posted
I am so sick, of seeing people complaining and whining about spelling errors and mistakes, and wasting perfectly good posts. People will deviate from perfectly great topics, and take down perfectly good points, by simply saying: "You have bad grammar", or "Learn punctuation."
Here's News People:
IGNORE IT!!!!! NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT BOTHERS YOU, JUST IGNORE IT!!!!! YOUR RANTING ABOUT HOW HORRIBLE A PERSON SPELLS WIL NOT CHANGE THE WORLD. PEOPLE USUALLY POST LIKE THAT, TO TYPE QUICKER, AND SHORTER.
That is the end of my rant.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
How about, instead of the large majority whose spelling and grammar is decent, the people whose spelling and grammar is painfully bad do themselves and everyone reading a favor and learn something and apply it?
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I don't think that was so much as a rant. But more you whining and complaining about spelling errors and mistakes.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Reticulum: That too. But can you honestly say, it doesn't bother you?
You complaining does bother me. Other people telling other people that they have grammar problems doesn't bother me. Grammar, punctuation, captilization, and spelling are all things that we learn starting in first grade, mostly. If it hasn't been mastered by now, I have very little respect for people who don't at least try to make their posts intelligible.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:PEOPLE USUALLY POST LIKE THAT, TO TYPE QUICKER, AND SHORTER.
Well that's great for them but did you ever stop and think about how incorrect writing takes longer to read?Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Well, I have a thing with commas, and adding them where they aren't needed. I don't do run-ons, (sp?) but just ad commas.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Also, about threads wandering off the original topic...
They do that some times. In fact, they do that most of the time. It's the way that Hatrack is. You've chosen to come here. You can't just expect everyone to change the way they have been functioning just to fit your needs.
Posts: 1466 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I know it takes longer to read. It is inconsiderate, to type like that, but people just make a HUGE deal out of it.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
One of the things I've always appreciated about Hatrack is that things like spelling, grammar and appropriate use of punctuation are regarded as important here. This sets it apart from a lot of the internet, and is no bad thing, in my opinion.
It seems to me that when you choose to involve yourself in any forum, you also choose to take on certain accepted norms of that forum; in this case the norm is to submit thoughtful, well-proofed posts.
Posts: 466 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
So there's something wrong with complaining about someone else being inconsiderate? We don't make a huge deal out of it until people like you come back with crap like "It's easier" or "I feel lazy today." You're making a HUGE deal out of it with this thread and defending them for those very reasons.
Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote: I know THAT Steve ( ), I just did it to shave off a few seconds.
How many seconds could it possibly shave off? All you are doing is hitting shift at the same time as "s," it is not like you have to heave a gigantic toy block with the capital form of "s," onto a table that is a number of feet above your head.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
When someone posts in bad English (and it's their native language) on a regular basis, I tend not to think of them as real people. So people correcting those that write badly are, in my book, turning puppets into real boys. And I'm cool with that. The obvious rectification, Reticulum, of your problem would be to ignore the helpful corrections.
Posts: 1156 | Registered: Jan 2004
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I'd have to say that as a general rule, I don't think people do make an overly big fuss; when the general standard of the forum is to carefully proof your posts, then I have to say that I don't see anything wrong with pointing it out.
I'd also add, however, that there are polite and impolite ways of doing so, and that generally it's my experience that here at Hatrack people will tend towards the polite, unless they feel that the poster concerned isn't making any effort to address the issue.
That, of course, is just my 0.02c
Posts: 466 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I am not saying it isn't helpful, or shouldn't be done (now), I am just saying people make a GIGANTIC deal out of it.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I'm afraid there's more to it than that. The thing is, if you irritate people on a totally separate front they're less likely to give you a pass on the grammar. Just human nature.
In your particular case, I'd guess it's a combination of refusing to conform to the norms around here (established years ago and adhered to by, well, everyone who stays around), arrogance, and general pandering.
------
But, on the grammar/spelling end of things, every time we have this discussion we get some people complaining that their grammar attracts more posts than their content. And they're probably right. You have to understand, though, that on a forum your words are all there is. There's no voice, no tone, and no gestures. Just your words. If you don't show enough respect for what you're saying to give it a cursory glance to remove any glaring typos or grammatical errors I can't see why anyone else should, either.
If someone comes up to you in real life and yells something obscure, are you going to seriously take the time to cross examine them and see what it was they meant to say? Or are you going to give them a strange look and continue on your merry way?
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Reticulum: I am saying not it isn't helpful, or shouldn't be done (now), I am just saying people make a GIGANTIC deal out of it.
Was it just me? Or did that post make no sense whatsoever?
Edit: I see now. There is a double negative. Tricky things those double negatives.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Yes, yes I am. I have been swayed through the power of logic. My only complaint now, is that people make a HUGE deal of it, including my self. ( )
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Thanks, El. I was trying to make that respect point too but was having a hard time finding appropriate words.
Posts: 1215 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
It's painful to read poorly constructed sentences. If you can't present your arguments in a coherent fashion, it only shows how little respect you have for your interlocutors, the English language, and, in a way, your own argument.
It should be a big deal. I'm not saying that people should be rude about it, but I do think it's perfectly acceptable to point out mistakes in the hopes that the offender won't keep making them out of ignorance. It's beneficial to both parties.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
So, Reticulum, if you can learn the rules for run on sentences, why can't you learn them for commas? It is not that hard.
What bothers me is not the occasional typo or misplaced punctuation but the lack of caring about the language when posting. I love to see a post with lots of mistakes that asks forgiveness for the errors since the poster is from another country and still learning the language. That means they see the value in proper English but don't yet know all the rules. Posting huge grammatical, spelling, and punctuation errors even though you have spoken the language your entire life is inexcusable. Everyone makes mistakes and that is OK. What is not OK is to think there is nothing wrong with your mistakes. I don’t think this is just an age thing either. I have 7th grade students who are meticulous about being correct in their writing and that is so refreshing!
You, Reticulum, even admit that making mistakes is inconsiderate but you think it is OK to “shave off a few seconds.” Are you kidding? How long does it take to hit the shift key? And you have the audacity to complain about the complainers? You are making a big deal out of nothing. If someone is bothered enough by a mistake to say something about it, then it was probably a big mistake. Get over it or learn from it.
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:If someone comes up to you in real life and yells something obscure, are you going to seriously take the time to cross examine them and see what it was they meant to say? Or are you going to give them a strange look and continue on your merry way?
quote: You, Reticulum, even admit that making mistakes is inconsiderate but you think it is OK to “shave off a few seconds.” Are you kidding? How long does it take to hit the shift key?
Aha, I made that same point!
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I always figured that if you wanted people to take what you are saying seriously, you should say it in a manner that is as close to correct as possible. This doesn't mean that you can't have any mistakes or can't use any slang. It simply means that if every third word is spelled incorrectly and you have no idea what proper punctuation means, then you are a child and should not be taken seriously. Perhaps that view of things is impolite or unfair, but if I can't read your post without wondering how you managed to pass 6th grade english, I don't really care what you have to say.
posted
The thing I do with commas which may help you out is I try taking out the clause and seeing if the sentence makes sense without it. If it does, then the clause needs to be set off with commas. If it doesn't then it may not need to be. This isn't always the case, such as in this and the last two sentences. But I still find it helps me.
For example:
quote: But, on the grammar/spelling end of things, every time we have this discussion we get some people complaining that their grammar attracts more posts than their content
This is a sentence from my previous post. Notice that the sentence makes perfect sense if you remove the bolded part. That tells you it needs to be set off by commas. You can also remove the first word without affecting the clarity, so the same applies for that. You may have noticed that a number of the sentences in this post have one comma in the middle of them. Furthermore, the comma comes right before the second half of the sentence. You can tell it's the second half of the sentence because it starts with an article (but, then, furthermore, so). There's a name for that type of sentence, but for the life of me I can't remember it. When in doubt about commas, remember less is more.
[edit] I'm also positive that Jon Boy or someone else english-nerdy enough can find a half dozen comma errors in this post.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Reticulum: Im must KoM, this is a great thread. I myself, would deny it, since I really don't have a religion, but gradually let science explain everything. All (in my very controversial opinion, that none should heed) religion does, is give people a false beliefe so that they aren't afraid their entire lives. It also causes hatred, predjudice and war. It have its good sides though.
Reticulum,
I have a question for you. Given that you are capable of producing a post that is both clear, grammatically correct (in the main) and (nearly) devoid of spelling errors, what is the advantage you get from posting things like the above?
How much time is it saving you to do a slip-shod job as opposed to producing something that is well written?
Also, do you realize that the time savings for you translates into a major hassle for anyone who might want to read your post? As in the above quotation, I gave up after the 3rd word and didn't bother reading. dkw read it and gave me a translation, otherwise I wouldn't have ever known what it was you were wanting to say. I just quit on you because I find it too frustrating to try to decipher the gibberish and mentally correct all the mistakes and divine the meaning buried behind it all.
If people do puzzle through it, they probably each spend 10x longer figuring it out than you ever saved in sloppily generating it. In a sense, it's rude of you to think your posts are worth that effort on everyone else's part when you aren't willing to make that effort yourself.
It's as if you are telling us: IGNORE ME, I'M NOT WORTH YOUR TIME. While at the same time getting upset with people who don't develop a fine appreciation for the subtle wit and kernels of wisdom you bestow.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
It's probably also worth considering that the hyper-abbreviated, typo ridden style of posting which people generally object to here originally developed through a sort of need to get 'stream of conciousness' thinking down into chat forums such as AIM as fast as possible.
Given that one of Hatrack's oldest principles has always been that it is a forum for reasoned argument and discussion, I suspect that most people are unlikely to give 'high speed' style posting much credence, because it suggests a lack of thoughtful consideration on the part of the poster.
In correcting these sort of errors, generally I feel that people are trying to encourage thoughful debate, rather than just posting whatever comes into your head.
Edit to add: As ever, Bob beats me to my point, and makes it in a more erudite fashion than I could manage Posts: 466 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Well Bob, now you are just picking on me. Me? I concede that I hva been proven completely wrong, inside 50 minutes. Thank you everyone.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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cheiros, I mainly use semicolons for joining two sentences into one; it's the only punctuation mark which allows this. It prevents comma splices.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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