quote: There are so many people who were afraid of being considered racist that they couldn't give a physical description. I'd get things like, "Well, I'm not being racist or anything, but he was (*whispers*) black."
I have that happen almost daily in my department. We have two technicians who have the same first name. One is black and one is white. So sometimes users will call up and ask for "Joe", because he has helped them with their issue before, and I will say "which Joe?" and give both last names. They always hesitate and then whisper, "well, I don't know his last name, but he is black". I have to laugh. I say, "it is perfectly okay to tell me whether he was black or white - at least that points me to the right guy."
As for Asian-Americans, I have to admit it is still a huge learning curve for me. I have never been able to tell, by looking at someone, whether their Asian descent is Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese or what (and most of the time it doesn't matter). I have tried to make myself be more aware and try to learn the differences.
But, like, a wonderful place to eat near work is called something like "Kyoto Japanese House" and when I heard the workers talking to each other in their native tongue, I asked, "Is that Japanese?" and they smiled and said, "No that was Korean. We are all from Korea." So great -- a Japanese place that is owned and operated by Koreans. This isn't making it any easier on me to learn....
posted
Yeah, I always have to be careful in Chinese restaurants. I studied a semester of Mandarin, and I like to practice it. However, quite often the waiters/waitresses are Cantonese (at least around here). Usually I can tell the difference between a Cantonese and Mandarin speaker by the way the English is accented, but I'm always too shy to try talking with them unless I've overheard some of their conversation and recognized it as Mandarin.
I can easily tell the difference between Mandarin, Cantonese, and Japanese languages, but I still have trouble with physical features. So I never assume anything.
posted
Sorry erosmniac, that sucks. Your reaction to the dive-suit jackass though, *high-five*. To hell with smiling and nodding and tolerating that crap. Throw their asses out when you can.
----
I just want to know what Mr. Miyagi is supposed to know about dive suits. I've watched those movies at least twice each, and I don't remember nuffink about that.
But I suppose it's possible that he didn't think it through that much I think it's my Mel Brooks streak that makes me wonder how much further the jackass could've gone.
I mean, he tapped out Mr. Miyagi and Jet Li. Was he going for exclusively martial-arts films actors of Asian ancestry? We'll be forever left guessing. *sigh*
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
I remeber a conversation one day over teamspeak with a bunch of crazy english/welsh/scotish dudes while playing Call of Duty and we were having this here talk about same sex marriage and racism and gets to the point where I give a typical reasoning along socialogical lines, where basicaly humans were like, we have our hill and they have their hill, their hill is greener and lets take it, and also I say we have sheep and they have sheep lets take their sheep, and one of the crazy Welsh people starts raving about how none of us will dare take and f*** his sheep, apparently the Welsh like sheep.
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quote:So great -- a Japanese place that is owned and operated by Koreans. This isn't making it any easier on me to learn....
Almost every Japanese restaurant I've found on the continental U.S. is owned and operated by Koreans.
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posted
I've been at a few operated by Japanese people. But only a few. However, I'm not that fond of Japanese food (except tempura veggies); I much prefer Korean barbeque. Spicy!!!
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Could you describe this store a little more completely for me. I'm just dying of curiosity. What products do you sell. Is it an auction house or a dive store?
Or are there two stores?
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The store is called Yabe Auctions: it's an eBay consignment store. People without the time, means or know how to sell their stuff online leave it with us: we take care of the leg work and send them a check minus our hefty commission.
We get some very bizarre things: everything from French Limoges to vintage fountain soda memorabilia to woodworking equipment to Fred Machentaz prints to dive equipment to, yesterday, a wedding dress.
Right now, though, we look like a salon.
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quote:I just want to know what Mr. Miyagi is supposed to know about dive suits. I've watched those movies at least twice each, and I don't remember nuffink about that.
It was right after the part where he summons Godzilla to give Ralph Maccio magical powers.
posted
We have two Japanese restaurants here run by Japanese people, although they both have Sri Lankan cooks, but our Indian restaurants tend to be run by Sri Lankans, which means that the Indian food is less Indian and more Sri Lankan, and not in a good way. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Nell Gwyn: Whoa...yeah, I definitely would've snapped on that last one too. Screw "the customer is always right"! I would've been strongly tempted to leap over the counter and claw his eyes out while screeching incoherently. But then, I'm a non-athletic girl, so this tactic would most likely have been singularly ineffective.
I had a boss once who was great about that stuff. He not only told people to get out, he told them not to come back.
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quote:Originally posted by theCrowsWife: Yeah, I always have to be careful in Chinese restaurants. I studied a semester of Mandarin, and I like to practice it. However, quite often the waiters/waitresses are Cantonese (at least around here). Usually I can tell the difference between a Cantonese and Mandarin speaker by the way the English is accented, but I'm always too shy to try talking with them unless I've overheard some of their conversation and recognized it as Mandarin.
I can easily tell the difference between Mandarin, Cantonese, and Japanese languages, but I still have trouble with physical features. So I never assume anything.
--Mel
It's impossible to distinguish a Cantonese (or any other Chinese dialect) person from a Mandarin person apart from accents because they are both just Chinese people who happen to speak different dialects. Many Cantonese people who are from Hong Kong actually do know how to speak Mandarin in addition to the Cantonese since it's the national language.
Heh, the whole "I shant assume" bit reminds me of high school when me and two other Asian students were waiting in the counselor's office. Someone's mother decided to take it upon herself to guess our nationalities. She informed us that there were a lot of Asian girls in her daughter's basketball team so she is getting good at telling one nationality from the other. My guess is that in an effort to not assume, she ended up picking apart our features much too deeply and as a result, two of us came out Korean and the other, Japanese.
In actuality all three of us were Chinese.
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See, what I find funny is that while Japanese and Koreans look similar enough that mistakes can make sense, Chinese people really look like neither, at all. Totally different feature sets.
I give props to the people who can distinguish Okinawans from Japanese, though.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Meh, I don't generally take offense when people mistake me for Chinese or Korean (unless, like in my examples, they give me attitude), since lord knows I couldn't possibly distinguish all of the various European stocks that go into making "white" or the various backgrounds that go into "black."
Not to mention I couldn't tell you the aesthetic differences between a Mexican, a Spaniard, a Puerto Rican, a Cuban, or anyone else of Hispanic descent.
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posted
Accent is very helpful in telling apart people from different South and Central American countries.
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posted
Hmm. Sure, yeah, but not so much for telling apart Tamil Sri Lankans and Tamil Indians. Then it stays downright confusing.
But then, the only way I can tell Sinhala Sri Lankans from Tamil Sri Lankans from Moor Sri Lankans is by their names. The Dutch Burghers, though, are easy to tell - they're paler than the rest and have more European features.
And no, I also can't tell Korean from Japanese from Chinese. Sorry. I fail.
However, now that I think about it, at least I can tell Japanese people from those of European ancestry. Unlike the locals who think I'm Japanese.
For the record, I have pasty pale whitish-pink skin. With blue eyes and red hair. Out of a bottle, but still. And did I mention the pasty pale whitish-pink skin? Cuz honestly, I really thought that would be the first clue.
Seriously.
Erosomniac, I feel your pain.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I really can't tell anyone of the Asian nationalities apart by physical characteristics, and I honestly don't try. Unless it's someone I know, and I'm curious enough about them to ask, thus getting to know them better, It's not really an issue. And since I tend to ask everyone I know personally where they are from, as I'm usually very interested in heritage, there's no discernable difference.
It's hard to classify where a white American is from, there's just too much cross-breeding to nail anyone as specifically Germanic or Norweigan, unless they have a clear lineage. I think there are pretty obvious and big differences in the European nations though, Russians, Brits, Scandinavians, many of them look completely different.
I guess it just depends on where you live, who you grew up with, and how much attention you really pay to this kind of thing.
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If you were to put me in a room with some from Poland, Germany, France and England together, I may not be able to distinguish their differences either, unless they opened their mouth to talk.....
Farmgirl (and everyone assumes I'm Irish or Scottish because of my red hair, but that comes from the Welsh side of the family)
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quote:Originally posted by Azile: It's impossible to distinguish a Cantonese (or any other Chinese dialect) person from a Mandarin person apart from accents because they are both just Chinese people who happen to speak different dialects.
I know, my statement wasn't very clear. I meant that I can't always tell the difference between the nationalities: Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese, etc, although I can often use my recognition of the language to place people. Of course, if the person in question only speaks English, that's no help.
I forget where this quote comes from, but there's some truth to it: "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." Whether something is classified as a language or a dialect has more to do with political power than linguistic reality, most of the time.
quote: The store is called Yabe Auctions: it's an eBay consignment store. People without the time, means or know how to sell their stuff online leave it with us: we take care of the leg work and send them a check minus our hefty commission.
So...did you get this idea from "The 40 Year Old Virgin"?
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quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: Sorry Hatrack, I don't mean to sound like a whiner, but I need to vent this more or less immediately or a brick might go through the window of my store and/or a gas station may get held up.
I've worked in retail, customer service, and sales for about five years now, and I thought I'd gotten pretty used to dealing with racism and racial stereotypes, but recently they've just been overwhelming me and today was pretty much the last straw.
For years, I've been dealing with racial stereotypes & misconceptions, both positive and negative, and generally shrugging it off or trying to make the best of it. After all, asians generally have it pretty good when it comes to minority stereotypes: a lot of them are "positive" (insofar as a stereotype is ever positive). The men may have small penises, the women have no curves, but at least we're all brilliant at math and science and know kung fu, right? We know all the crazy tantric sex secrets and our porn is crazy and widely desired, right?
But the past few weeks...ugh.
Incident 1:
Customer: (to my boss) Yeah, you know, this thing here, it's a dive refractometer or something. Boss: Ok, what's a dive refractometer? Customer: F*** if I know. Hey, Chinese boy, the hell's a refractometer? Me: I have absolutely no idea. <big smile>
Incident 2:
Elderly, rich female customer: Please be careful with these antique jewelry pieces, they're very fragile. Me: Ok. <proceeds to input info into the database, noticing that elderly, rich female customer is staring at me.> Yes? ERFC: Oh...so, uhm, are you from Asia?. Me: (Must...control...fist of death...)
Incident 3:
Customer: Andrew, how do you pronounce your last name? Me: I'm sorry, sir? Customer: On your name tag. Me: Sir, "E.C.A.T." stands for Efficiency Consultant & Auction Technician, my position in the store. Customer: Oh, I'm sorry, it's just that I'm going to China soon and I wanted to brush up on my pronunciation. Me: Sir...I'm Japanese.
Incident 4 (about 15 minutes ago, and this is the one that makes me want to kill something):
Customer: Look, the diving suit you sold me has broken neck seals. Me: Oh, don't worry, the neck seals aren't broken, they've just constricted due to storage, you can stretch them out again by-- Customer: Look, Mr. Miyagi, I don't care what you think you know about-- Me: ...sir, what did you just call me? Customer: What? Ching chang chong chong dumb f***? Look, I want my money back on this suit, if you can't help-- Me: Get the hell out of my store. Customer: What? Me: Get. The hell out. Of my store. Customer: Whatever, bud. Don't get all jet li on my ass. <pushes the diving suit off the counter and leaves>
Ok, typing helped. Back to work for asian mcgee.
If I promise not to be a stereotypical white boy, can I get a good deal on Dive equipment?
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Sorry about what you had to go thru eros, tho kudos on handling that last customer. I get annoyed at some of the idiot racists around this part of the world... apparently, they think I wouldn't mind listening to that bile since I'm white...
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posted
There have been eBay consignment stores around for years, THT. There's one a couple blocks from here that's been there at least three years.
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See, what I find funny is that while Japanese and Koreans look similar enough that mistakes can make sense, Chinese people really look like neither, at all. Totally different feature sets.
I give props to the people who can distinguish Okinawans from Japanese, though.
What, really? I always thought the Japanese had the most unique features of the Asian ethnicities.
What throws me are Indians. I can't tell south from west from beef-aversive from pork-aversive. I have very little trouble with Asians and Latinos, but whites and Indians are tough.
On the plus side, I don't particularly MIND taking a long time to figure out where an Indian girl's from. Whoo. My lord. I have no idea why the Germans thought they were the master race...
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posted
Maybe cuz erosomniac is from the US? And cuz white folks won't give up until they figure out "where you're really from"?
Typical conversation. "What are you?" "I'm an engineer." (which would end it if the answerer were white) "No, I mean where are you from?" "Oh, I grew up in Florida. Mostly Miami." (which would end it if the answerer were white) "No, I mean what nationality are you?" "American, why?" (which would end it if the answerer were white) "I meant where are your parents from?" "Lodi, California" (which would end it if the answerer were white) etc etc etc
posted
I work with lots of foreign born folk, and they tell me that "Where are you from" is usually annoying. They know they speak with an accent, they don't have to be asked by strangers eight or ten times a day "Where are you from?", to remind them. They also tell me that it is a racist thing.
So I only ask if I have a reason to ask, not just to satiate a passing curiosity.
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posted
I'm foreign born and I'm actually never bothered when people ask me where I'm from. I'm more offended when people just outright assume they know where I'm from and say "You're from Mexico" or "You're from Colombia" instead of just asking me and getting a polite answer.
I don't just go up to strangers and ask though, I only ask if it's relevant to the conversation at hand or if the person actually asked me first.
Posts: 459 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Yep, I've lost count of how many times I've been asked, "Where are you from? No, I mean, where are you from originally?"
I certainly don't expect anyone to know I'm Filipino just by looking at me - heck, I can't even tell the different Asian ethnicities apart very regularly. But when people just assume that all Asians = Chinese (or whatever country they prefer to insert), that irks me.
I don't mind at all telling random strangers what my ethnic background is when I can tell they're asking out of sincere curiosity. But when they're stupid about it, I usually let them know they're stupid. Incidentally, when I worked at the casino, about half the askers were other Asians, probably wondering what this oddity of a semi-Asian girl was doing in the middle of Cornland.
...
I'm also guilty of not being able to tell apart Hispanic ethnicities, either visually or by accents. I usually take the mind-my-own-business tack as far as that goes - if they bring it up, I'm interested, but otherwise, I don't feel the need to pry. Same goes for other races/ethnicities too.
Posts: 952 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Yeah, I would answer all those questions literally.
When someone asks where you're from, even though you both know they want to know your nationality give them your actual birthplace.
Like my old roommate Nick. His grandparents were from El Salvador, and he and his brothers all had very hispanic features. But when people would say, "Where're you from?" he'd say "New Orleans".
posted
Whenever I've asked someone about it, it's been part of a conversation. "Where is your family from?" And they usually ask me the same thing. Although my answer is usually much, much longer, since most people, even if they are of multiple heritages, only identify with one or two. My family never picked one, so I usually list all of them. It was always way more important to us that we were Protestant, I think.
I had a friend in high school who was a citizen of Germany, Chile, and the US. And he spoke German, Spanish, and English. He had a fun time explaining that. I'm not quite sure what sort of accent he had because I'm bad at identifying such things, but he had a very German name.
posted
I'd never ask a stranger where they were from, not in that sense. If it were someone at work that I talk to often I might, and actually I have before.
I don't however think it is racist at all, and to be honest, I get extremely angry whenever I hear people say that. Calling someone who is white "racist" is far too casual, and I'm getting sick and tired of it.
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quote:Yep, I've lost count of how many times I've been asked, "Where are you from? No, I mean, where are you from originally?"
See, I don't get irritated with people who want to know what my ethnic background is. It's two things that bother me (one of which is emphasized in Nell's quote above):
1) When people assume I'm one ethnicity, and I'm not. 2) When people assume I'm not American, and I am. This one *really* pisses me off. I bleed red, white and blue. My family immigrated from Japan in the early 1800's: we're more "American" than a lot of the people that assume otherwise (excepting, of course, the fact that Hawaii wasn't really part of the United States until the mid 1900s).
quote:Typical conversation. "What are you?" "I'm an engineer." (which would end it if the answerer were white) "No, I mean where are you from?" "Oh, I grew up in Florida. Mostly Miami." (which would end it if the answerer were white) "No, I mean what nationality are you?" "American, why?" (which would end it if the answerer were white) "I meant where are your parents from?" "Lodi, California" (which would end it if the answerer were white) etc etc etc
Too awesome for words.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Wouldn't it be easier (and more direct and honest) to just ask what their ethnic background is? I ask this question to white people mostly, because it is very hard to distinguish different European traits. (I knew about the Welsh having red hair, though because we are Welsh, too.) But I've probably asked more white people what countries their families came from than other ethnic groups.
But I don't not ask because they aren't white. My husband's friend, last name Nguyen, was obviously Vietnamese, but I asked him what his ethnic background was. He's also Hawaiian. And something else I don't remember.
If you're curious, why not ask? I suppose unless someone tells me why it is offensive, I'll keep doing it.
You know, when I used to work, there was a black guy on my line who used to ask me questions about white people. I asked questions about black people, too. The one specific question I remember him asked was about a girl who'd come in late and spent the first 15 minutes of the shift telling us all about how late she was and how she didn't even have time to take a shower but to only wash her hair.
To the black guy, this was bewildering. I explained to him that most white people's hair needed to be washed every day, or at least every other day. You could always put on lots of deodorant or perfume, but you really can't fix bed head/greasy limp hair. It was cool that we could ask each other questions.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I'm not sure how or when it happened but my son, who was 5 or 6 at the time, announced that he "didn't like brown babies" in front of the whole family. No one in his network of adults is racist in any way and so we all kind of freaked out on the poor kid. Telling him that it wasn't correct to think this way and that we are "all the same, inside".
Months later while eating at a mall, we sat near a table with a African-American (Added for Clarity; see the P.S. below) family with a small infant. The child loudly wailed and wailed through our meal. As we were leaving my son says "that is why I don't like them"...
So apparently at somepoint in pre-school or daycare he had a bad experiance with a loud crying baby, that must have really upset him. He is very tender hearted and normally is very good with smaller children. And I can see him being upset by something like that.
My race? Human...
P.S.
Just a quick rant on hyphenated races. If you are born here, especially if your parents were born here too, I feel you're not anything but "American". Otherwise you can call me a Cuban-German-English-Irish-Cherokee-American. I'm sure there are more we could "hyphenate in" but I've not bothered to look further in to the past beyond the 18th century.
Posts: 80 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Kayla, it's not the asking that's offensive. The offensive part is when the asker clearly believes that ethnic background and birthplace/nationality are automatically the same thing and ignores obvious evidence to the contrary (i.e. fluent English with no foreign accent).
Some people might think they're asking about my ethnic background when they ask, "Where are you from?" but what they're actually doing is basing their question on an assumption that I'm an immigrant*, which they believe based on nothing more than what I look like. That's what I take exception to. Aspectre's conversation example isn't an exaggeration at all - for some people, it really is that unthinkable that an Asian-by-heritage is not also an Asian-by-birthplace. And other people don't even ask any questions, they just assume and label and somehow think it's okay to make rude comments - apparently because I don't understand English well enough to get that I'm being mocked or something. That really gets my blood boiling - that last jerk in erosomniac's first post is an example.
Curious questions are fine. Questions based on stereotyped assumptions are not.
* Just to clarify, I don't think immigrants are any better or worse than people born in the US. I just think more people should be aware that one's ethnic heritage isn't necessarily indicative of one's place of birth.
Posts: 952 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I had an interesting conversation this weekend. I did ask someone their ethnicity. However, I think I asked it in quite possibly the most complimentary way possible.
Setting... it's ass-cold outside (single digit temps and below zero windchills) and there is a shuttle bus between the parking structure and the convention center where the dog show was being held. I made a lunch run sans dogs for my friends since I knew the area and was on the way back. I got in the shuttle bus with my Chipotle bag, and sat down. I was the only person in the bus other than the driver and I sat down directly behind him.
I look at the back of his head in sudden shock, wondering why the heck my boyfriend is driving a bus. Same hair, same haircut. Glance to the rear view mirror to see his features and they are extremely similar, and even wear the same kind of glasses.
Me: "I'm sorry, this is going to sound rude, but you look like you could be my boyfriend's brother. What ethnicity are you? He's black, white and Cuban, and I've never seen anyone look quite so similar before."
I think that was about as polite as I could inquire. Besides I was telling him he looked like my boyfriend!
Turned out the guy was Puerto Rican. Made a lot of sense, a very similar ethnic blend. The guy was like "He even has my nasty hair?" I said "Yup, feels like a brillo pad right?" He laughed and said, "Yes I guess he does."
Had a pretty nice conversation. I should have gotten his name. Went home and told Steve I met his long-lost Puerto Rican brother.
posted
I always ask people a few questions when I'm getting to know them. Where they're from (where they grew up, or what place do they identify with,) their ethnicity, and how many, if any, brothers and sisters they have. Those questions usually get you a whole lot of answers.
The reason I ask is that there are cultural differences between us all. I think knowing that someone is one of three sisters from Alabama whose family is tenth generation from Ireland tells me a heck of a lot about that person. However, if I only knew she had a southern accent, I would have much less information. I mean, if she had a southern accent and was an only child and her ethnic heritage was second generation Chinese, that would be a whole other ball of wax.
I'm just saying, I like to know more about a person before I go wishing them a Merry Christmas, or asking them how they make fried chicken. I think the first woman I could do either of those things, but with the second, I'm not sure I would. Second generation probably doesn't have a 200 year old family recipe for Southern fried chicken, and I already have the pansy-ass northern white folks recipe. I'm just saying. . .
Mmmm. . .I should go watch Soul Food. That movie made me hungry for food I'd never even seen before.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I think it's my Mel Brooks streak that makes me wonder how much further the jackass could've gone.![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Screw "the customer is always right"! I would've been strongly tempted to leap over the counter and claw his eyes out while screeching incoherently. But then, I'm a non-athletic girl, so this tactic would most likely have been singularly ineffective.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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If you're curious, why not ask? I suppose unless someone tells me why it is offensive, I'll keep doing it. 
