posted
Some Christians are mad at companies and governments when they replace the word Christmas with the word Holidays. To them it is an attempt at lessening the importance of Christmas, and Christ, in American culture, government, and business.
They complain that it hurts no one to be wished a Merry Christmas. Even if they are not Christian, they should accept the wish in the spirit it was given.
However, by removing Christmas from this standard token useage, it will push Christ out of the holiday.
They usually argue, if a Christian wishes a non-Christian a Merry Christmas than what harm is done to that non-Christian?
But what about the Non-Christians who work at those stores. Is it not a bit false, does it not weaken the word Christmas, to have non-believers wishing it upon everyone they meet. If Belle or Dagone wishes me a "Merry Christmas" I know the depth of meaning that they have for that word. If Star-Lisa, Rivka, Storm Saxon wishes me a "Merry Christmas" aren't they really stealing they Christ out of Christmas?
And if you are head of personel at a large corporation of thousands of stores, should you force your employees, Christian and Non-Christian alike, to utter a phrase which has deep signifigance for some, and none for others?
The threat to Christ in Christmas is not that more sales-people are saying Happy Holidays, but that for too long, too many people have said Merry Christmas who did not truly believe in Christmas. They drug the phrase out of the temple and into the money-changers. With repeated formulaic useage, they turned it into a sales phrase, not a blessing. They, who wish it without meaning, are much more of a danger than those who do not say it at all.
Put the sanctity back in Christmas, don't let them wish you a generic merry Christmas. Save the Holidays for the stores, but if you truly believe, wish them a deep heart felt true Christmas in return.
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posted
As an aside, I'm not sure how I'd feel if I offered a heartfelt "Happy Holidays," careful to keep Christ out of it, only to have someone lean forward, their eyes narrowed, to spitefully hiss "Merry Christ-mas" at me. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I like the point that by turning it into a sales pitch is really the worst thing that could happen to the holiday.
Thankfully, I've never been forced at my job to say Merry Christmas. It may be my holiday of choice, and my favorite of the year, but I always wish people "Happy Holidays" because its a phrase the celebrates goodwill to ALL men. I've been yelled at quite a few times by old ladies and men who wished me a Merry Christmas and would refuse to leave my counter until I wished them a Merry Christmas as well. If I weren't getting a new job where I need to lay low to set a good first impression, I would be wishing people "Happy Kwanzaa" just to get some reaction.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:They, who wish it without meaning, are much more of a danger than those who do not say it at all.
Put the sanctity back in Christmas, don't let them wish you a generic merry Christmas.
With all due respect, I find that attitude insufferably elitist. I am not a Christian, but I celebrate and love Christmas. Why should I be charged with cheapening someone else's religious convictions by merely uttering the ritual phrase of greeting for a holiday that I celebrate?
And even if I didn't celebrate it, how could it hurt you? Does it offend a Jew if you wish them a Happy Hannukah? Where's the harm in extending to someone the greeting that goes with their holiday in recognition of the fact that you know it is time for their holiday?
And I would remind everyone who complains about taking the Christ out of Christmas that he was not actually there to begin with. There are a lot of people here with more knowledge of the scriptures than I have who could explain to anyone who cares exactly how we know Jesus wasn't born in December. But I would add to that the fact that the reason we have Christmas in December is that the early Church found it couldn't abolish the pagan Saturnalia without enraging the Roman populace, so they Christianized it in order to allow people their holiday.
I celebrate Christmas because it is part of my culture. I call it Christmas because that is what it is called. I suppose I could say "Io, Saturnalia!" instead of "Merry Christmas", but who would know or care what that meant? We don't call it that anymore. I could insist on calling it "Yule", but then I'd risk having people think I was a neo-pagan. I could call it "Solstice", but that would be the same risk and would be inaccurate. I could say "Merry Day-After-The-Day-After-The-Birthday-Of-The-Current-Emperor-Of-Japan", but who has the time for that crap?
"Merry Christmas" is part of our culture. And frankly, it's a part of our culture that I am proud of and am heartily sick of seeing under attack.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Well, I actually don't use Merry Christmas unless I'm fairly sure there is no one of another faith or a person of no faith around. In the stores, if someone wishes me Merry Christmas I will respond with a Merry Christmas of my own. If they say Happy Holidays then I say the same back.
The truth is, there is more than one holiday this time of year. It hurts me, as a Christian, not at all to keep that in mind. Now, some of the efforts go too far. Calling trees "Holiday trees" is a little much, the tree is a symbol that has long been linked with the celebration of Christmas, regardless of how it began it's now culturally a Christmas tree. But the holiday time around the end of December is not simply used for Christians to celebrate the birth of Christ. I do celebrate that, but I wish everyone joy in the season, regardless of their faith or lack thereof, because I want to share my joy. I do have that command about loving my neighbors after all, and if my neighbors are Jewish then I will respect them and wish them Happy Holidays or Happy Hanukkah.
Personally, I love the colors of Hanukkah. The silver and blue and white is much more pleasing to the eye than red and green. When my kids school had a fundraiser and sold wrapping paper I was tempted to buy some Hanukkah paper just because it was so lovely!
Oh, and Merry Christmas Dan. That was definitely a heart felt sentiment not meant to offend. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Verily, if you believe in Christmas an important cultural holiday, then by all means you should feel free to wish people a "Merry Christmas."
I took the point of the argument as saying that people should be free to wish "Merry Christmas" if that's what they believe or celebrate, but we shouldn't force anyone to say it, and those who do celebrate shouldn't throw a tantrum because someone wished them "Happy Holidays" instead.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I wish we could take the Christ out of Christmas. In a secular sense, not in a religious one. I mean it's just such a fun holiday. And all the good stuff, the feasting, the familiy, the tree and decorations, the gift giving, etc. are originally pagan anyway. I wish I could participate and share in these celebrations (and hey the same thing is true for Easter too, both that the pagan parts are the good ones and I wish it had wider acceptance) without the strong Christian overtones.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Frankly, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that the Christmas that is celebrated in the society at large has nothing to do with the Christian meaning of the holiday. It annoys me that people are trying to replace the word Christmas with "Holidays" because it is consciously anti-christian, but hey, there is already almost no Christian content. The only authentically Christian holiday that we have left is Good Friday. And perhaps Thanksgiving, but even that is debateable.
Perhaps we should start celebrating the birth of Christ at the same time as the Eastern Orthodox church, I believe somewhere around January 8th. Then we wouldn't be competing with what is essentially a pagan holiday.
However, in the meantime, I will continue to wish a heartfelt Merry Christmas to everyone and anyone.
Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2004
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"Holidays" isn't anti-Christian, its pro-inclusion. And I just because some people celebrate Christmas secularly doesn't mean its lost all its significance to those of faith.
I think its interesting that you consider Thanksgiving to be Christian. First time I've heard that.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Thanksgiving is not a Christian holiday. It's an American version of the harvest feasts that many cultures around the world have celebrated since the dawn of man. True, the first Americans to celebrate it were Christians. But so were the first Americans to celebrate Independence Day, and no one has ever called that a Christian holiday.
As for the phrase "Happy Holidays", I have no issue with it in and of itself. It's when people act as though we must all use it exclusively, eschewing the word "Christmas" at all, that I get annoyed. I understand that many people in this culture don't celebrate Christmas. I'm fine with that. But most of us do, and it's time to stop pretending that we are trying to oppress everyone else and force everyone to adopt the same holiday practices we have.
Christmas is an important part of my culture, and trying to deny me my "Merry Christmas" on the grounds that I'm not a Christian, or you're not a Christian, or some theoretical person who may or may not be within earshot is not a Christian is much closer to oppression than my saying it to you in the first place. Just accept it with the goodwill with which it was intended, and shut up.
I myself don't celebrate Cinco de Mayo, but I would be regarded as the worst kind of monster if I went up to someone else and said they weren't allowed to celebrate it themselves because it offends me as a non-Mexican.
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Veriyl, But there's a significant contingent of people who are actively trying to force Christianity on everyone else and we also have a long history of treating non-Christians as second-class citizens at best. It's not like people are getting upset with no basis here. Even the uproar about people make it a standard practice to use an inclusive holiday greeting shows that there is something to be concerned about. As I've said across a whole bunch of cases, Christianity is not de facto being attacked by removing it from its priviledged place and setting it on equal footing with all other religions.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Shanna: "Holidays" isn't anti-Christian, its pro-inclusion. And I just because some people celebrate Christmas secularly doesn't mean its lost all its significance to those of faith.
I think its interesting that you consider Thanksgiving to be Christian. First time I've heard that.
Well, I don't know about American thanksgiving, but the Act of Parliament that created Thanksgiving Day in Canada described it as "A Day of Thanksgiving to Almighty God." Sure, it's a harvest holiday. It was also a Christian one originally. Like I said, it's debateable now.
Oh, and pro-inclusion? In many cases, that's newspeak for anti-christian, or anti-western, or whatever. How about renaming Ramadan "The Annual Day of Fasting" so that non-Muslims don't feel left out? Or Hannukah could be called "The Candle Holiday". Or whatever. It's ridiculous.
But like I also said, it's a little too late to be griping about these things, because the de-christianizing of Christmas started well before the de-christianizing of its name. It is now a pagan (or secular, if you prefer, it's all the same to me) holiday. Let the pagans have their Christmas, and then we can have ours, without all the fluff.
Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2004
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The "Christmas" that is celbrated in the stores, centered around jingle bells, Santa, reindeer, snowmen, holly and mistletoe, is very different from from the Christmas that I celebrate, which is mainly concerned with family and the rememberance of the birht of Jesus Christ. In fact, they are so different that almost the only thing they have in common is the name and the date. As such is doesn't really bother me that they stop using the word "Christmas".
It does not bother me to be wished "Happy Holidays", but in my mind it just translates to "Merry Christmas". I don't even notice when one is said instead of the other.
I believe that the push toward "Happy Holidays" is part motivated by inclusionary ideals by some, but by others it is anti-christian. I don't let it bother me either way. They can't take my Christmas away, and I wouldn't mind if they managed to take away the Coca-Cola "Christmans".
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:But there's a significant contingent of people who are actively trying to force Christianity on everyone else and we also have a long history of treating non-Christians as second-class citizens at best.
I think you are overstating the situation by using the word "force".
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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The number of Christians who still treat non-Christians as second-class citizens is not nearly as large as the number of members of the Church of Political Correctness who treat non-members as second-class citizens. I will not give into their tyranny by pretending that Christmas--and Christianity itself!--is not an important part of my culture and historical roots. I myself am not Christian, but that doesn't mean I've forgotten that I came from Christians, and that my culture was forged by Christians.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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dh, You really dont get it, do you? When people are saying "wish people Happy Holidays." they are including all the people who celebrate holidays other than Christmas. There is no renaming of Christmas. "Happy Holidays" is not renaming Christmass to something else. It's including all the other holidays too. So, instead of saying "The ony holiday that we endorse is Christmas." they are saying "Whichever of the holidays you celebrate (which also includes Christmas), have a good one."
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Well, how? I can't remember the last time I saw people running around with nightsticks beating people up for saying "Merry Christmas." Who is saying you can't celebrate Christmas and its personal importance for you?
I think Porteiro has it right that "Happy Holidays" isn't going to force anyone to forsake their Christian heritage.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
No one is stopping you from celebrating Christmas. Nor is nearly anyone telling you to ignore the christian history of our various countries.
The personal sphere is very different from the public one. What you do in your personal sphere is your business. The problem comes in when you try to force things into the public sphere (like endorsement of a particular religion) that don't belong there, thus making a place where all should be included the property of one group.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I'm not endorsing Christianity when I say "Merry Christmas". Like I've said numerous times, I am not a Christian. I do not endorse any religion, because I do not follow any religion. My use of the phrase "Merry Christmas" is not an endorsement of religion, it is a set phrase used as a ritual greeting for a holiday that happens to be one of the most important holidays of my culture. If you tell me I can't say "Merry Christmas" in public, you are telling me to keep my culture private. And I refuse to do that.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Cause I'm curious, what is your culture? What's Christmas' significance if not a religious one?
And no one is saying people should be banned from saying "Merry Christmas" in public. Just like they shouldn't be banned for saying "Happy Holidays" if that's in their hearts.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I'm not telling you as an individual not to say that, although I will note that saying it to people who don't celebrate the holiday can be considered a little rude. I'm saying that it's not something the government should be promoting.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Personally, I am deeply, deeply offended by the concept of 'holidays'. As an atheist, I resent being told that any particular day is more 'holy' than another. It's just a day, ok? Don't push your fake beliefs in some religious pseudo-concept of 'holyness' on me; I'll have none of it. You'll wish me a happy week off, or be the worse for it. Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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As an interesting aside to the debate here: The company I worked at 2 christmasses ago had gotten very paranoid about political correctness. In previous years most teams had setup "Secret Santa" gift exchanges (with voluntary participation, you had the option of joining or not). That year a memo went out to all the supervisors that they couldn't call it "Secret Santa" if they wanted to do that, but they could have a "Winter Gift Exchange." We all thought this was pretty stupid, but could at least see where they were coming from. Even though it was a mandatory thing, since the supervisors organized the exchange it could be seen as officially sanctioned by the company, etc etc.
That's not the dumb part. The dumb part is that at the same time there was a salvation army christmas tree in the breakroom where everybody who donated would get their name put on a little cardboard angel ornament hanging on the tree. Call me crazy, but aren't ANGELS a bit more overtly religious than Santa Claus?
posted
Er - it was clear that this was a joke intended to show the ridiculousness of quarreling over a totally secular holiday like Christmas, right?
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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American. Specifically, European-American. Even more specifically, Anglo-American, in that my ancestors came to this country from England before this even was a country.
quote:What's Christmas' significance if not a religious one?
It's cultural. It's a part of American culture. It's a part of Western culture. I don't see why this is so hard for people to understand. In this era, when diversity means we all have to do everything differently from everybody else--instead of what it originally meant, and in my opinion should mean, that we all form a single culture borrowing the best from everybody*--Christmas is one of the few celebrations left that Americans can have just because it's there. Because it's fun. Because we love it. Christmas is only a religious holiday insofar as individual Christians wish to keep it so. But when I celebrate Christmas, I am not celebrating the birth of Jesus--which, again, did not happen anywhere on the calendar near Christmas anyway.
(*Edit: I really should clarify that, as it's bound to be misunderstood. I don't mean I think we should all do things the same. We should not all be forced to observe the same things. I'm just frustrated that political correctness has taken this country over to the point where we can't even have nationwide things anymore because to do so would be "exclusionary". I don't feel that it would be, and I wish we had more holidays that we could all get into as a nation instead of splitting off into our little ethnic groups and doing everything that way.)
I'll remind everyone again that the only reason we call it "Christmas" instead of "Saturnalia" is that the Church wanted to discourage the Saturnalia festivals, which they saw as debauched, but which they could not simply ban because of the massive public outcry it would cause. So they declared that the Roman people could still have their huge December holiday, but now it was to be called "Christmas" and it was to be a festival of peace and piety instead of drinking and sex.
That's how long this has been around, folks. Christmas pre-dates Christ. A good number of the actual traditions have nothing to do with Christianity, but are taken directly from the Roman Saturnalia and the Germanic Yule. Unlike many of the holy days of the Christian calendar, it did not originate as a Christian holiday. It, like Easter, was a blend of Christian and pagan rites that was embedded in Western cultures before Christianity ever took over. Given, then, that Christmas is such a long-standing and important part of Western culture, why should anyone begrudge us our celebrations of it--or even just our use of its ritual greeting phrase in public--merely because Christianity itself is not as universal in this culture as it once was? For some of us, it was never a Christian holiday to begin with.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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American. Specifically, European-American. Even more specifically, Anglo-American, in that my ancestors came to this country from England before this even was a country.
quote:What's Christmas' significance if not a religious one?
It's cultural. It's a part of American culture. It's a part of Western culture. I don't see why this is so hard for people to understand. In this era, when diversity means we all have to do everything differently from everybody else--instead of what it originally meant, and in my opinion should mean, that we all form a single culture borrowing the best from everybody--Christmas is one of the few celebrations left that Americans can have just because it's there. Because it's fun. Because we love it. Christmas is only a religious holiday insofar as individual Christians wish to keep it so. But when I celebrate Christmas, I am not celebrating the birth of Jesus--which, again, did not happen anywhere on the calendar near Christmas anyway.
I'll remind everyone again that the only reason we call it "Christmas" instead of "Saturnalia" is that the Church wanted to discourage the Saturnalia festivals, which they saw as debauched, but which they could not simply ban because of the massive public outcry it would cause. So they declared that the Roman people could still have their huge December holiday, but now it was to be called "Christmas" and it was to be a festival of peace and piety instead of drinking and sex.
That's how long this has been around, folks. Christmas pre-dates Christ. A good number of the actual traditions have nothing to do with Christianity, but are taken directly from the Roman Saturnalia and the Germanic Yule. Unlike many of the holy days of the Christian calendar, it did not originate as a Christian holiday. It, like Easter, was a blend of Christian and pagan rites that was embedded in Western cultures before Christianity ever took over. Given, then, that Christmas is such a long-standing and important part of Western culture, why should anyone begrudge us our celebrations of it--or even just our use of its ritual greeting phrase in public--merely because Christianity itself is not as universal in this culture as it once was? For some of us, it was never a Christian holiday to begin with.
Which is why I was saying that it's probably better to stop giving December 25th any pretense of being a Christian Christmas and simply let it revert to being a pagan holiday. We can celebrate the birth of Christ anytime. Same goes for Easter.
Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:1. We keep the old word, 'jul', for the holiday. No Christian connotations.
See, if we could have done that, this would all be so much easier. If we could have kept the name "Yule" from the Germanic originators of the English language, or "Saturnalia" from the Romans, then this wouldn't even be an argument. Unfortunately, those words aren't available to me because "Yule" would make me sound like a neo-pagan, and "Saturnalia" wouldn't even be understood except by Rome enthusiasts.
quote:2. We don't get our panties in a twist about totally irrelevant issues.
What, there's no political correctness in Norway?
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
You know, my favorite holiday phrase has always been "Season's Greetings!"
When i decided i wanted to be more secular with my Christmas cards (hypocrisy acknowledge and enjoyed ) That's what I would write instead of "Merry Christmas" when i signed them. I thought that was the most non-religious thing I could write.
Plus, I always loved that part in Santa Claus: The Movie where the roof opens at the north pole and all the snow comes tumbling in and they call it "Seasons Greetings" Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:2. We don't get our panties in a twist about totally irrelevant issues.
What, there's no political correctness in Norway?
Well, I wouldn't go quite that far, but there certainly isn't the hysteria about it that you get here.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
While that is certainly true, I don't see how it applies here. What could be more irrelevant than the label we attach to some particular sequence of days?
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:In the Scandinavian Germanic languages, the term Jul covers both Yule and Christmas, and is also occasionally used to denote other holidays in December, e.g., "jødisk jul" or "judisk jul" for Hanukkah.
Is that true, KoM? What an interesting approach that would be. We could all just wish each other a Happy Yule, and let each individual decide for themselves whether it means the Christian Yule, the Jewish Yule, the African-American Yule, the Neo-Pagan Yule, or the Secular Yule. Controversial, but perhaps not without its merits?
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Verily, Christmas is not a nationwide thing. It's nowhere close. There is a siginificant section of the populace who definitely do not celebrate Christmas. It's the idea that "Everybody who is a real American celebrates Christams." that makes up the majority why people find it offensive.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: While that is certainly true, I don't see how it applies here. What could be more irrelevant than the label we attach to some particular sequence of days?
At the very least, it relieves monotony.
But that is a rather personal thing. "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." --Romans 14:5
Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Verily the Younger: Just found this on Wikipedia:
quote:In the Scandinavian Germanic languages, the term Jul covers both Yule and Christmas, and is also occasionally used to denote other holidays in December, e.g., "jødisk jul" or "judisk jul" for Hanukkah.
Is that true, KoM? What an interesting approach that would be. We could all just wish each other a Happy Yule, and let each individual decide for themselves whether it means the Christian Yule, the Jewish Yule, the African-American Yule, the Neo-Pagan Yule, or the Secular Yule. Controversial, but perhaps not without its merits?
I must say I have never heard the expression, but then, it's not as though Norway has a lot of Jews anyway. Perhaps they are thinking of Denmark or Sweden? The closest I've heard to this would be 'russe-jul', Russian Christmas, which because of the Gregorian calendar falls thirteen days after ours.
Edit : OK, this was in response to the 'jødisk jul', Jewish Christmas, thing. As for the old tradition of Yule, I suspect the Aesirtru would call it 'juleblot', Yule-Blood (though I also suspect they rarely sacrifice even a horse to Odin these days, much less a man), to distinguish what they are doing from the Christian version.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:I must say I have never heard the expression, but then, it's not as though Norway has a lot of Jews anyway. Perhaps they are thinking of Denmark or Sweden?
Quite possibly. They weren't specific, so "Scandinavian Germanic languages" could have meant Swedish or Danish or Icelandic. Or, alternatively, it could just be wrong. This is Wikipedia, after all.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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I just don't understand how "Merry Christmas" is offensive, and "Happy Hannukah" or "Happy Kwanzaa" is not. How does that work? Does the fact that Christianity is the majority religion in the United States make it offensive to celebrate while minority religions are just hunky dory? If you're going to whack one, whack them all, don't discriminate against one religion.
Ah well, here's to the ACLU: "We don't hate religion, we just hate Christianity!"
What also doesn't make sense to me is the retailers and the politicians who try not to use it. To me, it seems like it's killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. Christmas season is the biggest retail season for stores (and not because of Kwanzaa), and Christianity is the majority religion - even if many don't pay more than lip service - and that's a lot of shoppers and a lot of voters. Why would they want to lose shoppers or votes? It just doesn't make sense.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tern, that's because politicians and retailers both understand that saying "Happy Holidays" isn't at all squelching "Christmas". It's including all their constituents and customers regardless of what holiday they celebrate. It also makes a much tidier soundbite and store display than "Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwanzaa" and doesn't run the risk of forgetting that tiny constituency or group of customers who may not celebrate any of the three but still like to vote and shop.
Your very own confusion on this should be indication that I'm probaby right since our country produces few people as saavy about offending as few people as possible as politicians and retailers. The people who are going to be offended by someone saying "Happy Holidays" are probably people who are going to be offended by something in any case because they enjoy it.
Squicky wrote:
quote:although I will note that saying it to people who don't celebrate the holiday can be considered a little rude.
Sure, it can be, but if it is I think the problem is with the recipient. It's one thing to choose to say "Happy Holidays" with the intent of including everyone. It's something entirely different to be offended by any phrase for the season uttered with good will. It's downright petty, selfish, and mean spirited to find reason for discord in a heartfelt expression of goodwill. Such people need to get over themselves.
That said, I do believe that governmental offices need to make the effort to be all-inclusive at this time of year. Personally I don't care if that means trying to cover all the cultures individually or together via "Happy Holidays". I prefer the latter in most cases because it is accurate and concise.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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I know several Jewish groups are get upset with the "Happy Hannukah". Hannukah is not that big of a holiday for Judaism. Its certainly not as important as the High Holy Days, which get almost no public attention. Yet marketing people are determined to push Hannukan as some kind of "Christmas-Lite for Jews" in order to sell them the same Christmas junk that the Christians are buying.
Tern, you hear Merry Christmas 100 times a day, but hear Happy Kwanzaa twice, and you complain about the Kwanzaa? If the Kwanzaa bothers you that much, imagine what teh Merry Christmas does to non-believers?
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I don't understand why a store would lose shoppers if an employee chose to say "Happy Holidays" to her customers instead of Merry Christmas. I can't believe some people (including my own family) are offended to be wished a happy holiday. How is that offensive? Is a store employee trying to keep me from celebrating Christmas? Are they trying to keep me from being Christian? Are they trying to force me to celebrate some non-religious combination of holidays? No. They're just wishing me a good holiday season, and they don't know what holiday I celebrate, if any. Or perhaps they DO know I celebrate Christmas, but they don't. Either way it takes nothing from me, and it actually gives me a kind greeting - which is more than I get on most ordinary days.
Now, congress having a "holiday tree" instead of a Christmas tree is a little silly. Not really offensive to me; again, it takes NOTHING away from me; but it is silly.
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quote: Ah well, here's to the ACLU: "We don't hate religion, we just hate Christianity!"
I think you're wrong there. The ACLU hates the establishment of any religion, tern, and there's no religion quite as well-established in this country as Christianity.
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