When I think about the stuff I enjoy reading, I pretty much break it down into:
Writing
Characters
Ideas
Plot
In that order, too. So I'm willing to put up with a dumb plot if the characters are compelling, or even if it has some cool ideas in it. That's the main reason I can tolerate most of Asimov's novels. But if the writing is turgid or otherwise annoying, even cool characters and ideas and plot aren't enough. Which is why, after three valiant tries, I'm never even going to attempt Tolkein's yawnfest again.
What elements of a story are most/least important to you? Are there stories that are an exception to your general preferences?
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I thought Tolkien was boring the first time I read it, but by the time I hit Two Towers I was enthralled, and even more so with Return of the King. Returning to Fellowship a couple years later I loved it a lot more than the first time I read it. Likewise I love the Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and even the books of Lost tales and all those crazy history books that Chris Tolkien edited and added to.
Characters are big for me, I think I'd put them above writing. I would break writing into two categories though Lisa, Dialogue and Style. Style can, like in Tolkien, make it sound very very boring, but the dialogue is still top notch in many places. Likewise I think Lucas has very very good writing style, but that his dialogue is horrible.
As such, my order would go Characters, Dialogue, Plot, Style, Ideas.
It doesn't have to be a fresh idea to entertainment, but at the same time I don't like to read the same thing twice with a slightly different take, I'd want something at least marginally creative.
The Plot has to make sense, and depending on the genre, it has to be exciting. I like twists, I like it when multiple story threads are woven together. I'm less impressed with simple plots that don't have any complication added to them.
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The writing is least important to me, at least consciously. I hear people talk about how such and such a book was poorly written and I think "I didn't notice that at all. What I noticed were things about the plot and characters that bothered me."
Using your elements, I'd probably rank them, from most to least important,
Characters Plot Ideas . Writing
I put writing by itself because it is so far down on the list that it doesn't even belong on the same list. I can enjoy a story that is weak on the others as long as I enjoy its characters, plot, or ideas. There has never been a story whose characters, plot, and ideas were lacking but I enjoyed because of the writing.
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I actually agree with your order Lisa. Bad writing won't allow me to get to know a character, plot, or ideas. Dean Koontz I think has some of the silliest plots out there, but I just fall deeply for all the characters and his writing style.
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Dean Koontz has more than one plot? When did this happen?
What sucks me into good writing is the quality of the creation, and it can be creation of a world, characters, idea, myth, or plot, especially creation that evokes something powerful and real.
With Tolkien, it's the world and the myth that I love, as well as some of the characters. The writing is perfect (to me) for invoking the mythology of the world he created and evoking the corresponding myths from our world.
With Rowling, it's mostly the plot - I want to know what happens next. Part of the reason I care about what happens is the characterization, and the writing at worst doesn't get in the way, and at best pulls you into the plot.
With OSC, it's usually characters and the idea. The writing almost always serves the characterization - especially via the dialog - and the idea well. At its best, the writing can be reason enough to read. The plot is usually subservient to the characters. The creation of the conflict is always superb; the resolution is sometimes sacrificed a little to the idea, but is almost always satisfying.
King's Dark Tower series disappointed most because of the piecemeal creation of the world in which the events took place. The characters were powerful, but mostly left unfulfilled - an incomplete creation. As to plot, most of the books had plots within them that ranged from decent (Wolves of Calla) to very, very good (Drawing of the Three), but the overall story was unsatisfying - again, it left the sense of being finished, not completed.
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Koontz has at least a half dozen plots. That's not as impressive when you realize he filled out 40 novels with them, but still, there's some variety.
Ironic that today, during my lunch break, I bought his newest hardback, which is a sequel to Odd Thomas. I wondered, "why make a sequel with one of the least gripping protagonists in your catalogue?"
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Oooh, good question. I never thought about this before, especially with relation to books. I usually see such things more clearly with movies.
I think for it varies depending on the book a lot. A fascinating idea can make a book worth reading... a well constructed (and written) style can keep me reading what isn't otherwise a particularly outstanding or interesting story... a good plot can make a poorly-written novel good...
Often books rely on idea and writing only, such as To The Lighthouse, which yes it does have a plot, but you wouldn't say it is the plot (or at least the "then-this-happened" level of plot) that is what is brilliant.
I haven't mentioned characters, yet. If a book has an awesome character, it certainly will help the book, but I often find characters are products of their environment, as it were. I think it is rare to have a great character or characters all alone in a story which otherwise communicates nothing. I can think of a number of characters who I think are awesome and certainly add a lot to the story, but there's usually some other element (plot, writing, idea) that the character works off.
The character may be the plot, which of course complicates the situation because how can you seperate the two?
Then again, perhaps characters are not what I pay attention to!
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I think my favorite stories have interesting structures. I don’t like being slapped with the climax. In fact, I like it when the real climax (usually the character making a big change) is hidden within the surface story.
I think I don’t concentrate enough on character myself, and that’s why I have a hard time coming up with sustainable story ideas.
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I love creativity. More than anything else. I have a very short attention span, so if the plot doesn't hook me, it doesn't matter about anything else.
I think I have a different opinion on characters than most. It seems like most people, correct me if I'm wrong, want the characters to be presented with interesting dilemnas and respond to it in an interesting way. I've also heard people say they don't want their characters to be black and white, meaning that they're set in what kind of character they are. Those kind of things don't really bother me that much. The first thing I like about a character is if I can relate to him/her. Well, I would like a character like that if I ever found one. I've never read a character that thinks the same way I do, has the same kind of luck as me and is faced with the same kind of problems and has the same personality. The other thing is I like the characters to be realistic. To find real kinds of people and portray them in fiction books. In my mind, when I get to know someone I classify them into categories of the kind of personality they have. Most of the categories I've created have never been used in the fiction books I've read, except the really common ones.
I have no idea how I wrote that much. I had more to say on this than I thought...to finish it, writing doesn't matter much to me. And finally, the list:
Idea Tied: Plots and the kind of characters I described above Writing
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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By conflict, I guess I mean the characters must have a compelling problem to solve. Maybe that's plot, I don't know. Morality is two things; the morality espoused by the characters as well as that of the author. For instance, I put down "Mists of Avalon" almost immediately (even though I usually go for Arthurian stuff) because I was so outraged at what I perceived to be Marion Zimmer Bradley's agenda. I also couldn't get through "A Clockwork Orange" or "Trainspotting" because of the nihilsm of the characters.
I also think it's important to differentiate between storytelling and writing. I read Rawling's books not because she's a good writer (she isn't) but because she's a great storyteller. I read Joyce's not because he's a good storyteller (isn't) but because he's a great writer. Personally I think Tolkien is both, and your slur on his writing is shocking (although nothing I haven't heard before; I'm still surprised each time I hear it, though).
As for exceptions to the rule, I've read all eleven Robert Jordan "Wheel of Time" books and I would say that, with the possible exception of the original, they lack all of my essentials. I hate that I read them, but I still do it.
I can forgive lack of plot if the writing is good, and I can forgive crappy writing if I'm dying to find out what comes next. Of course, I disagree with many as to what constitutes good writing. EG The Awakening I consider bad writing, and so could not forgive the bad plot. Robert Jordan started out with good both, and good characters to boot, but the characters have become unidimensional and the writing has paled as well. I do still read them because I'm loyal and I want to see if he can write his way to a conclusion or if it's just going to go on forever.
I highly recommend Sean McMullen's Greatwinter Trilogy. The characters are well developed and interesting, I enjoyed the plot and writing thoroughly, and he does have some interesting ideas as well.
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