posted
I just wonder, what could he have been thinking? And how could he have let it affect him so much? And how did he get through his mission without getting sworn at? I had little kids coming up to me and saying "F*** you!" Missionaries get sworn at all the time.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Too much sensitivity these days. I tend to comprimise with people, but there is usually an end goal I have in mind that is to my advantage. I can't...nevermind.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
When you come home from your mission, you're weird. It's a well known fact that there's a needed period of adjustment. If he wasn't out of his yet, taking a stand by leaving the car may have seemed like a good thing to do-- and he forgot that getting out of a moving car hurts. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
He also quite likely had no idea it would kill him. People in movies jump out of moving cars and roll across the pavement and are fine, maybe a couple of scratches. Sad.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I know this sounds callous, but my first thought was:
"Well, I guess he made his point."
kq makes a good point. Sometimes people undergoing transformational experiences aren't necessarily safe or conforming to the world's definition of "sane" immediately after the experience.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Usually when I hear about this level of idiocy, I figure that liquor is involved. But I guess not, seeing that he is an LDS missionary. Just innate idiocy, then, I guess.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Could have been nothing more than he grabbed the door handle intending to make a point, leaned too hard, lost his balance, and fell out the unexpectedly open door.
One of our Hatrackers jumped out of a moving car, to avoid getting squirted with water in a live action version of a "mafia game". Admitttedly, the car was moving slowly at the time, but... Sometimes the reflex is just wrong. Falling under the wheels of a slow-moving car ain't gonna result in a pleasant experience.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
The problem is ya don't know what the effective wind is except in relation to the real windspeed&direction, which we don't know.
He could have intended to make his point by opening the car door, met unexpected wind resistance, leaned harder, and fell out. Or it could have been a truck with "suicide doors"; ie doors with hinges on the back edge rather than the front edge. Or a backward sliding door, or a rear door. Often folks use 'truck' as a generic term including vans and SUVs.
The story just doesn't give enough details for me to reach the conclusion that the death resulted from a purposeful jump.
posted
I keep thinking how awful the brother must feel.
I don't think he bears any more responsibility than someone saying "go jump off a cliff" would if the person actually did it, but still, he must be devestated.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by aspectre: Could have been nothing more than he grabbed the door handle intending to make a point, leaned too hard, lost his balance, and fell out the unexpectedly open door.
Seat belts save lives, people.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
When it comes to deciding whether a death came via accident or through a deliberate action, mere 'likely'hood isn't a good basis for reaching a 'worse case scenario' conclusion. Any meaningful doubt should lead to a conclusion which will do the least harm to those who loved the victim in life.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I was just about to comment on the seat belts, as well. I don't know about elsewhere, but here and most other places in North America, I thought, they are mandatory, and if he is that stringent about swearing, I'm fairly sure he would not be breaking a law like that.
Posts: 1158 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I don't see why there would be a definite corrolation between clean language and seat belt use. I've actually heard someone say "Put on your seat belt right now, D*** it!"
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
That's because you do not understand what happened.
Using clean language and following the law are both something someone striving to be clean and obedient would do.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
If someone is messed up enough to jump out of a moving car, I doubt you could put them in the "healthily striving to be clean and obedient" column. Without qaulifying it with "healthily", I don't think that the first part of your statement follows.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
You added the "healthily" part. It's easy to counter statements you make up. And your second sentence is your normal nonsense.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Kat, along the “not understanding what happened” line . . . using clean language I get, but is there something in LDS teaching about not even being in the presence of people swearing? I mean, how does it compromise him that someone else in the truck was swearing?
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
There is no such teaching. I can understand being uncomfortable with his brothers swearing and even asking them to stop, but he went way overboard with his objection. That was just plain dumb, IMO.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote: One of our Hatrackers jumped out of a moving car, to avoid getting squirted with water in a live action version of a "mafia game". Admitttedly, the car was moving slowly at the time, but... Sometimes the reflex is just wrong. Falling under the wheels of a slow-moving car ain't gonna result in a pleasant experience.
At my defense, I did say "stop the car", she stopped the car, then hit the gas again. However, you are correct- no matter how slow the car goes, the weight isn't going to be any lighter.
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I think the "fell out by accident" is a convenient fiction that I could endorse were I thinking of the family (especially the brothers) and their feelings as "guilty" survivors of this horrid event.
As a group of people who send young people out to undergo the transformational experience, I would advise a less rosey picture of it all.
In this country, we have only recently begun to deal with the idea the post-traumatic stress might be a real problem faced by our enlisted men and women coming home and adjusting to a regular life after spending time in combat zones.
I don't assert to know anything about LDS mission trips, so please don't take this as anything more than speculation. But it seems that people here are reporting that some people return home from mission trips with a level of (what to call it? zeal, fervor, belief, just "difference") as to cause concern in their close relatives, at least for a period of adjustment.
It's to be expected, honestly.
But if this sort of thing weren't just a strange fluke, but were looking like part of a pattern, then there'd be some real cause for concern in how people are doing mentally during and immediately after their mission trips.
I'm a bit uncomfortable raising this point here on Hatrack, but I did want to address aspectre's point at least to the level of agreeing that it's a good way to work in the family, but a potentially dangerous way to work on the issue overall. If (and that's a BIG "if") there really is an issue.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Anybody who returns from any kind of extended, focused service like that is bound to have some adjustment time back to “real life.” I imagine it’s the same with returning from a military tour of duty, an immersion program at school, a service program, or even a prison term.
I would say that recently returned missionaries tend to be very straight-arrow for a while until they learn to relax again. But certainly not to the point where they can’t deal with society. This is the first time I’ve heard of anything like this happening. Definitely not the norm.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: When you come home from your mission, you're weird. It's a well known fact that there's a needed period of adjustment. If he wasn't out of his yet, taking a stand by leaving the car may have seemed like a good thing to do-- and he forgot that getting out of a moving car hurts.
It seems to me that if going on a mission has the effect of making it seem like dying is preferable to listening to someone cuss, perhaps the church should have some kind of obligation to help facilitate the transition back to real life. Because leaving a moving car because someone is cussing just does not seem like a mentally healthy thing to contemplate.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I don't think there is enough information to justify hashing out the motivations of someone who'd jump out of a moving car, except in the most theoretical way. My first reaction was, "How does anyone know he jumped?" The dead guy certainly can't admit it.
What if he was getting on his brothers' nerves and he got pushed out? I can see that happening, not with intent to kill, but just as an impulse thing. I can also see "he jumped out" as an easy cover-up seeing as no one is there to deny it.
Now, I'm not saying there's any more evidence for this scenario than the one reported in the article. But I don't see any less evidence for it, either. Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: When you come home from your mission, you're weird. It's a well known fact that there's a needed period of adjustment. If he wasn't out of his yet, taking a stand by leaving the car may have seemed like a good thing to do-- and he forgot that getting out of a moving car hurts.
It seems to me that if going on a mission has the effect of making it seem like dying is preferable to listening to someone cuss, perhaps the church should have some kind of obligation to help facilitate the transition back to real life. Because leaving a moving car because someone is cussing just does not seem like a mentally healthy thing to contemplate.
[/invisible] Like I said, the transition isn't hard for most returned missionaries. This guy had his own unrelated issues.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Well, he certainly did get his point across. And I have heard of people doing more dramatic things for worse reasons. That being said, I'm glad my friend took a different approach in curbing my tendency to curse. It's entirely likely he just didn't think through the consequences of his actions. Nooooo, that never happens.
Posts: 880 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I didn't mean that he thought he would get hurt, btw. Maybe he wasn't sure how fast the car was moving, etc., etc. But in any case, we have been taught that we should take a stand against swearing, and who knows what was going through his mind. I feel really bad for everyone involved, and I know that the brother is going to feel bad about this for the rest of his life. Poor people.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Drats. Too slow. Yep, this has been changed. ketchupqueen jumped between my original posting and the straight line.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by KarlEd: My first reaction was, "How does anyone know he jumped?" The dead guy certainly can't admit it.
What if he was getting on his brothers' nerves and he got pushed out? I can see that happening, not with intent to kill, but just as an impulse thing. I can also see "he jumped out" as an easy cover-up seeing as no one is there to deny it.
This was my first reaction too. How do we know this guy jumped? If he did, how do we know it was becuse his brother was swearing? This story is fantastic enough to deserve scepticism.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Yup - the auto manufacturer should have had an engineer design a failsafe so that the car door couldn't be opened unless the car stopped moving... And ground mounted air bags, as a secondary measure. That's who is to blame here - the auto manufacturer engineers!
Posts: 880 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
No the people to blame are the people to made the road so hard. If it hadn't have been so hard then he wouldn't have been hurt hitting it so hard.
But seriously folks, this is really tragic.
Now assuming that what was clamed to have happened actually happened the only fault is the person that died. He made a choice. That choice was to be offended by other people’s actions. In effect he gave up control over his life to other people. That is the most tragic part about it.
Posts: 527 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Wasn't trying to trivialize it. I'd prefer to believe he made a stand for what he believes. It may have had different consequences than he had planned or even realized, but I would much rather believe that than he was tragically stupid or his friends killed him and covered it up.
Posts: 880 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I'm less than inclined to judge this event based on facts presented in one news article. It sounds a bit too sensationalist to me.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote: I'm less than inclined to judge this event based on facts presented in one news article. It sounds a bit too sensationalist to me.
Yep, that's why the "nevermind" comment I made earlier. However, if it is true, then definately too sensitive.
But then my friend Ben and I have told stories that literally made people gag. So maybe I'm not sensitive enough.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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