posted
Hmm . . . what if we made a list of women who are ladies? And those who are not?
Ladies: Martha Stewart (case in point - she writes sincere, well-worded thank you notes to the people she fires on The Apprentice; Reese Witherspoon; Jodie Foster; Laura Bush (as much as I dislike her, I have no doubt that she is an utterly gracious and polite hostess) etc.
Not Ladies: Britney Spears (She walked into a gas station bathroom barefoot while she had access to shoes, she made a documentary about her love life for public viewing . . . and on and on . . .); Jenny McCarthy; all those girls on Laguna Beach (money does not a lady make) etc.
A lady is first and foremost concerned with something beyond herself. She dresses well because she enjoys it, yes, but also because it is a kind thing to do for those who see you, and because inapprorpriate dress makes others uncomfortable. She brings a hostess gift when she visits someone else's house because it gives a little something back. She writes thank you notes because she knows how wonderful it feels to know someone loved a present. She keeps her house clean and comfortable because it keeps her sane but more importantly because it makes any potential guests feel at home. When someone visits, she offers to take their coat and get them a drink or a snack. She treats people she meets in passing, especially people in the service industry with genuine friendliness.
I think some people might read all of this as insignigicant or somehow restrictive, but I think we're all looking for something of importance beyond ourselves. Behaving like a lady lets everyone around you know you care about them. Anyone who has ever worked as a waitress or behind a cash register knows how much a thank you and a smile means.
Alt, if you want specific suggestions on dress or manners or whatnot, shoot me an e-mail. I think taking dance (ballet for sure, but you could take anything from hip-hop to ballroom and see improvement) might be helpful for the graceful stuff, and it's definitely a workout. Oooh, and watch What Not to Wear.
Posts: 471 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Hmmph . . . my clean and comfortable home is apparently "too" clean - and therefore people feel uncomfortable in it. (I hear this from the people I work with - for some reason, they think my tidy house makes them look bad, and they never believe me when I say that my house also slides from time to time).
I am one of three people I know (in 36 years of life and living in lots of places in the USA) that writes thank you notes, and insists that my son do so, also.
I don't wear risque clothing, or worn and torn clothing. Nor do I wear heavy makeup, excessive jewelry, etc.
I take the time - I go out of my way - to help when and where I can.
And yet, I don't think I've ever been considered to be a lady.
Why?
I speak my mind firmly and clearly (and get labeled negative things for doing so).
I stand up to people when the stakes are important. Firmly and fearlessly (at least on the outside).
I strongly advocate for those that need advocacy, not just my family, and not just those I have a personal relationship with.
For whatever reason - these personal traits seem to land me in a category of being not very likeable, nor very comfortable (apparently) for folks to want to be around.
I dunno - no matter what I do, it's generally wrong. Or at least that's the feedback I'm receiving.
posted
FJIC, I agree riding lessons improved my posture, and my horse was pretty darn prissy too (though she was white not pink, but she insisted on always having her main in hunt braids, she'd been shown UPC for many years before I took lessons on her)
Alt, why on earth do you always want to be white glove clean, that's absolutely no fun.
My ladylike tendancies are to knit, sew, cook, enjoy reading, wear pearls, and write thank you notes, I usually do at least, and i absolutely loved the one I recieved from Mrs. M.
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posted
This is katharina, on Coccinelle's computer.
I have a How To Be A Lady story.
Catherine teaches the school-age parents, mostly mothers, and her principal is not thrilled with the program. At the beginning of the year, the principal moved her to a classroom about half the size, and took away the couch. The room where people learned about how to be a parent and make a family was turned from a nurturing living room to a cramped matrix of desks. Last week, having grown tired of the situation, Catherine moved the extra teacher's desk into the hallway, made room for the couch, and marched down to the principal's office to cooly ask for access to the flat-bed truck to get the couch back. They whined, but they did it. When the principal said something snide about how spoiled she was (classroom half the size!), she smiled and said it felt very nice for today.
I think that's perfect. Persistent, idealistic, and still polite.
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quote:Martha Stewart (case in point - she writes sincere, well-worded thank you notes to the people she fires on The Apprentice); Reese Witherspoon; Jodie Foster; Laura Bush
Jodie is the only woman on that list that I'd be interested in. There is something about Laura Bush that frustrates me immensely. She has a fine able mind, it's been blunted from years of silence, but still able. There is something stunted in her. It's like those studies that say that women learn to be quiet in school when all of the rowdy boys get all of the teachers attention. Well, she is one of those little girls all grown up. Martha Stewart is just stone cold New England cool for me. I respect her, I just can't imagine how she is anyone's idol. Reese Witherspoon is a lady? She is neither here nor there in my esteem.
Is anyone else disturbed that so many characterizations of a lady concern being well-dressed and demure.
posted
You know, I was thinking that martial arts would make you the best lady, Alt. Poise. Self-confidence. Balance. These are all the best qualities that I associate with being a lady and that the good martial arts places can give to you.
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quote:"FJIC, I agree riding lessons improved my posture, and my horse was pretty darn prissy too (though she was white not pink, but she insisted on always having her main in hunt braids, she'd been shown UPC for many years before I took lessons on her)
Alt, why on earth do you always want to be white glove clean, that's absolutely no fun.
My ladylike tendancies are to knit, sew, cook, enjoy reading, wear pearls, and write thank you notes, I usually do at least, and i absolutely loved the one I recieved from Mrs. M."
I love horses and never want to be without them in my life again. English riding is a lot harder than it looks, but it has really improved my posture and strength. Simple things such as posting and then when you get to jumping demand a lot of mental concentration and strength. Princess has been a perfect horse for me--she has that good appleoosa personality (very calm and friendly) and is the perfect height (15 hands). I have ridden my instructor's Hanoverian a few times, but I hate dismounting from it (it's over 17 hands). The first time I dismounted from her horse I fell splat on my butt. I agree about not wanting to be white glove all the time. I get so dirty after a day on the farm.
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posted
I haven't ridden much in the last couple years, school got in the way freshman year of high school, but I still agree. I rode Countess the prissy Welsh two years, then a few quarter horses, and a really nice Appy, that had all been low level englsh but with lots of "ok let's switch to western and have Jake show us some fun reining" Jake was the 1982 QH Congress Reining Champion, and the world's best begginner horse. Then I switched barns when my instructor graduated college and moved away, and my new barn was more focused on Dressage, which was fun, sitting the trot on a huge Belgian Warmblood is harder than posting it. At that barn I also rode an old arab gelding who knew I wasn't as smart as him, so would change his mind on me.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I think ElJay qualifies as a lady under Kat's parameters. Kat's definition of lady is the only one I actually like.
Ladies have been percieved to be ornamental window dressing in medieval times and recast that way again in Victorian times.
However to be that kind of "lady" you have to be financially secure. And it takes years to get good at it, to devote yourself to the art of posture, sewing a fine seam, napkin folding, the unspoken messages in flower arrangements etc. you have to have vast amounds of time available. And then during the time you have to be willing to devote yourself to it completely, and immerse your entire life in the concept. It's actually work to rise to the level that is worthy of that definition of social "lady".
Martha Stewart is good at a lot of that stuff, because other people didn't want really to do it themselves and paid her to cater for them! By the social definition she's a lady.
However, I think the Progressives, especially redefined the concept. Florence herself was partially responsible. They exhibited compassion and friendship with those outside their wealthy social class.
The modern definition, I like is Kat's. It turns being a lady into being a laudable worthy goal, instead of being strictly ornamental (even if being strictly ornamental is a heck of a lot of work) However the two definitions exist side by side in society today.
Was Katharine Hepburn a lady? If you can answer that, then you've set your definition lady for yourself.
quote:"I haven't ridden much in the last couple years, school got in the way freshman year of high school, but I still agree. I rode Countess the prissy Welsh two years, then a few quarter horses, and a really nice Appy, that had all been low level englsh but with lots of "ok let's switch to western and have Jake show us some fun reining" Jake was the 1982 QH Congress Reining Champion, and the world's best begginner horse. Then I switched barns when my instructor graduated college and moved away, and my new barn was more focused on Dressage, which was fun, sitting the trot on a huge Belgian Warmblood is harder than posting it. At that barn I also rode an old arab gelding who knew I wasn't as smart as him, so would change his mind on me."
Glad to meet another rider on Ornery. My current instructor is great...she is a retired civil servant and works with me a for a good 4 hours a week. She's tough, but laid back enough to where I can just stop by whenever and help her out on the farm. As much as I like looking at Arabs and Warmblood horses, I love the personalities/temperment of Quarter horses and Apps. Haven't gotten into Dressage yet--that's more advanced than where I'm at...or at least my instructor just wants me to stick with jumpers for now. Lol, my fund for grad. school has turned into my horse hobby fund. Can't say that I regret it though...it's kept me relatively sane this year. Posts: 57 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
My instructor thought it was better to work on dressage, then jumping, and that just never happend. I like most arabs in personality, but Naavar behaved about like Mr Burns on the Simpsons. Even though it's been 4 years since I've ridden regularly, I still go watch as many horse shows as I can, which is pretty often because I'm not that far from Louisville and Columbus OH, where lots of breeds have nationals.
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posted
Ditto with the riding lessons improving one's posture, along with being much fun.
The downside is that they're freaking expensive, so I don't know that Alt could implement that one as easily. Dance classes would be really good too, as others have mentioned. Alt, you're in college now, right? They might have dance something available through your school - if not actual classes, then maybe an extracurricular club or something. I had the greatest posture improvement in jazz, but ballet would probably have been the top improver if I weren't so non-flexible.
(I'm also a used-to-ride rider, had to stop my freshman year of high school for much the same reasons as Breyerchic. I was an English-only rider - I've only ridden western a few times. Taking lessons again is a longstanding goal of mine, but little things like no money keep getting in the way. )
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I agree very much with what Kat and Mrs. M have said. I think being a lady has a lot to do with consideration for other people. With respecting others and with having respect for yourself.
My grandmother was a southern belle who attended finishing school. She was always after me to do things like send out thank you notes no more than a week after receiving a gift, she taught me the differences between a bridal tea and a bridal shower and what to wear to each one. She taught me how to sit, how to cross my legs (demurely at the ankles) and to address people as "Sir" and "Ma'am"
But none of those things make me a lady and didn't make her one. What made her a lady was the way she would cook dinner and take it to an ailing friend who had just returned from the hospital. It was the way she was always volunteering her time at church and in her community. The teachings I got from her that were most valuable was to love my neighbor and that family always stands by each other. I learned how to care for people less fortunate than me and how to never think I was better than anyone else because of my skin color, or my income, or my clothes, or my "breeding" such as it was. While at the same time she taught me to respect the past I came from and to understand my heritage. I believe she was a true southern lady, who personified southern charm and grace and hospitality.
And now that I'm reminded of her, I realize that I have not yet mailed thank you notes for people who sent me flowers in the hospital. :0
quote:Was Katharine Hepburn a lady? If you can answer that, then you've set your definition lady for yourself.
The thing is, if I had to choose beween Katharine Hepburn in the Forties and Sarah Silverman now, I don't know what I would do, I'm like Jesus, I love them all. Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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My current instructor is great...she is a retired civil servant and works with me a for a good 4 hours a week. She's tough, but laid back enough to where I can just stop by whenever and help her out on the farm. As much as I like looking at Arabs and Warmblood horses, I love the personalities/temperment of Quarter horses and Apps. Haven't gotten into Dressage yet--that's more advanced than where I'm at...or at least my instructor just wants me to stick with jumpers for now. Lol, my fund for grad. school has turned into my horse hobby fund. Can't say that I regret it though...it's kept me relatively sane this year. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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