a lot of the characters and their relationships with one another, but he thought it was a great movie overall. He also thinks River looks like a monkey. [Razz]

This makes #3 for me. Had I more money, I'd be seeing it much, much more often.

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Beren One Hand
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Joss mentioned that when Kaylee said "Never fly in anything with a Capissen 38 engine, they fall right out of the sky," that's a mechanic's way of saying "I love you." [Smile]
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Lyrhawn
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My bad, I forgot my Mechanic-English dictionary at home when I went to see the movie.

The first time I went to see it, there were people with us who hadn't seen it. Other than Wash's death confusing them a bit, no one made a big deal out of Kaylee/Simon at all. They thought she was just pissed at Mal because he kept driving away crew members, and they thought she might have a crush on Simon, but they never got the fact that there was this big, long standing sexual tension between them. They just thought she was mostly sad that another crewmember was leaving, and that Simon was too busy worrying about River.

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TomDavidson
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You may just have been surrounded by people, as I mentioned earlier, with Asperger's. [Wink]
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