posted
I got to see it for the second time today, and took my girls (ages 12 and 9) with me. My younger daughter, I prepared a little bit by showing her the first part of the movie online from that link, and warning her a couple of minutes before Wash was killed. She's a very sensitive soul. However, she has seen the series, so she knew who everyone was and knew about reavers and all. My older daughter chastised me for telling her who died (before the movie), but she wanted to know. All in all, we very much enjoyed the movie. Posts: 2034 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:complaining that she hasn't had sex in over a year
Does that work out chronologically? Inara said in the episode with the refugee turned Reaver that she had been on Serenity for 9 months I thought. We know Kaylee was hired after having sex with the old mechanic under the engine
How long was it between the end of the show and the movie? 3 months? Yeah I guess that works out right, if that mechanic was the last guy she was with.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:2) Kaylee rushing to Simon's side after the Mule crashes.
That was a pretty direct hint. Mal makes a big deal out of it and that scene always gets a huge laugh out of the crowd. It was not a small, nuanced moment. People were meant to catch that connection between Kaylee and Simon, and I think most people did.
My friend told me that Kaylee not only ignores Mal, but she steps over a slightly injured Jayne to get to Simon. I'm not sure if that is true, I'll try and see if I can catch that during my next viewing.
quote:5) Kaylee rebuking Mal for abandoning Simon, complaining that she hasn't had sex in over a year, throwing his treatment of Inara in his face, and storming out of the bar.
Right before the awesome "twixt my nethers" line, I think Kaylee also said "captain could'a made them family, instead of driving them off, 'stead of keeping Simon from seeing I was there, when I carried such a torch."
Captain Tightpants retorts: "You knew he was going to leave.... and how do you know how he feels? He's got River to worry on. But he still could've shown you. If I truly wanted someone bad enough, wouldn't be a thing in the 'verse that could stop me from going to her."
Based on this conversation I think the audience can easily figure out that Kaylee really likes Simon.
quote:My bad, I forgot my Mechanic-English dictionary at home when I went to see the movie.
Fair enough. The line itself is fairly cryptic. But Kaylee's emotions were pretty transparent when she gave that warning. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Alright, I'll grant you Kaylee then, I don't remember that exchange so clearly, but now that I think about it, you're right. People paying attention to the movie should have picked up on it then.
Where does Simon show his feelings for her? We know that he likes her too, we always have.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Actually, I agree with you there. I think Simon's feelings for Kaylee wasn't apparent throughout most of the movie.
But that's ok. The payoff in the end still works as long as the audience know that Kaylee liked Simon and understand that Simon's feelings for Kaylee were somewhat obscured by his devotion to River.
Don't forget that Simon's feelings for Kaylee wasn't crystal clear during the series either. We know he feels affection for her, but it was usually left unexplored due to his concern for his sister and his general awkwardness with women.
[ October 09, 2005, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with a lot of your criticisms regarding Book and Inara's diminished roles in the movie.
*novelization spoilers*
In the novelization (which was based mainly on the script), there were two scenes that I thought would've enhanced the movie greatly.
1. There was a dinner scene on Haven where the Serenity crew ate with Book and the other townsfolk. Jayne gave Book a box of rare Cuban Cigars. Hiroko, the kid Kaylee hugged in the movie, sat on Kaylee's lap the whole time throughout dinner.
2. There was a scene at the companion training house that showed another companion teasing Inara about rumors of her having "fallen in love with a pirate."
Heck, I wish the movie were nine hours long so each character can get their due. But what can you do? Oh yeah, watch the movie again so the series comes back to TV. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
The diminished roles didn't bother me so much really. Inara did what she had to do, she wasn't integral to the plot. But they could have at least spent a scene, 10 minutes, explaining who she was and why she was there.
Actually, I think the best way to introduce Inara and Book would take less than three minutes. If Mal had done the introduction, only slightly edited, things would make a lot more sense later on:
"Earth that was could no longer sustain our numbers, there were so many. We found a new solar system, with dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. Each was terraformed, a process taking decades, to support human life, to be new earths. The central planets formed the Alliance, ruled by an interplanetary parliament. The Alliance was a beacon of civilization to many, but some folk saw things differently, and wanted to break away, refusing Alliance control. The war was devastating.
When it was over, I got myself a ship, and found a crew. We come from different backgrounds, some fought in the war, some fight for the money. We even had ourselves a Shepard from Haven, and a bonafide Companion for awhile. Everything changed when Simon and River came on board."
Not sure really what he would say after that, maybe just end it there, but as he is talking about River, the shot could flip us back to River as a young child. Her dialogue doesn't really fit with what we knew about her from the show. Remember when she was a kid, on that one ep in Firefly, she was playing Independents and Alliance or whatever, and she was on the side of the Alliance. Kind of like playing Buggers and Spacemen in Ender, and the Independents were the Buggers.
I think it makes less sense for her to be pro-independent in the movie. But anyway, her dialogue could change to just in general sounding like a smarty pants, and then have the teacher jab the pen into her head again, and then continue on as normal. And now when we hit Book, we already know he has an attachment to the crew that goes further than just being a safe harbor. It also builds a little excitement waiting to see if these characters will show up or not.
Plus I think it would be more emotionally powerful to have Mal, having fought for the Brown Coats, talk about the war. The voice he spoke with when talking to the Operative after Haven was destroyed was haunting and full of emotion. That'd be a great narrative voice for the opener, rather than the draining emotionally void voice of the chick who does the real opening.
posted
River was dreaming about the school. I think she's talking as much about them meddling with her as she is about meddling with the outer worlds. I bet that little exchange didn't actually happen to River when she was a young girl.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by sarcasticmuppet: I just saw it again. I caught this beautiful nugget of dialogue in the second viewing (please forgive my paraphrasing):
Mal: You think she'll hold up? Zoe: She's been beat up pretty good, but she'll fly true.
Now tell me Zoe isn't mourning for Wash, in her own way.
I caught that exchange when I saw it with my Hubby and I got all chocked up! Then I had to explain it to him that it was her not just the ship they were referring too. Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
It occurs to me that a LOT of the dialogue in this movie is not meant to be read only literally. In fact, you'd probably miss quite a lot of the film if you always assumed the characters were only talking about what they were saying.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
As far as I could tell, all of the scenes with River at that school came from somewhere else, they weren't actually hers. Right after the first one, it cuts to the scene of the doctor telling Simon that they do their best work while they are dreaming and that's when they can tamper with the subconscious.
You also see it the second time they cut to the school sequence when she sees the teacher flicker and has all the Reaver images and screaming around her.
Posts: 2867 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tom- I was just writing what you wrote but then I saw that you had already beat me too it. I strongly agree. A lot of what is said in the movie carries more meaning than what is actually said and if you focus only on the words that are said you miss half the film.
That's what's so great about it. However, it could also a flaw in which people see violence and they listen to only what's being said- they turn their brains off.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I watched it for the second time last night. There was a line where River said something about old men drowning in blood, even though they hadn't touched it. Seems to me that she's talking about the members of Parliament that she came in contact with. They did no killing themselves, but they're responsible for the deaths of millions.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Definitely. I kept mentally writing papers on the metaphors, allusions, and symbols in Serenity while I was watching it.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: The idea at the core of Camus' The Myth of Sisyphus is what the author calls "the absurd": Human beings are driven to seek greater meaning and purpose in a universe where, for the good and wicked alike, all roads lead to the grave. And Whedon has a powerful absurdist sensibility. As the film's third act begins, just as the crew has apparently escaped a tough situation, a major character delivers a comic line and, just as the audience is beginning to laugh, is abruptly, brutally, pointlessly killed. It is not a noble sacrifice, not a defeat in battle; there are no stirring, poignant last words. Like so many actual deaths, though very few dramatic ones, it is utterly unexpected and serves no purpose—beyond, perhaps unsettling the Whedon-novice's complacent assumption that main characters can't be killed off arbitrarily. The laugh line is, appropriately enough, "I am a leaf on the wind." (It's funny in context.)
In the face of an absurd universe—one lacking transcendent, factory-installed meanings—we are compelled to create our own. After explaining that The Operative is dangerous precisely because he is a "believer," ship's preacher Shepherd Book tells Mal "I don't care what you believe. Just believe," echoing the proto-existentialist theologian Søren Kierkegaard, who stressed the centrality of passionate commitment, "leaps of faith," in religion....
For the attentive viewer, though, Serenity is not just a string of good chase scenes, but an "absurd reasoning," a surprisingly profound meditation on what freedom means—both in politics and, perhaps more importantly, as a source of personal meaning.
Whedon's comments for Objects in Space is one of my favorite DVD commentary tracks of all time. I was pretty excited when I found someone else geeking out over the same subject matter.
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
On my last viewing I cought something. Just after they barnswallow the mule, a reaver pops up and they kill him. River says (and I'm paraphrasing): "He didn't lie down. They never lie down." meaning that the rest of the population of Miranda did just lie down and die -- all except those that went on to become reavers.
I'm sure this is old news to most of you, but I thought it was pretty interesting.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
The one line I still don't understand is in River's brain. She wakes up on Serenity, handcuffed to the floor and we hear a vicious voice say "cut them down!" before it cuts to her waking up again. Am I hearing the line right? Does that bring us Firefly fans back to Bushwhacked when the Reavers left all those people hanging from the ceiling? Is there any significance to it?
Oh, and another thought: This is how I heard Book's last words:
Book: "River..." Mal: (screams to others) "Come on!" Book to Mal: "I don't care what you believe. Just believe anything she..."
Does that sound right to you? I've been taking it to mean that Book wanted Mal to believe what River was saying, to believe in her and believe in the cause of saving her. It makes sense for Mal then to decide to run Reaver space and get to Miranda. (This is also to piss the Alliance off because they just killed all of his friends.) Did you guys hear Book's lines like that? Is there a script somewhere?
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
Reavers: The thing you must remember about Reavers is that they enjoy inflicting pain and causing fear in their victims. They are the ultimate terrorists. Why didn't they kill off the inhabitants of Miranda? Because the unfeeling, uncaring inhabitants did not scream or fight or cry. They did not care enough to be afraid. This was no fun, so the Reavers grabbed all the vehicles they could and headed for more tasty treats of the feeling/fighting others.
This is also why they don't pick on each other. What fun is there in tormenting someone who does not know how to cry and whimper?
They do some minor recruiting, perhaps they have enough PAX to give it to those who they capture. If the PAXified rebel, they join the crew of that boat. If they don't, they are starved to death as being neither fun to hurt nor worth keeping alive.
.
Walsh's death did something important for the final battle scene. I went into the movie assuming that this would be the rebirth of the series as a long list of great movies.
This is the history that Whedon had to overcome if there was going to be any tension in that fight scene. Without tension its just another body count waiting to happen.
Walsh dies and suddenly that isn't taken for granted anymore.
It was standard movie practice for River to wipe out the gang of Reavers, and I was expecting that, until Walsh died, then River went into mental overload.
Suddenly everyone was vulnerable.
I could not guess who would survive.
That makes some darn nice moviemaking.
. Zoe pregnant next time? Quite possible, but not in the coincidental way. They have a brilliant doctor on board who also cared about Walsh. A little gene manipulation, or a prepared frozen sperm sample, and Zoe would be escaping grief via motherhood.
She would make one interesting mother, and one even more interesting pregnant woman. Add River as birthing coach and we are talking good movie.
.
Here is my prediction of the opening scene of the next movie.
Mal is relaxing over a bowl of soup in the dining area. Jayne enters:
Jayne: Mal, I have a problem. Mal: What could that possibly be? Jayne: We have had a wild run of good luck recently. The last four jobs have been profitable and easy; no one tried cheating us; no one has tried hunting us; heck, no one has even seriously tried killin us. I feel like I ain't earnin my pay. Mal: Jayne, only you would take this here good fortune and make yourself miserable over it. If it does you any good, I am sure that any moment now someone is going to come walking through that door with a problem.
(Both turn toward the door to look. Nothing happens. Pause. Then from the other end of the room Kayle walks in carrying a part)
Kayle: We got ourselves a problem. Mal: See. What is it? kayle: The sprocket valve done broke off of intake number two. Mal: How in the (chinese curse) did that happen. Kayle: Well, you know how I do enjoy workin on the engine. It is plum near a bit too exciting. So when Simon came down to see how I was doing, well one thing led to another, and the Sprocket Valve done got caught between my....(she begins pointing to a delicate part of her anatomy) Mal: (chinese curse) girl. I do not need to know this. Jayne: (Previously bored, now looking interested) I do. Enter Zoe & Simon from the bridge area: Zoe: Mal, we got ourselves a problem. Mal: You too? Zoe: (Looks at the crew assembled, and decides to make it public). I'm pregnant. (Stunned silence) Jayne: How? Zoe: With the help of the doc here.... Kayle: (Heartbroke) Simon!!!! Zoe: With the help of the doc here, I'm gonna have Walsh's kid. Mal: (Starts to say something, several times, comes up blank) Inara: (From off screen) Mal, we have a problem. Mal: (Turning to face where Inara enters)(Mumbles)Thank God. Inara enters followed by a hooded man. Inara steps aside. The man removes the hood. It is the villian from the first movie who's name escapes me, but now he is where a shepherds collar. Immiediately everyone but Inara draws a gun and aims it at him. Villian: I have a message...from Book. Mal: (Stands and steps forward.) Books dead. Villian: Its an old message.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
But it made me sad, and not just for the obvious reasons that two great characters died... although their deaths are certainly major contributors to the overall cause of my sadness.
But I'm sad because in order to make this film an event -- a motion picture -- in its own right and not just a glorified episode of the series... Joss had to blow a big chunk of the Firefly wad. Yes, the tale was great, but wouldn't it have been even greater spread out across anywhere from 7 to 29 more episodes of the series?
Joss, who's next project is the WONDER WOMAN feature, seems to have graduated to movies. And my overall response is... keeping in mind I'm a huge worshipful fan... what a WASTE!!! This is a guy BORN for series television. For taking characters and building them through nuance and familiarity and suprise. For taking universes and creating them, populating them with myth and incident and humanity. For taking stories and weaving them into intricate, surprising and satisfying tapestries.
In movies -- at least in good ones -- you can get a taste of this. But just a taste. In series television, all this stuff is JOB ONE.
So where's my next FIREFLY/SERENITY fix to come from?
And please don't try to tell me there weren't more stories to tell with Book or Wash. And how will those stories come to light now?
It was a great movie. But... I am left with overwhelming sadness over what an even GREATER series it was and would have been.
Quibbles:
The rescue of River doesn't seem to match up with the version we had been told before. I thought others freed River and deposited her with Simon. I didn't think he was a one-man rescue squad.
I found Simon's deactivation word to be a bit hard to buy. If he knew that word, why wouldn't he have used it in "Objects in Space" when she was waving that gun around? It's not like he knew he'd have to save it for a real massacre.
Some of the extra production values in the film got on my nerves a bit. I'd have rather had MORE old west and less extra goop. But that's just me being a curmdudgeon, I suppose.
If you're the Operative, and you know Serenity's "havens" do you really scorch the Earth... leaving them with no place to go that you're aware of? Or do you use that manpower to stake out these locations... and THEN attack? At this point, he had to know that taking this action would only piss Mal off more.
And what was the point of the Operative killing off River's "doctor" at the beginning. Sure, the dude slipped up. But he posed no threat. And one has to assume that his mind -- pride aside -- presented a valuable resource. So what exactly are we punishing him for? Frankly, the real reason to kill him is to (a) establish the Operative and his own sin of pride and (b) to set up Mal's non-death at the end.
The movie was called Serenity, but she felt like way less of a character in this then in nearly ANY episode of the series. (Although I never liked the title FIREFLY for the series. Too obscure.)
I had hoped to see a bit more of the wonderful population of the series. At the VERY least the guys with the blue gloves. But I guess they all had to make way for what was there.
When Book died, I was totally bummed. I kept thinking, why didn't he go with them to Inara. Then he could have returned to Haven to find the massacre and survived it. I felt like there was so much more to get from his character. I hated to see him go.
When Wash died, I was stunned. I hadn't necessarily expected either of these characters to die. I had done a fairly good job at NOT spoiling things for myself. But the death of Book seemed to qualify as the sacrificial lamb. Like the death of the Magus in "Avalon". So I was really caught off guard by Wash's death.
Now don't get me wrong. They were both good deaths for the characters. Heroic and with strength. Not cheap in any way. And structurally right and sound.
But ... well... see above...
So how exactly did those blast doors open? The Reavers were not supposed to be able to open them from their side. I'm perfectly willing to buy the idea that River is smart enough to over-ride whatever Kaylee had done and open them herself. But when they open, she's standing there in her super-hero bleeding-axe pose - not even standing next to the control panel. So who opened those doors?
Was there always a co-pilot's seat? I don't remember ever seeing that before the moment we see River sitting there.
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: She would make one interesting mother, and one even more interesting pregnant woman. Add River as birthing coach and we are talking good movie.
I would love to see that.
Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm wondering if there will be #2. It hasn't been a huge blockbuster (which I don't understand, since it is a great movie...and has great reviews). I guess we will have to wait to see what happens with the rest of the run, and how it does on DVD.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I like the notion of pregnancy via artificial insemination. I am hesitantly willing to buy that Zoe may be unknowingly pregnant in Serenity; I cannot believe that a knowingly pregnant Zoe would have attempted to commit suicide-by-reavers, griefstricken or no.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Woo, I really like the Zoe one. There's such sadnesss and longing in her face. It's as if she's thinking about that beautiful baby she would've had with Wash.
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
My sister actually did the Zoe one for the Browncoat fan art challenge (back before she'd seen the movie). She was really put out when she saw the crap that was posted up there with it. But no worries. She does it in her free time anyway.
Edit: JT, I'll tell her you liked them. I love to show off her stuff. Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Book: "River..." Mal: (screams to others) "Come on!" Book to Mal: "I don't care what you believe. Just believe anything she..."
What I think I heard was: Book to Mal: "I don't care what you believe. Just believe it." (In other words, believe in something.)
When Mal and the Operative face off at Mr. Universe's place, the Operative asks Mal if he believes in what he's doing enough to die for it. He says that he does. I think that's what Book meant. He knew they were facing an Operative - someone who (as Inara put it) was a true believer in what he was doing. Without that amount of conviction, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to beat him.
(edited to take out extra word in my version of what Book said. I was tired, okay?)
posted
My friend who hasn't seen the TV series saw it and said that "apart from the obvious Han Solo rip-off and the annoying fake old-fashioned dialogue that popped up every now and then, it was okay."
Huh.
I think it'd be great for Zoe to have a baby. We need a new big problem for the crew, now that the reavers are pretty much out of the picture, and the Alliance is having problems of its own, and I think a baby would be perfect. Of course, it'd be better yet if it were a toddler, so maybe Joss Whedon can figure something out for that. I think a baby would create an excellent dynamic on the ship, just generally. Everyone would adore it and be frightfully good to it, and Kaylee would think it was the best thing ever, and Mal would pretend he didn't like it but really he would, and Inara would be responsible for it when they went off on a job--yep, that'd be great.
Jen
P.S. Also, I've thought about it extensively and decided that I'd really rather have more seasons of episodes than have more movies. It's not that I didn't absoutely love the movie, because I did, but if the network gave Whedon freedom with the characters and whatnot--I'd rather have the show.
Posts: 910 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't think the reavers or the Alliance are out of the picture. Not by a long shot. There might even be a full-on rebellion, and we could see Sgt. Reynolds again...
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Before I decided I'd never get it written in the time allotted, I was considering a Serenity novel for my NaNoWriMo book. The plot?
In the wake of the Alliance scandals, some of the more militant Browncoats are looking to rise again. And they want the man who did as much as anyone to keep the battle going...
Still might write it, but not right away.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would hope that if Firefly were extended and reborn as another series, or if we are graced with another Serenity film, that we might get more from Wash and Book in flashbacks.
I nearly peed my pants when I watched the Firefly DVDs with the episode containing the flashback to Wash inspecting the bridge of Serenity with his Hawaiian shirt and cheesy mustache...
There could me many interesting flashbacks containing Book's past as well and the secrets to his very likely connection to the Alliance..
Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wow. Summer really does look lovely in that picture.
I also looked at some of the other blog entries. The one on Asians in Firefly was interesting. I'm just curious...does Kaylee look like she might have some Asian ancestry? That's what I thought when I first saw her.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Did you watch the series in order? If you did, then the first time you saw Kaylee she was wearing a very traditional Chinese dress and carrying a cute Chinese umbrella. That might explain your impression of her.
That blog belongs to an old buddy of mine from college. We went to see Serenity together last week and we argued over Inara's ethnic background. What do you guys think?
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
All in all, we very much enjoyed the movie. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Fair enough. The line itself is fairly cryptic. But Kaylee's emotions were pretty transparent when she gave that warning. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
I would love to see that.
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
