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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Lets hear it for the good guys--The Patriot Gaurd

   
Author Topic: Lets hear it for the good guys--The Patriot Gaurd
Dan_raven
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We have a wide range of people here, conservative, liberal, moderate, religious, irreligious, etc.

There are some here who pro-war and some who are anti-war, but there are a few things I think everyone here agrees on.

1) The Soldiers in Iraq, for the vast majority, should be honored and celebrated. Those who have died should recieve a hero's funeral.

2) Fred Phelps is a wart on the face of Christianity, a public nuisance, and a closed minded idiot.

3) Phelps anti-homosexual protests at the funerals of our soldiers is wrong.

So lets send out a great big "GREAT JOB" to those who have found a way to do something about it.

The Patriot Guard is a group of veterans and motorcycle enthusiasts who travel from funeral to funeral waving the flag and demonstrating the nations true respect to her soldiers and her family.

Everyone join me in giving this group a rousing [The Wave]

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Tinros
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[The Wave]
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Fyfe
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Oh good. I've known about the WBC's funeral protests for ages, and it's so good to hear that someone's actually doing something about it.

Jen

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Bokonon
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Go team!

-Bok

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Belle
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Good deal. I absolutely agree with all the things you posted.
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TL
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I don't.

quote:
The Soldiers in Iraq, for the vast majority, should be honored and celebrated.
Why? What are they contributing to society or to the progress of mankind? In my opinion, a person who willingly makes himself a weapon of war is a person who has no respect for the sanctity of human life. He's a person who would kill in the name of an ideal; a zealot; a maniac. And is almost certainly *with a few exceptions* undeserving of honor or celebration.
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Scott R
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quote:
In my opinion, a person who willingly makes himself a weapon of war is a person who has no respect for the sanctity of human life.
How do you feel about the police?

I think your opinion is way off base and without a foundation in reason.

quote:
The Soldiers in Iraq, for the vast majority, should be honored and celebrated. Those who have died should recieve a hero's funeral.
I'm uneasy about this, though by and large, I agree. I'm not sure why exactly I am uneasy-- I wonder, though, if this focus on the soldierly hero isn't a bit excessive.

I'm a bit more interested in the civilian-as-hero then I am in the soldier-as-hero.

If we had more patriotic, liberty-minded citizens, I don't think the President would be nearly so blase' about his domestic espionage programs. The citizen-soldier (as opposed to just the soldier) is more vital to the freedom of the country than the armed forces.

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Tresopax
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quote:
There are some here who pro-war and some who are anti-war, but there are a few things I think everyone here agrees on.

1) The Soldiers in Iraq, for the vast majority, should be honored and celebrated. Those who have died should recieve a hero's funeral.

I don't think it is safe to say that everyone agrees that we should honor and celebrate soldiers fighting for a cause they don't agree with via methods they don't agree with. After all, how many people think the terrorists should recieve a hero's funeral in their own countries? I suspect not too many.
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Scott R
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My concerns aside, bravo for the Patriot Guard. It is a completely admirable thing that they're doing.
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Dan_raven
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Treso--I was saying that all here believe in honoring the commitments and dedication of US Soldiers, at least those who don't disgrace themselves, their uniforms, and thier country (ie, the torturing Abu Graib guards and others do not deserve this praise). I had yet to see any sign that people believed that the US Soldiers were bad people, wrong, or simply wasting their lives.

There is a difference in the motivation between a terrorist and a professional soldier. One is seeking to die for fame and glory and kill as many others as possible. The other dies despite their desire to live, but in order to serve their fellow countrymen, protect their country, and do so causing as little damage and death to non-enemies as possible.

Sure, you may be against the war, and against those who orchestrated it and especially those who fouled it up, but those politicians, generals, and policy guru's are not the soldiers who have died.

We don't honor US Soldiers for the way they die. We honor them for the way they lived.

TL, before you make so strong a comment on people willing to die for you, get to know them. Meet some soldiers and find out why they are doing what they are doing, and find out exactly what they are doing.

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KarlEd
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My kudos to anyone who does something to stand up against Fred Phelps.

My favorite example is enacted in the play The Laramie Project. When Phelps was given permission to demonstrate in the park across from the church where Matthew Shepherd's funeral was being held, several members of the community got together to do something about it. On the day of the funeral, they arrived dressed as angels with 12 foot tall wings, and created a living wall of white that completely screened funeral attendees from Phelp's demonstration. I understand this was a re-enactment of something that actually happened. I hope so. [Smile]

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TL
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quote:
TL, before you make so strong a comment on people willing to die for you, get to know them. Meet some soldiers and find out why they are doing what they are doing, and find out exactly what they are doing.
What makes you think I haven't...

*honestly perplexed*

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Scott R
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Because you posted something that some of us who also know soldiers and ex-soldiers find very incongruous with the men and women we know.
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imogen
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Phelps (I just can't give him the title of Rev.) both worries and baffles me. And these recent protests strike me as utterly bizarre.

(On a side note - I was reading about them in one of the Australian newspapers. The headline didn't mention Phelps, just "fundamentalist Christians" or something like that. The first third of the article only mentioned the name of his church [which I didn't recognise]. I was getting all agitated, until the article made the Phelps connection. And then I was relieved it was a known loony.)

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TL
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Why is it incongruous? The soldiers you know would *not* kill in the name of an ideal? The soldiers you know are *not* weapons of war, tools in the arsenal of decision-makers?
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Tresopax
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quote:
There is a difference in the motivation between a terrorist and a professional soldier. One is seeking to die for fame and glory and kill as many others as possible. The other dies despite their desire to live, but in order to serve their fellow countrymen, protect their country, and do so causing as little damage and death to non-enemies as possible.
The difference between the two descriptions you gave is thin when it comes to motivations. I suspect terrorists also die despite a desire to live, sacrifice their life in order to serve God (rather than their country), and do so to protect their people. Beyond this, the difference is mainly in the methods they consider acceptable to achieve that goal, and the degree to which we think (or don't think) what they are doing actually does help their people. I suspect most of us would agree the terrorists are shooting their own people and culture in the foot, and doing so in a morally unacceptable fashion, despite what they may think they are doing. So, for those who think the U.S. is using unacceptable methods to achieve its goals and who think those goals do not actually help the American people, it is reasonable to think they might not want to honor those soldiers.

I don't agree though. Frankly, I don't see any reason why anybody should not be honored at their funeral - especially if they sacrificed their life doing something that they considered morally important. That could include soldiers, terrorists, civilians, whatever.

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Stephan
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Regardless of whether or not we should even respect the soldiers for what they do, only a vile and cruel person would protest at a funeral where loved friends and family say their final goodbyes.
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kmbboots
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I'm with Dan on this. That their sacrifice has been, I believe, misused, does not detract one bit from the enormity and gallant nature of the sacrifice our soldiers make. One of the reasons I am so outraged at this war is because I do not think that the enormity of that sacrifice was (or even now, is) fully comprehended by the people who made the decision to go to war. (see "cakewalk").
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Stasia
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quote:
Originally posted by Stephan:
Regardless of whether or not we should even respect the soldiers for what they do, only a vile and cruel person would protest at a funeral where loved friends and family say their final goodbyes.

I second this. I was fighting with the right words but then you said it perfectly for me.
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Irregardless
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan_raven:

There are some here who pro-war and some who are anti-war, but there are a few things I think everyone here agrees on.

1) The Soldiers in Iraq, for the vast majority, should be honored and celebrated. Those who have died should recieve a hero's funeral.

I think you are naively optimistic.
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kmbboots
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I am very anti-this-war-in-particular. I have spent a lot (though, clearly not enough) time at protests, lectures, meetings, and so forth. If you count this thread, I have heard the soldiers themselves disparaged exactly twice.
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Sterling
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Even if you oppose the war to the point of derision towards the soldiers themselves, Phelps and his ilk aren't opposing them for anything having to do with the war. They're opposing them in the psychotic belief that they're being punished for fighting for a country that harbors homosexuals.

I'll echo the approval of the Patriot Guard.

[The Wave]

As far as Phelps and his Christians-in-name-only, perhaps he should be feel lucky for the freedoms of speech, assembly, and religion.

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Stan the man
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Dan, I back you on this. What the Patriot Guard is doing is fantastic.

To anyone who has something against the soldiers (I don't care if you're against the war, just the soldiers)...there are words that I have for you, but I can not write them on this forum. How can you sit there and put down those that are willing to take a bullet so that you can waste your life playing as you please? Yes, I said waste. Because it seems to me that I am being told that we waste ours by being in the service.

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Bella Bee
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I oppose the war. Vehemently.

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether our soldiers who are now dying in Iraq should have a respectful funeral service. Funerals are a chance for family and friends to say goodbye to someone that they love. Anyone who disrespects people who are hurting at such a time shouldn't have the right to call themselves human.

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