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Author Topic: Mormonism Questions
lem
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This is for Fugu13. I am very comfortable talking about the temple and ceremonies without fear of crossing any lines. I will try to be respectful to the LDS church in this post, as temple ceremonies are considered very personal and spiritual at a core level for many believers.

If anyone feels I have crossed a line, let me know or flag this for deletion. I will try and answer address Fugu13 with information I believe is available to the public. Let me know if you feel otherwise. I have gone to pre-temple classes, seminary, institute, a mission, and have been married in the temple.

Even tho I stopped believing, I know the depth of sacredness others find in the temple.

Fugu...there really is no such thing as "priesthood ceremonies." All ceremonies, ordinances, callings, et cetera are done by the power of the priesthood--making them all priesthood ordinances. Both genders get the blessings of the ordinances. Woman can be healed by the power of priesthood. Being sealed for time and all eternity is done by the priesthood and benefits both couples equally. Both genders can enjoy the benefits of baptism.

The temple has 4 common priesthood ceremonies (or blessings). Baptisms for the Dead (done in proxy), Washing and Anointing (where Mormons prepare to get the garments which are sacred LDS undergarments used both as a protection and a reminder of temple promises. The Washing and Anointing is similar to the cleansing metaphor of baptism), Endowments (where Mormons witness the creation and take oaths with promises and blessings), and Sealings (like temple marriage where families are sealed for eternities).

Anti Mormon literature usually refers to the endowments. The endowments are where there are signs, tokens, promises, blessings, et cetera. They are very simple and can be very spiritual.

Most Mormons I have talked to are either initially disappointed at how...un-mysterious the ordinances are or freaked out by how much ceremony is involved in the temple. The LDS faith doesn't have a lot of ceremony like the Catholic Church. That all changes in the temple.

It doesn't take long for people to get spiritual nourishment in the ceremony. It is faith promoting and peaceful. Not all Mormons have one of those two initial reactions--but I would guess most do.

The changes you are talking about happened in the endowments. There used to be signs, tokens, promises, blessings, AND warnings and consequences--punishments. It is all metaphor for spiritual consequences, but it is easy for anti-Mormons (the kind I disagree with) to read to the words and sensationalize what was removed. Some of the text of the endowment ceremony was altered and characters were taken out of the play. This is what anti-Mormons refer to as changes in the temple.

The Rabbit actually is referring to this process when s/he wrote
quote:
Members made a covenant that they would not reveal the secrets of the temple even under threat of death. Which is completely and underly different than saying that they would be killed if they revealed the secret.
S/he is very aware of the changes and is very correct when s/he points out that no-one has been punished for revealing the sacred aspects of the temple. I do disagree that calling them "oaths of punishments is a gross distortion."

They were threats with threatening gestures to accompany them; HOWEVER, Rabbit is correct in pointing out that apostates have not been killed. Their fate is much more eternal.

In the early days of the Church when Young was taming the Frontier, it is possible individuals took the oaths of punishments too seriously. Like I said in a previous post,
quote:
If I remember correctly, the book says there was less violence from the Mormon towns then in contemporary towns of the time. What was different was the type of violence.
Edit Grammer.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
They were threats with threatening gestures to accompany them.
I continue to disagree with this statement. There were gestures which went along with oaths, but there were not threats. A threat is an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage (Webster). This was never done or implied in the temple ceremony. Participants in the endowment were asked to promise that they would allow themselves to be killed rather than reveal the temple secrets. That is in no way an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury or damage. Telling someone you will them if they reveal a secret and asking them to promise that they would not reveal something even if they are threatened are utterly different. The first is a threat, the second is absolutely not a threat and to call this a threat is a gross distortion.
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Papa Janitor
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I think we're moving a bit too close to specifics about the temple ceremonies, and we've been asked not to discuss them here. If people still wish to discuss various aspects of the ceremonies, I'd appreciate it if you would do so off the forum. Thank you.

--PJ

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