posted
I'm working on a paper for a C. S. Lewis journal and my topic is on liminality in the Narnia books. I'm mostly done, however I want to work on one particular point yet that was brought up in a bit by Francis Spufford that I read on how reading the books made him feel uncomfortable, as though he'd been drawn too far into the story and how he did not want to accept some of the challenges it presented, especially at the end of The Last Battle. I've been googling and such, but I'm having difficulty coming up with a source that talks about this uncomfortable feeling, or even acknowledges it.
So I suppose this thread has a double purpose: please help me find an article or find that there is no such article, and do you feel the same way? Do you ever feel embarassed or uncomfortable when presented with a liminal challenge in a book or that you've been taken in so far that you feel involved in such a rite?
(Just in case, a liminality refers to a state seperated from society where one experiences personal changes before one is reaggregated, or returned, to their society. Think of Ged in A Wizard of Earthsea when he's passing through the pool and when he's running from his shadow.)
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posted
I'm not sure if it's exactly what you mean, but I remember while reading The Wind-up Bird Chronicle, I felt almost like my state of consciousness or reality itself was alterred - basically it felt really weird.
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posted
Lots of people have commented on loving the books up to the point where Aslan shows the children that the dwarves "can't see because they don't believe."
Dwarves or Susan-- it all comes down to midgets and fashionable chicks.
posted
I can't tell, I haven't read the Narnia books, yet. Nevertheless, I think I do know this state, even if it's rare. Then, I usually feel unable to think about anything else but what happens in this other world and I'm irritated if someone wants to talk to me or if I'm supposed to stop reading. I'm kind of paralysed. Everything seems to be surreal. It's such a bitter-sweet state, like being in love with someone who doesn't even now you. Really, it's a bit like being lovesick. It hurts, it frightens you a bit, and when it's finally over, you feel numb for some time.
However, I'm not sure if this is what you mean.
Maybe you can find indirectly something with the keywords surreality and metafiction. Certainly, it's not the same, but I think those terms have something in common regarding the effect.
According to Patricia Waugh, “metafiction” is
"a term given to fictional writing which self-consciously and systematically draws attention to its status as an artefact [sic] in order to pose questions about the relationship between fiction and reality. In providing a critique of their own methods of construction, such writings not only examine the fundamental structures of narrative fiction, they also explore the possible fictionality of the world outside the literary fictional text."
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posted
I remember feeling that way at various points (mostly the endings) in several of the Narnia books.
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posted
There are several moments in the Narnia books which, when recognized as evangelical arguments, became uncomfortable for me. I'd imagine that many people feel the same way about Pullman.
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posted
I've only read two of the Narnia books, so I can't comment on that (and Lewis's theology probably wouldn't make me uncomfortable anyway), but Tom nailed it on my reaction to Pullman.
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posted
I didn't mind Pullman at all, really, except where he marginalized the 'believers' (on the harpies' island). I was much less disturbed by his Authority than I was by his portrayal of people who believe in religion.
posted
My reactions to His Dark Materials were complex. I was completely and totally immersed in the story, and although I know longer remember the details that well, I don't recall being too bothered by the iconoclastic stuff through most of the story--depictions of believers included. I mean, history bears out that there have been a lot of evil so-called religious folk. But, yeah, I did get to the end and feel like I was being beaten over the head with a message that was distasteful to me, personally. And I guess all the more distasteful because I felt like I wasn't the audience the message was aimed at, but impressionable children were.
I didn't know a thing about the series or about Pullman when I read it, but afterwards when I read some interviews he pretty much expressed the same reaction to Narnia that I did to his work.
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posted
Pinky, that seems to describe the feeling rather well. I really find that no matter what the story is, or the situation within it, if it is a well-told story, I am drawn into the experiences of the characters and desire to feel them even deeper. I kind of suspect that may be why people label fantasy as escapism, but I rather find that I learn a lot from these books.
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posted
It really bothers me now when authors don't love all the characters in their books, even the evil ones. Not that they should gloss over or pretend evil is really good, but they should see and recognize the character's viewpoint, and have sympathy, empathy, and love for them despite their flaws.
I keep feeling it's extremely unfair to a character for his or her own author to despise him. I keep thinking that they have a viewpoint that's not being recognized or given a fair hearing, and I tend to start taking their side. I can think of numerous examples of this in many works of fiction, but in particular (books people here would have read) I think Ruth (the first, jilted fiance) in Enchantment, and Lot's wife (Rebecca's sister?) in Rebecca, got totally raw deals from Uncle Orson. For instance, Ruth had a real grievance. Being engaged is a promise, and if Ivan (whom I otherwise thought was great) broke his promise, he should have at least recognized that she had a legitimate grievance, and been as gentle and kind to her, and as understanding of her grief (similar to a widow's, only worse, because her husband left under his own will) and loss as possible. Instead, she is depicted as a total witch, almost on par with Baba Yagi.
It's too easy when all the people we wrong are seen as badguys, and so deserving. Ruth was not a badguy when he jilted her. She should have resisted the temptation to bitterness, and so on, but that doesn't mean Ivan wasn't being a jerk for breaking the engagement. Note, I think he made the right choice, but I just think he should have acknowledged that he hurt her badly, and be sorry for it.
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posted
Does that count as a liminal feeling? I don't think I understand, really, what liminal feelings are.
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posted
Here's a paragraph from my paper describing what I mean by liminality:
quote:First, it would be appropriate to discuss what liminality exactly is and how it pertains to rites of passage. Victor Turner, a cultural anthropologist who popularised concept of liminal ritual, references Dr. Arnold Van Gennep, suggesting a paradigm for the liminal experience. That is, “separation; margin (or limen); and reaggregation. The first and last speak for themselves; they detach ritual subjects from their old places in society and return them, inwardly transformed and outwardly changed, to new places” (48). The liminality is what stands in between the subject’s former and latter state. It is in this place that stands outside of usual space and time and in this place the subject, the liminary, experiences a change in their state, their “place, social position, [or] age” (48) in society.
The book I'm quoting in this passage is Blazing the Trail, by Dr. Victor Turner.
So what I mean by a liminal feeling is an intense feeling caused by being drawn into that state with a character in a story. A character who is in a liminal situation is generally a main character.
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