posted
In Kansas City, a bilingual student has been suspended for speaking Spanish while at school. He was interacting with another student in the hall between classes, and apparently had an exchange with the other kid in Spanish. The principal noted that this was not the first time he'd been warned about speaking Spanish.
What the....
I wonder if this school, like virtually every other high school in the country, offers Spanish as a subject of study? Would they suspend some kid for whose first language was English if they tried to use what they were learning in Spanish class outside the classroom? Does this ban extend to all subjects taught? If some kid is counting out a handful of change while in line to buy food in the cafeteria, are they subject to being suspended for using math outside of the classroom? If their grammar too closely resembles that of the American Standard dialect, should they be investigated to confirm whether or not they are guilty of applying lessons from English class to their daily lives?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Seems like a drastic overreaction on the part of the disciplinarian. The text of the referral seems ridiculous on the face of it. I could understand if he was speaking Spanish to covertly make fun of a teacher or student, or publicly curse or something, but even then, the infringement would not be speaking Spanish, but the other things.
We're supposed to be a melting pot, or so I heard in all but a few of my history classes (which referred to us as salads). Let the tomatoes speak tomato, and the lettuce speak lettuce, and the dressing talk dressing if it likes.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Oh my goodness. The principal should be fired. While I realize there are some laws against obscene speech on school property for crying out loud, freedom of speech isn't only if you are speaking in English!
posted
Wow. When I first read your post (without reading the article) I thought that there had to be something else, something gang related or a threat of some kind, something. So disappointing to see that happening. My oldest was partially educated in the Kansas school system (not that district thankfully but the outskirts of KC) and educucation was taken very seriously there so I am very surprised and disappointed by this.
Posts: 697 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I also think that the poll in the midst of the article is tricksy. The question that links to the poll reads, "Should students be allowed to speak Spanish at school?" while the actual poll reads, "Do you think Zach Rubio should have been suspended for speaking Spanish at school?" --exactly the reverse yes and no answers.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
There was no written policy against speaking Spanish in the hallways. He shouldn't have been suspended. That principle is going to be hung out to dry.
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Wow, that is a lot different from the highschool I went to. Where I'd say at leat 45% of the students spoke spanish in their homes. At graduation they even had some parts in both spanish and english (which some parents weren't too happy about) but I think that is ridiculous that a student was suspended for speaking spanish.
Posts: 169 | Registered: Feb 2001
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It's disgraceful that a principal would suspend a student for speaking Spanish in the hall, but I can't say I am really surprised. Living in south Florida, I have heard a lot of anti-Spanish sentiment expressed by people who resent the Spanish-speaking population here. I can't imagine a student being suspended for speaking Spanish (or Haitian Creole, the second most common second language in south Florida) here, though - there are too many students with a second language for a principal to be able to get away with something like that.
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
This makes me think of all the bilingual friends and classmates I've had over the years who were ashamed to be heard speaking their parent's language in front of the rest of us, like it was some horrible thing that made them weird instead of a wonderful skill that made them special and cool. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Speaking Spanish is seen by some as an element of suspicion. For example, being poor and speaking Spanish is seen by some as reasonable suspicion that a person is an illegal immigrant. Looking for day work and speaking Spanish - same thing.
It's a fairly widespread assumption that a lot of people don't even realize is being made. And it sucks.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Ooh, really bad move on the principal's part. Unless there is some extenuating circumstance we're not hearing about.
I remember an elderly relative of mine who would get upset anytime we went anywhere and heard people conversing in a language other than English. She took it personally, somehow. It was like, "if you're going to come to our country, speak our language, anything else is rude." I just never understood that at all! I enjoy hearing conversations in other languages and trying to figure out which language it is. But now that I think about it, my Dad is bilingual, so I grew up around it--although he never gets to speak Norwegian w/ anyone but his brother.
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I spoke spanish *all* the time in HS. My friends and I were in the class and we were *PRACTICING*.
That being said, I doubt we have all the facts here. What if the student in question was swearing up a storm in spanish. What if he was making threats? Does the principal speak spanish so he knew what was being said?
What if the student had other disciplinary problems and was verbotten from speaking spanish because he could be plotting his next crime.
However, if he was just a normal kid speaking spanish I think the principal should be hung out to dry. If there is a policy against speaking spanish, the school board should be hung out to dry.
posted
OK, this doesn't appear to be a "I didn't understand him so I kicked him out for plotting against me" situation.
Its more an "English Emmersion School" story. They teach English As A Second Language via the Emmersion technique--not allowing the students to speak Spanish, they are forced to learn English.
While this theory is questionable, it is in practice, so the student broke the training. That is his crime.
The punishment does not fit that crime. It is too harsh, and the student was not in the English class at the time, nor is he in need of English as a second language. I don't know if the student he was talking to does.
But the spin that I see here does not fit the crime either.
Arguing that this is an attack on his first amendment rights is like arguing that not being allowed to yell correct answers to the final is violating your right to free speach.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Dan, are you drawing from information other than that in the story I linked to? If so, can you give us a link? If not, why do you think that the kid was in an English language immersion program? From what I read it was pretty clear that he was fully bilingual.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
My first thought, before reading the linked article, was that perhaps these kids were using Spanish to hide an inappropriate conversation and that the administrator involved understood what was being said. If that had been the case, I could potentially understand the punishment. But since I don't see any indication of that in the story, all I can say is Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
From what I read in the article it appears the kid was bilingual and not in any ESL classes, but that the school was running as an Immersion School. That is why he got in trouble previously for speaking Spanish.
I did not get this from the article, but am making assumptions, as big as those made by people saying it was because he was cursing in Spanish.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Sweetbaboo, interesting! I taught ESL as part of an outreach program in Olathe for a few years. Wasn't affiliated with the school system in any way though.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Dan, it just seems to me to be a fairly elaborate assumption to be making. You could be right--and if you were I would agree with you that some punishment would be reasonable for the kid's breaking of the rules--but I just don't see anything in the article to suggest that you are. Actually, the fact that the article clearly states that there is no written rule having to do with speaking Spanish suggests to me that it *isn't* an immersion program, as I would assume that if it were rules like that would be clearly set forth.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
No, I moved away a little more than 3 years ago. I liked it there too though. Were you from the area originally?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Nope. I'm originally from Canada and since getting married have moved around a bit. How about you?
Posts: 697 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I grew up in the country outside of Lawrence, which is realatively close to KC. I don't know how familiar you are with the area. Do you know where Clinton Lake is? I grew up across the lake from Lawrence. Well, once they built the lake, of course.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Kind of familiar. I lived in the Olathe, OP area for 8 years but I am VERY directionally challenged, so I didn't go anywhere that I hadn't been before. I have heard of Clinton Lake though. Sorry for the thread derail.
Posts: 697 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
The school is is only 17% Hispanic and 69% white, so I doubt it is an ESL school. From what I've been able to find, it looks like it is the "special" high school for troubled kids.
If this is true, I can imagine there being policy banning speaking any language other than English. Discipline problems could be much worse when the kids wandering in the halls are speaking a language the teacher doesn't know. I would think that to get sent to an alternative school, one would have already shown a propensity toward anti-social behavior.
I don't know. I don't have an opinion, just trying to figure out a reason they would do this.
::scratches head some more::
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
At my elementary school, there was a rule against speaking a language that everyone involved in the conversation did not understand. However, in a one-on-one conversation, you could speak Korean, Armenian, Spanish, Russian, whatever.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I'm sure there's more to this story. There's always more to "Person In Authority Behaves In A Way That Seems Just Barely Believable" story.
They interview a bunch of people who want to give the side that the autority figure is out of line, then they throw in a quote like this one: "The superintendent did not respond to several requests to comment for this article."
Never mind that the district certainly has a policy that prevents them from discussing cases like this with the media, largely out of respect for the privacy of the student. Could you imagine the very real lawsuit that would result if the district released information about a minor having been involved with a crime?
Because I think the real suspension probably had to do with a drug history. That's just a guess, based on the only other bit of information about the incident in the article--that the spanish speaking also involved money changing hands.
But it could be anything.
Some reporter hears something that might make a good headline, gets the versions of the story to back it up, finds a way to give it an anti-conservative spin (people opposed to illegal immigration hate legal immigrants!), and viola! You have just about any news article in your paper.
Especially your local paper.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Exactly, doc. Those were my thoughts. I think there was probably somethign more going on there. And if it is a school for those with, er, disciplinary needs, being able to hear and understand what students are saying in the halls is important.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
While you may be right, doc, it's worth pointing out that the reporter in this instance is T. R. Reid. He's hardly an unknown journalist on a podunk newspaper itching for some local controversy to plump up his portfolio or something.
I'll be interested to see how this one unfolds.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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These days, you'd get more kids speaking Sindarin or Quenya what with the LOTR craze. Klingon is on the way out. Elvish is in.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I heard on local news the student has filed suit in federal court over this issue. I don't know what the claims are.
Sorry I can't tell you more, but I purposefully flip past Fox news, and that's the only bit I caught.
Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Pixiest: in Spanish, yes! The board can't censor us, woot! Podemos decir todas las pendejadas que queramos.
Posts: 5663 | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I agree firmly with the pricipal. If kids are allowed to speak Spanish in school, what is to stop them from speaking Esperanto? And, as we know, Esperanto speakers are part of the international plot to make a One-World Federal Government out of the U.N. and convert everyone to Ba'hai. http://www.contenderministries.org/UN/bahaiun.phpPosts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Again, I think the point being made is that this is an "alternative" high school. I'm betting these kids are problem kids to begin with who've been suspended out of regular high school. I'd also guess that this was something the principal/teachers of the school itself decided on and it's not a district-wide policy.
It's not that they are plotting to over-throw the government, but mere the fact that they know they can frustrate the teachers just by doing it thrills them. And that is the rebelliousness that got them to that school in the first place. What's the point of special education if you can't make anything about it "special."
Still, it seems silly to me, if the only thing he said was really, "No problema."
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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