posted
I am shocked and angered that Advent pulled this stunt, though I'm not exactly surprised. I don't know if that makes sense, but there you have it.
I do think that this thread highlights one of the things that I love about Hatrack. People took the time to seriously discuss an issue even though there were questions about the thread creator. Other places, he'd have been ignored at best or flamed at worst.
It was a good thread. I'd have posted myself if I actually knew anything about the subject. Posts: 1069 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Ah, okay, thanks JNSB. I didn't bother to really read his "proof", since it it was about as valid to me as ElJay's Atlantean birth information.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I'm nineteen, almost exactly two months older than Advent115 claims to be.
As a represetative of people born in 1986, I think it's safe to say I would not expect someone my age to act in this way.
I do not have any discriminatory ideas about younger people, being so young still myself. I try to judge people on what they say and how they conduct themselves, rather than who they are. As as has been said before, people like :Locke, who joined at a young age, were not treated badly for their age because they participated in conversations with maturity. After a while, you forget a person's age.
Neither I do not mind people not being forthcoming about their age, as long as they do not outright lie about it. You reserve the right not to give information about yourself, but lying about your age does nothing for your ageless, intelligent image.
quote:Dishonorable means that you're doing something completly immature for no good reason.
Dishonorable means you are not acting in an honorable way. Lying, for example, could be seen as a dishonorable act.
quote:But because of his immaturity, people assumed he was a teenager.
I think this is a valid assumption. If a 60 year old was acting in the same way, people would assume he or she was a teenager. However, I think it's very unlikely that a 60 year old, even an immature one, would exhibit the same kinds of immaturity that a real teenager would unless he or she was deliberately trying to imitate a teen.
I hope this can be resolved soon...
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Yes, because assuming fourteen year-olds are immature is a ridiculous, dishonorable assumption.
Immature isn't a bad thing. Immature is another word for inexperienced, even though it's often got bad connotations. I regard the type of Advent's deception an indication of immaturity-inexperience longing for the respect of experience. But it's not the type of lying that I-and other people-got upset about, Jeesh.
It's the flagrant and falsely-apologetic lying that pissed people off. I think you need to let go of your baggage on this issue, because to be honest? Teenagers getting huffy at the drop of a hat about people prejudging teenagers is, well, pretty stereotypical.
Get huffy about people prejudging you, when they do it, is quite different.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Some people's moral values might include not discussing sex with minors. Some people's moral values might not. The honorable thing to do when encountering the situation would be different for those two people. You cannot make a blanket statement about if a specific action is honorable or not. It depends on people values and motives. You can say that you consider lying dishonorable. But then someone will give you a specific example where lying is clearly the honorable thing to do. Morality usually has to be judged on a case-by-case basis, and there are a lot of gray areas. Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I get what you're saying, Jeesh. I remember being a smart, polite, bookish 14 year old. I was tall, too, and was constantly mistaken for an adult, which was okay by me. At least until my brother-in-law took me on an Astromomy class outing to his college's observatory and one of his classmates kinda hit on me. I was oblivious. I do remember wondering why that guy with a beard was offereing to buy me stuff from thge vending machines. *shrug*
Anyway... people not wanting to discuss sex with underage people on the internet is not dishonorable at all. Maybe the opposite. The age lines may be arbitrary, but there are laws that go along with them. If my sons' friends asked me about sex, I would certainly tell them to talk to their parents (they would all be under 10). I hope I don't face that situation when they are older.
It's a hard line to draw, because young people do need reliable, honest information, but most folks don't want to be sued or worse if a minor's parents get angry, which would be perfectly within their rights.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:ou can say that you consider lying dishonorable. But then someone will give you a specific example where lying is clearly the honorable thing to do.
Yes. I should have mentioned this when I said was lying was dishonorable.
quote:One of the reasons I'm still arguing is because I hate it when people assume you're immature and not smart, mearly because you're a teenager.
No one assumed that advent was immature because he was a teenager. We know he's immature (both for the age he claims to be and, well, pretty much any other age as well) because he's demonstrated as much nonstop since he registered. As several people have mentioned, since most of us exist here only as a name on a screen there's really no way to know how old someone is chronologically. All you know is how old they act.
If you are afraid people here will treat you differently because of your youth then don't act immature. The fact that Teshi and Advent are the same age is staggering, to me.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
As the cops always say on court shows when they are getting cross-examined, anything's possible.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Advent, if you are still reading this thread, I want to let you know that I've given thought to what you've done and written and have come to the conclusion that I am disappointed in you.
That is not to say that I want you to leave and never go come back. But, perhaps a modicum of introspection is in order. Can you see what you've done to get everyone all riled up? And, yeah, I know that you've apologized, but people are still upset with you.
Now, it could be that Hatrackers are just stiff-necked and unwilling to accept your contrite apology. But I'm thinking that this is not the case here. I'm thinking that they have concluded that you are untrustworthy and that you are the kind of person to use other people for your own ends. Can you see why people here might think that?
I'm not a big one for ganging up on someone and beating him when he's down. So I've mostly stayed out of this thread, hoping it would peter out. But maybe something constructive can happen here. Maybe you can take a little time out, introspect and empathize with the group, and then rejoin when you are ready to be a member who is willing to be on equal footing.
Personally, I'm not all that bothered by "immaturity". It is, after all, the perogative of the young. And there is not fault in being young and acting it.
People have, however, questioned your honor. Lying and manipulating are dishonorable. Trying to carve a role for yourself as superior to the rest of the group is also not too endearing.
I would be delighted to see you join us as a changed man. Humbler, respectful, considerate. And willing to play nicely with all of us here. Wouldn't you feel good doing that? Wouldn't you gain a measure of self-respect as your respect among the members grows?
Take care, Advent. And I hope to see you again.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I think an immature 14-year-old would be treated here with understanding and patience while an immature 20-year-old is far more likely to be mocked because they *ought* to be more mature, and having the maturity of the average 12-year-old is really, really sad.
We *expect* a 14-year-old to act somewhat immature, so when one does, we are not shocked or surprised. And when that same 14-year-old acts more intelligent and mature, we are pleasantly surprised and are delighted with them. They get respect and notoriety for it.
So what has happened here is not going to harm any *actual* 14-year-old.
Advent would have been far *more* respected if he claimed to be 14 even if he wasn't. Because then, at least, his behavior would have been more appropriate for his age rather than disappointingly sad.
It is the behavior that matters, not the age. Ya get it, Jeesh? That was the point of what I said in my really, really long post. I guess I didn't get my point across very well. :/
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: So, unrelated to the hub-bub, I have to say that ak's description of the "layers" of sexual perspective had to be one of the most chaste descriptions of sex I've ever read
Me, I like to think of it in terms of quantum foam, the smearing of Uncertain energy states across spacetime, and a whole lot of supersymmetry (hopefully).
-Bok
I can tell you understand me, Bok. <delicately dabs embroidered handkerchief at temples as pulse races> Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Assuming that the extent of it is saying he was twenty when he was really nineteen, I can only guess that he felt that having completed that second decade was a big deal, in a milestone kind of way. I can relate, I guess. When I was starting out as a teacher, I used to try to make more of my limited experience than there actually was--not through out and out lies, since that could be caught and lead to big problems--but through letting people draw inaccurate inferences from technically honest things I said. Like saying I was in my third year as a teacher, rather than saying I had completed two years of teaching. Both mean the same thing, but I felt the former sounded like more experience. When you're a certain age or a certain level of experience, you might feel that even a little difference is a big deal.
Then again, for all we know, Advent is a fourteen-year-old girl. *shrug*
Or, for all you know, I'm a 60-year-old truck driver, posting from Cyber Cafes.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Oh, I don't think he is a girl. And I don't think I'm a 60-year-old. I was merely pointing out the (remote) possibility.
Heck, maybe I'm actually Advent, getting my jollies by pretending to be a much newer member, and yanking to forum around. Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote: Or maybe he's one of those people who lies when they feel insecure?
I could understand that. I went through a very deceitful period of time when I was younger -- I'd lie just for the challenge of convincing people of a lie.
I eventually decided that I didn't want to be that kind of person, so I stopped.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Somewhere along the line I seem to have lost the ability for a bald-faced lie. Or maybe I never had it. But I always had a finely honed Aes Sedai's ability to misdirect. Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Although, come to think of it, I am excellent at the game "Bullsh*t."
And maybe not so bad at mafia, either.
I wonder if something about those two makes it feel like a totally different skill. Like, it's a game where you're expected to lie, so it doesn't feel like *really* lying.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I'm pretty good at both of those games too.
I agree -- when lying is part of the game, it doesn't fall in the realm of dishonesty.
My brothers and I used to play the game "Parcheatsi", which was exactly like Parchisi, and played on a Parchisi board, but with the addition of one rule: "It's only cheating if you get caught."
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Icarus: I'm a 60-year-old truck driver, posting from Cyber Cafes.
quote:Originally posted by Icarus: Heck, maybe I'm actually Advent, getting my jollies by pretending to be a much newer member, and yanking to forum around.
Wait. So, Advent is a 60 year-old trucker who posts from cybercafes under the name Icarus?
posted
Well, since all of this talk of respect and judging a person not by their age, but the way they act, I suppose I should tell MY age.
Well, Im 13. You may not find this suprising in any way, but I thought I should just say it. And no... I never lied about my age. I simply never said anything about it.
So, I am Reticulum, and I am 13 years old. I am not lying and I felt I would lose respect (in the beginning) if I told you guys. (And gals ) After reading this thread, I have come to realise that I will not lose any respect for being 13, but more so, for acting imature, and not being kind and productive to other members of this forum.
I was introduced here by BandoCommando, who, as you guessed it, is my band teacher. He showed me Hatrack, and I thought it would be a fun place to post on, and maybe goof-off. However, after staying here for a few months, I came to realise that that is NOT what Hatrack is for, but more so, for mature (mostly ) discussions and funny interactions of diverse peoples from all over the world.
As mentioned above, I thought that revealing my age would cause me to lose respect from the Hatrack community, and that I would be shunned, not respected, and overall ignored for the rest of the time I am here. After reading a few posts by (a) certain member(s) which specifically said that a person was judged by the way they act, and not their age, I feel that it would it be a mean, rude, unkind, and overall not right thing to do to Hatrack, since it probably explains a lot.
So now you see me, (hopefully)in a whole new light, and now know that I am not a very imature 16-20 year old, but an average 13 year old, who would like to maintain a good relationship with Hatrack. I hope this post does not change anything for the worst, but creates a good, and widespread understanding of me. Hopefuly, this will turn out for the better, and not worse.
Thank you for taking your time to read this. Thank you all, Hatrack, for giving me respect thus far.
I suppose I should create a landmark for this...
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:What's this latest hatrack craze of using the word dishonourable . . .
It's a meme.
I'm not convinced that "dishonorable" has been misused anywhere in this thread. I don't think "dishonor" is limited only to dishonesty but can refer to any action that ought to be beneath you, that ought to be shameful. Therefore, being mean to people solely because they're young, with no reason based on behavior (not that I think this has happened) arguably is dishonorable.
Reticulum, I'm glad you feel safe here.
I don't think "full disclosure" is necessarily required--simply that lying will earn people's strong disdain--particularly when it's self-aggrandizing lying. It is okay, however, to decide that something is none of our business, and simply never comment on it, and let people assume what they will.
I hope you find Hatrack to be a good avenue for growth. I believe I have.
I'm mildly surprised that a teacher who posts here encouraged you to join, simply because I would feel mildly uncomfortable if one of my students were here. (Just in terms of what I felt free to talk about, and "letting my hair down" in terms of being unprofessional.) But I guess if I just didn't post personal, or unprofessional stuff, I wouldn't need to worry about it.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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