posted
I've already apologized for criticizing the site in the manner I did. If I explain anything more about my motivations or my thoughts behind doing so, I'd be trying to weasel out of my own apology.
I don't apologize for saying that I criticize his politics when I find them wrong-headed. Clearly, I find them occasionally wrong-headed; under what other circumstances would I criticize them? And clearly the fact that I disagree with his politics at times isn't a major concern. The issue there -- and the only reason I mentioned it at all -- is that OSC seems to believe that I criticize his politics (or, more accurately, his political essays) occasionally not because I think there's something wrong with them, but because I really want him to pay attention to me.
And he's wrong about that. I don't know how to make that point without ALSO saying that I find his politics wrong-headed sometimes, but I'm not exactly a wordsmith.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Not a wordsmith? But we're only one page away from you touting your own ability as a comptetent writer as being a reason why you were qualified to start the thread in the first place.
You have to see how using incindiary phrases like "wrong-headed" will be a lot less effective at communicating genuine remorse than more reserved phrases like, "that I dissagree with," or "different from what I think." Just a couple of suggestions off the top of my head.
You perpetually claim ignorance as to why people could find your posts so incidiary, but it happens so often that those of us who see it all the time are often left to the same assumption as OSC. We eventually decide it's the offense that's intentional and the ignorance that's feigned.
I admit I don't know you as well as a lot of members of this board, so I don't know many of the kind things you've done for people--but I have to admit that I've had exactly the same thoughts on this as OSC ever since all of this started way back when.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Tom, I mean this kindly because I have always liked you. Some of your posts, particularly on 'the other side' did seem to be geared specifically toward getting OSC to acknowledge you personally. I always read them picturing your face in a half self-deprecating smile, not serious, almost making fun of yourself. But I could see how it could be interpretted differently.
Paul, I sincerely hope OSC isn't reading this. It reads almost exactly like the thread you started against me years ago on the roles of men and women. If it's even a fraction as hurtful to OSC as that thread so long ago was to me, I would wish him well away. And you as well, though I was glad at your return.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I’m going to get the new IMS (Intergalactic Medicine Show) shoe that is guaranteed to increase my running time by one minute per mile
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Not a wordsmith? But we're only one page away from you touting your own ability as a comptetent writer as being a reason why you were qualified to start the thread in the first place.
I'm not sure he said that.
quote:Even when I'm critical of specific choices made in your books, I don't say "you know nothing about writing." And you know what? A perfectly valid response to any of my criticism of, say, Mack's marriage in Magic Street would be something like "Tom, you know nothing about writing. This was dramatically necessary for reasons you don't understand." And I'd have to suck it up, because, y'know, compared to you, I DO know nothing about writing. That's a body blow I'd take -- and while I'd stagger wheezing around the room, I'd be grinning at the justice of it.
But I DO know how to design webpages. I also know how to write in AP style, manage layer 3 network traffic, and make the red squiggly lines stop appearing in Microsoft Word.
posted
dockmagik I believe Tom Davidson said he was a competent webdesigner, not a competent author.
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I wish this thread would be deleted...it's probably the most "squirm-in-my-seat" thread that I have ever read in my years of lurking on this site.
I do agree with OSC, and I can understand his anger. TD has always struck me as one of those people who can twist my words so that I look even dumber than I am, and I would definitely classify him as the wolf in the fold, subtlely leading people away to be eaten. And as he does all this in such a reasonable tone, one looks all the more rash when he pisses one off and one responds in anger. 'E's done it to me more than once. This is why I lurk much more than I post, because the mere presence of TD on a thread makes me leery.
Nevertheless, I would ask that this thread be deleted.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Personally, I think that if 'wrong-headed' is incendiary, this board should be on fire by now. Worse things are slung by both sides in the tame discussions. I'm not excusing that, mind you...but it's a bit odd to have that used as an example of flagrant flaming.
Posts: 3658 | Registered: Jan 2002
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I would consider it a great tragedy if OSC stopped posting. I come here for Scott, not for anyone else - as wonderful as most people are here, I am not a part of the community. I'm just a reader who thinks that OSC's thoughts make him consider things that he never considered before.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2005
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"Paul, I sincerely hope OSC isn't reading this. It reads almost exactly like the thread you started against me years ago on the roles of men and women."
I don't even remember that thread. I'm sorry...
REst- I would feel really awful (and extraordinarily hypocritical) if I delete this thread. If anyone has posted on this thread, and wants to see it continue, I don't feel like its moral to delete the thread. Thats why I left... a thread was deleted that I felt should continue, and which I was posting on. I thought it was a terrible abuse of power by the mods, and I still do. I'm not going to do that to anyone who feels like this thread has redeeming value, who has posted on this thread.
Apparently, there IS a backstory that I don't know about, which sheds light on OSC's reaction. The moderation decision makes more sense to me. There are answers to the questions I had. So I'm done with this thread...and I'm sorry it degenerated the way it did.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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quote:wrong-head·ed adj. Stubbornly defiant of what is right or reasonable; obstinately perverse in judgment or opinion
It's simply not the language of reconciliation.
As for the "writer" part, I was specifically referring to Tom's mention of his ability to write to AP quality, not to his claim to inability as an author of fiction. The ability to write to AP quality, in my mind, suggests competence.
Sorry. Don't want to drag this out--just wanted to clarify.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
I don't want you to delete this thread because I want to make sure that Mr Card isn't going to go away for ever.
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Interesting......... Someone deleted their post about how Hatrack couldn't survive without certain people....
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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So many things to say, but why add heat if I can't add light? Tom takes criticism of himself much more personally than our host does.
There I go adding heat. Aw, who the heck cares? Tom pisses me off all of the time to the point I'd rather walk away from a subject than to argue with him about it, no matter how strongly I feel about it.
Wolf in the fold seemed an apt description, or a troll in sheep's clothing. But hey, a beloved troll for some.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Lol, Jebus you come in second place.
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Sopwith, I struggled with the same issue...heat without light. I like Tom and OSC, but think this sad thread is rather typical of Paul. Which probably shows more about me than any of the three of them. It's harder to forgive someone who doesn't think they did anything wrong. Tom at least apologized and admitted that he could have been better. Paul is only sorry for stuff he didn't do and couldn't have stopped even if he'd tried. Nice.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote: As for the "writer" part, I was specifically referring to Tom's mention of his ability to write to AP quality, not to his claim to inability as an author of fiction. The ability to write to AP quality, in my mind, suggests competence.
I should clarify that I am no longer a journalist for reasons that have quite a lot to do with my low opinion of the quality of the press. As the paragraph immediately above that statement emphasizes my belief that I do in fact know nothing about writing, and as I've said elsewhere that I don't consider myself a wordsmith, I submit that a more logical interpretation of what I've said here would be that I do not consider the ability to meet AP guidelines to be a particularly impressive skill.
I had hoped that my Microsoft Word reference two clauses later would have made this even more obvious.
----------
And guys, can I ask you to please refrain from insulting me -- or Paul, or OSC, or anyone -- on this thread, too? Because we'd probably respond in any other thread, but I feel that to do so in this thread would be ridiculously petty. While I can certainly appreciate that some people have been waiting years for the opportunity to insult me without actually having to be brave enough to face a reply, I'd still like to keep this thread free of any value judgements of that sort.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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"Paul is only sorry for stuff he didn't do and couldn't have stopped even if he'd tried. Nice."
No. You just don't understand how I use language. The implicit part of that is I should have done something different to try to steer the thread slightly differently. I accept the fault for starting this thread in such a manner that the result is the specifics of what happened. But I don't apologize for starting this thread. Why should I? I really didn't understand, and it was, and is, important to me that I understand what happened, why OSC behaved in a manner he'd never tolerate from one of us, and why he locked and stickied a thread.
"but think this sad thread is rather typical of Paul."
Because of one thread from a few years ago? Great.
Edit: Gee. Perhaps I should have waited for tom to post before starting to post. Now I look like more of an idiot Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
OSC has 189 posts on this side of the forum, at least according to the Hatrack search function. The 189th post is dated 1999. The 188th is dated late 2004 and the 187th is dated 2005.
Prior to 04, I remember when we'd throw a party every time he posted on the OSC side, because it was so rare.
quote:If you'd like me gone, drop me a line and I'll go. I'd miss the place, but I'd still buy your books.
And we'd all have to pretend not to notice the newbie named TimThomason, a shrimp boat captain from Madagascar.
This made me giggle. Actually the only thing to create a little happiness in this thread. What use is it, anyway? Tom doesn't want us to be rude with our host, so maybe we should move along. "Salt on an open wound" is a very good description of this thread.
Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Paul, please forgive me. I'm the one with the problem here, not you, so I think I'll just go attend to it and leave you alone. I'm really sorry.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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AJ, I remember that, too. I also remember how special I felt when Kristine posted something for me when I was getting married. Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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I'm so sorry Tom, should we have just started a thread to rip you and your endeavors specifically? Yanno, kinda outta the blue rip down something that's important to you?
Yanno, I'm just asking.
You're coming across like the schoolyard bully when they've been called in front of the class. You're explaining that you really didn't mean to say what you did, but your pleas are falling on quite a few ears that just aren't sympathetic to you anymore.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
This thread is no longer serving a purpose other than to galvanize both sides in their opinion of the other side. Could we just shut it down and move along...
Posts: 1480 | Registered: Dec 2004
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I WILL say this... I think someone would have to threaten my children with knives before I'd give an opinion, here, about anything of or relating to that site, Tom, our Beloved Benefactor, Paul and/or Cheeze Whiz.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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What are Cheese doodles? Are they the longer squigglier Cheeto? And why are the puffy round things, and the long squggling things both called Cheetos? They taste quite different because the surface area to volume ratios of the shapes totally changes the amount of cheese powder on them.
posted
The puffy ones taste like styrofoam peanuts, but the narrow, dense kinds are incredibly yummy. Is it the cheese powder that makes them so?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I saw something on the food network about how they're made. It was horrifying. It's little scraps of dough, fried, and then coated with some strange substance before going in the cheese cement mixer. I'll never look at Cheetos the same again.
Cheez Whiz = Bad Easy Cheese = Good
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Saw this on my image search on cheese doodles. Making me hungery......... late breakkfast since I went to the midnight showing of Serenity and sort of skipped lunch. What cheese thing can I go get....
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Well if it came to choosing cheese flavord potato chips or cheetos the potato chips would win every time. I don't terribly like the cheeto texture.
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As the paragraph immediately above that statement emphasizes my belief that I do in fact know nothing about writing, and as I've said elsewhere that I don't consider myself a wordsmith, I submit that a more logical interpretation of what I've said here would be that I do not consider the ability to meet AP guidelines to be a particularly impressive skill.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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