posted
I just read this on the rules page when I registered: You also agree that you will not use this forum to try to convert people to your own religious beliefs, or to disparage others for their own religious beliefs." I know it's probably not my place to ask, but why hasn't King of Men been kicked off here?
Here's the whole reason Heni wants to convert, as far as I know. I imagine the reason he didn't want to tell you all this is because it shows just how dysfunctional our family is.
We both grew up in America until I was 17 and Heni was 9. Last year Heni came across the LDS church and spent about 2 months going to church. In this time he made plenty of friends with other saints, including Mitch. I had already been going to Church with Heni but soon Mitch bought a house in the South of Perth asked me to come live with him. I said yes and shortly after he proposed to me. After I left, mum told Heni she didn't want him going to church anymore.
Heni often comes to visit, and when he's by himself on some sundays he comes to church with us. Now though, I've converted and am getting married in a Latter-day Saint temple. This is the reason Heni so urgently wants to become a mormon. There is no option of waiting until he is 18.
Posts: 6 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oooh. That opened more questions than it answered. So, you are saying that if he gets baptized soon he can see you get married? That's a terrible reason to get baptized, imo.
I can see why your mom is upset. It isn't logical, but I can understand it. SHE won't be able to see the wedding.
quote:There is no option of waiting until he is 18.
posted
He has to wait until he is 18 if your mother won't consent. That's the rules, and I had to abide by them too, like it or not.
And also, he couldn't attend the sealing; you have to have already gone through the Temple to attend. So this is not making sense to me.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
That's not his reason for getting baptised, that's his reason for getting baptised asap. Yes, mum was upset when I converted and she'll no doubt be when Heni does. But that's just her. Even my older brother (refer to first post) agrees she has a problem with other peoples beliefs. But let's not go into that, it's personal.
Regarding the marriage thing, I think you should talk to some actual latter-day saints regarding the whole "sacred, not secret" thing if you don't already know before you jump to any conclusions.
Posts: 6 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
And Heni still won't be able to attend the wedding-- he's only 16. So unless you postpone it until he's old enough to go to the Temple, I'm very confused as to the rushing it-- especially since going to the Temple should be because he's ready to go, not because someone else is getting married. My husband didn't attend his brother's sealing and it didn't kill him. And since I'm a convert, none of my family came to ours. We had a ring ceremony instead. So I'm still really confused.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
And anyone who hasn't received their own endowments cannot attend a sealing in the temple. Given that Heni is 16, he won't have the option of getting his own endowments until he's either going on a mission, getting married, or old enough that his bishop/branch president and stake president feel that he is stable enough in the gospel. That does not happen at 17 years old. KQ knows that quite well as she is LDS. As am I, as well as a whole lot of other folks on this forum.
The statement that there's no option of waiting for Heni to get baptized because you're getting married in the temple next year do not make sense.
If there's some other reason in there, you might like to clarify. And please don't assume that, just because we don't understand your reasoning or we disagree with it that we don't understand how rules in the LDS church work.
Edit to add: evidently, I typed this up in super-slow speed while the other two posts above mine got posted. Ah well.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Quid? Are we typing with two fingers instead of both hands? *Wink*
This I don't really get. It seems, pardon me if I offend anyone, self-centered to get baptized so that you could rush to get the proper things done to see someone Sealed.
It took me two years after I was baptized start the ball rolling for my recogmends. I have been a member since 1993, not very active, mind you, and it will be sometime before I can go into the Temple.
My point is this: Baptism should mean something to the person, something more then personal gain. The same with going to the Temple. Both are Sacred experiences and should be treated as such, and not be rushed into.
Posts: 113 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:I just read this on the rules page when I registered: You also agree that you will not use this forum to try to convert people to your own religious beliefs, or to disparage others for their own religious beliefs." I know it's probably not my place to ask, but why hasn't King of Men been kicked off here?
Just because the user's agreement says this does not mean that it, read literally, is actually a forum rule. It should be noted that a very large number of people on this forum violate this "rule" on a regular basis. Read literally, I have violated it in most religious threads I have taken part in, because I think my religious beliefs are right and will try to convince people of that whenever the topic comes up. Atheists do the same on a regular basis. Thus, it would be unfair of moderators to enforce this rule for King of Men and not ban all the rest of us. Of course, the moderators can be unfair if they so choose, but it would still nevertheless be unfair.
Having said that, I think the real rule here (or what that sentence in the code of conduct has ended up meaning) is that while arguing for the merits to believe or disbelieve a certain religious is okay, attacking a certain religion is not. For instance, it might be okay to argue that Catholic beliefs are inconsistent with certain conclusions of science, but it would be wrong to say anyone who accepts Catholic beliefs is ignorant. And while KoM may have crossed that line in certain other threads, I don't think his suggestion in this thread that Rusta "back out" of religion is really a violation of the normal Hatrack conduct.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tres, I'd also add to that that KoM's sole purpose here is not to convince everyone that there is no God. If it comes up in conversation, that's a different thing than coming here and spamming us with multiple threads with that sole purpose.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wouldn't it be fun if we all had an agenda as strong that of KoM's we constantly tried to push.
For example, I think underground music is the best music anyway and all other music should be done away with. As an argument for that i could do what KoM does and start with Christian rock on the argument that God, supposedly, does not exist.
Okay, my agendas not that great but surely you guys could do it and show KoM what it feels like.
Posts: 75 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Most of us would rather demonstrate what constructive and respectful discussion looks like. "Hey look, I can be a bigger jerk than you" is a game that no one can win because anyone who plays has already lost. As does the forum as a whole.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:I had already been going to Church with Heni but soon Mitch bought a house in the South of Perth asked me to come live with him. I said yes and shortly after he proposed to me.
This part of the story seems odd to me. Around here, Mormon couples don't live together before marriage, or, if they ARE living together out of wedlock, they would not get permission to be sealed in a temple until they had either (1) stopped cohabitating or (2) gotten married civilly and been married for a year.
Posts: 1512 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
| IP: Logged |
posted
Um, yeah, I thought so, too, but I wondered if it was the delivery of the message that was wonky . . .
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:As an argument for that i could do what KoM does and start with Christian rock on the argument that God, supposedly, does not exist.
Hmmm. Christian rock is pretty bad, but I wouldn't say that it disproves the existance of God. Now country music, on the other hand... Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Heyyyyyyyyyyyyy! Now there are some darn good country bands! My personal favorites Diamond Rio and Sawyer Brown, both of which have Church members in them.
Sorry, but I absolutely detest rap music.
Posts: 113 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
"Well, that is all still a mystery to me. Basketball players are all lds and American, and only people who sing in church are lds? But if you knew he sang like someone who sang in church, why would you assume his was an lds singing voice when you'd obviously never been in an lds church before?"
Considering some of the strange ideas out there about Mormons, the statement about basketball actually didn't surprise me. My guess is that Rusta probably new Mormon missionaries at least by reputation, and playing basketball is actually another thing Mormon missionaries, or members in general, are known for.
Inside the U.S. a person who plays basket is common and ho-hum. Outside of the United States people play baseball or more likely soccer a lot more than basketball. However, basketball is one of young U.S. Mormon's favorite past-times and therefore can easily be recognized by other young people. The singing is a probable give away as basketball players of any kind are usually not known for artistic inerests.
My point is, its a cultural and not a logical recognition. Although, I could be wrong.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
According to his profile, Heni lives in Australia. Basketball is a uniquely American pasttime, and since many LDS missionaries are from America, the church may be known, culturally, as a basketball playing, American-centric institution.
In many areas, missionaries use basketball and other sports to meet non-members and introduce them to the gospel. So it is entirely plausible to connect 'basketball-> Mormon,' especially since Heni is not in the US, and basketball is not (AFAIK) a big sport Down Under.
Also, most ward buildings that can have one have a basketball court. So, you know, the connection is kind of justified.
Heni: There may be other reasons that John didn't answer you about baptising him. He may not be worthy to perform the ordinance, and doesn't want to fess up to you about that. In any case-- don't let his reasons, whatever they may be, stand in the way of doing what is right.
You're going to meet lots of idiots, in the Church and out of the Church. Hopefully, the idiot-to-normal-person ratio in your area is low-- but I'll warn you that it may not be. Be prepared to be tolerant when others are not. Grow a nice, thick skin. Be quick to forgive, and slow to wrath.
Be Christ-like, in other words.
It sounds like you know what you should do.
EDIT: Errrm. . . posted without reading the whole thread. Take it as you like. Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Henri, having read this thread, I'm not sure what your issue is about.
It may be about this friend who might do the baptism. Now, I don't know much LDS, but I do know it's a Christian denomination. So. If you have a grudge against a neighbor, Christ says: go fix it. Don't even go to church until you've done what you can.
Now's your chance. You may not be able to make him make peace with you, but you can certainly make peace with him.
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
So, you are saying that if he gets baptized soon he can see you get married? That's a terrible reason to get baptized, imo.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
