This opinion article makes the point that Superman hasn't alweays been assoociated with the expression and that just saying "Turth and Justice" and omiting "the American Way" is consistent with the roots of the character. Interesting history, but beside the point. Fact is that for over sixty years superman has been identified with "truth, justice and the American way." I can appreciate that the studio wants to make the character more international to recoup it's money and not risk alienating foreign markets, but I can't help to feel that the character loses something in the process. The "American Way" is now also absent in the comic book, BTW.
I'm curious about how you non-American fans of Superman feel about Superman as an American Icon representing Truth, Justice and the American Way. From your standpoint, were the studio's concerns justified?
Posts: 407 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Because the patriotic scene with the flag at the end of Spiderman drove away so many foreign movie-goers.
Interesting. First I hear of that. (I don't remember the flag waving in Spiderman, but I'll take your word on it.) From all I've read both movies were great successes overseas. On what do you base your allegation that foreign movie-goers were avoided the movie because of a patriotic scene?
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To be more clear, the patriotic sentiment in Spiderman in no way affected sales of the movie overseas - so some perceived fear about a patriotic scene in Superman seems silly to me.
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I'm rather baffled by the fact that this apparently merited mention in the Times. Does anyone on Earth actually care?
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The patriotic sentiment in Spider-Man also came after 9/11 but before the latest Iraq war, when international opinions changed, so it could be a valid concern.
That said, I think they should have left it in. Superman stands for our ideals, not necessarily all of our actions or any particular political party, in power or not.
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If it's currently absent in other formats (and apparently has been absent in other formats for some time), wouldn't it be more accurate to say that they didn't add it than that they removed it?
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The "American Way" thing really isn't a core part of the character. It's a catchy slogan. Nothing more.
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Well, if the core of the character is wanted, how about that catchy slogan from the forties, "Slap a Jap today! Buy war bonds!"?
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I'm not really sure what "The American Way" really is or whether I want to have my heroes subscribing to it...
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Well, I would be totally happy to have my heroes subscribe to "truth and justice: the American way" but I'm not sure it works that way.
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quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: The "American Way" thing really isn't a core part of the character. It's a catchy slogan. Nothing more.
You can argue that it no longer is part of the character but you can't argue it was never that way. Superman used to bust up corrupt union leaders and politicians because he was making America safe. There is even a series done about what if Superman's capsule had landed in the Soviet Union and he subsequentially became the Communist Poster Boy? If they can do THAT "what if" in the 90's then there is certainly still a sentiment that Superman is our (our = America's) poster boy.
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I always thought the American Way was more of an ideal than a representation of our current actions. But I could easily see how "The American Way" today could mean something totally different than it did 50 years ago.
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I don't think the phrase makes sense any more. Truth, Justice, and America don't have a lot in common today.
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Superman isn't so much into wiretapping and the Patriot act, so he's distancing himself from all the politics.
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I'm rather baffled by the fact that this apparently merited mention in the Times. Does anyone on Earth actually care?
Apparently, yes. This saddens me.
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I'm rather baffled by the fact that this apparently merited mention in the Times. Does anyone on Earth actually care?
Why?
quote:Originally posted by blacwolve: Apparently, yes. This saddens me.
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This post was unfair and angry, and since I can't think of anything constructive to say, I'm going to back out of this thread.
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Well, the way I see it, the scene was played out exactly like it should be. The sentence flowed better and seemed more in character for a fast talking journalist who's heading up a war meeting and trying to rush through things, get things started. It's the way he would talk and the way I would've played the character myself.
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Sorry, but I feel that there has to be the obligatory mention of the fact that Superman was created by a Canadian, Metropolis was originally based on Toronto, and the Daily Planet based on the Toronto Star.
Please resume your discussion now.
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Because there are literally thousands of interesting things happening all over the world. And in the latest Superman movie alone, there were at least four interesting things. There's no way all of them were already addressed by the Times, which means that someone considered this almost completely inconsequential issue more interesting for some reason than almost everything else in the entire world that day. Baffling.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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You must be baffled every day by the Times then.
The article was about the catch phrase of the oldest superhero still published, who has appeared in every popular medium. The catch phrase was changed. To the extent they write any article about any movie's pop-culture effects, this isn't anything unusual.
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I find it ironic that a blog with such a rabidly anti-immigration stance would have Kal-el (Superman), an illegal alien (in both senses of the word), as it's icon.
quote: The article was about the catch phrase of the oldest superhero still published, who has appeared in every popular medium.
Maybe that's the problem. I've been a regular Superman reader for years, and had no idea that anyone thought "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" was still his catchphrase until I saw this article.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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<---- Canadian [et British, which might colour my statement a bit so I thought to mention.]
quote:American Way
First of all, I wouldn't know what this meant. Presumably something about Good Guys vs. Bad Guys, probably 'truth' and 'justice' are included in there. Something about Communists/Nazis vs. Democracy etc. Indiana Jones, Jack Ryan, Superman.
Personally, I think these kinds of statements [The "American Way", the "British Way", the "Canadian Way" etc.] very weak for a couple of reasons. 1: The older a country gets, the more likely it is to become 'stained' and the 'way' more difficult to throw off in such a phrase. 2: It's never just Good Guys vs. Bad Guys in real life, which the phrase implies is involved. 3: There is no one 'way'. I think you'd have a hard time finding even two people who would agree exactly what the 'way' is.
I'd be wary of using such a phrase because it's so very shallow for these reasons. It flattens the country referred to and the world in contrast. It's also a bit campy, a bit oldy-worldy. A bit New Hope. A bit kid's comic book. Better to stick to "truth" and "justice"- two fuzzy, but nevertheless unarguable and spotless qualities. The director seemed like a bright sparky kind of guy when I saw him in a Superman documentry. He would know that using such a phrase would be- wrong.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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For all this talk of "Truth, Justice and the American Way", it remains indisputable that Superman is, indeed, an undocumented alien, and, if many patriotic, conservative Americans had their way, he would be deported.
posted
For all this talk of "Truth, Justice and the American Way", it remains indisputable that Superman is, indeed, an undocumented alien, and, if many patriotic, conservative Americans had their way, he would be deported.
I'm a legal immigrant and one of those patriotic conservatives. I don't think any patriotic conservative Americans would call for the deportation of Clark Kent/Superman, especially because of the fact of his extraordinary powers and that his home planet blew up. All other illegal aliens, sure lets deport them all.
Posts: 407 | Registered: Mar 2006
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I find it a bit funny that all it takes to get all the America bashers to come out of the wood work is a slogan from Super Man. I think half the problem with everything now a days is you can't really be polite and cheer on a side. Unless it pertains to sports, but even that can be dangerous now a days. I would hate to run through England with a Portugese jersey on.
What is everyones problem with living with the facts of life? If you dig deep enough everyone has done something stupid. The only thing history should be good for to a lot of you is showing how bottling up all your emotions and feelings on a subject tends to let it get released in a rather violent manner.
Guess what people as an American you live in the most powerful nation on earth, of course its going to become slightly imperial. The interesting thing is its not the governments fault, its the peoples. Everyone wants more, and wants it on a regular drip. The nation really generally only does what its people demand of it. Sometimes I think America should become isloationist again, not just to let the rest of the world suffer, but Americans as well. People never learn though, that is a good historical lesson. In that vein its a good thing that the government does so many things that irritate a portion of the populace. If you look at it Americans are losing their right to liberty and freedom everday, and it is their own fault. We are too middle class, too scared to lose what great bounty we have. That and it is understandable those that have much tend to risk very little.
The sad thing is that it will be patriots, people who love the people of the United States of America, that will fix things if it ever happens. Sadly those people will continue to be denounced by both sides, the "patriot" and those who find anyone that takes anything close of an actual realistic side offensive.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: May 2001
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What I find interest are those responses that focus on individual policy differences with the Bush admin, and let those issue stand for the "American way." I think that this approach loses sight of the bigger picture: disagreeing on policy issues and feeling free to express those disagreements is part of what it means to have an American way. Sure there are now other democracies out there, but we were first, we lead the way, and are now still leading the way.
When the poop hits the fan anywhere in the world, where does the world look to first, and blame if nothing is done fast enough. Where do the world's look to to for a brighter future (I'm looking at you Mexico): the US. The US is a beacon of hope, and has been since its inception. It's offered help when no one else can. That's why "the American Way" has fitted Superman so well.
It's funny how it seems that illegal aliens risking their lives in the deserts of the Southwest in search of opprotunity and a better life may have a better sense of what the American way is than pampered leftests and America-haters here in the US.
Posts: 407 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I still don't understand what "the American way" means. Clearly not "truth" and "justice", as those have already been covered and I assume Supes doesn't stand for redundancy (although I could be wrong). Does it mean he stands for furthering America interests internationally? For upholding the American constitution domestically? Preserving the status quo of American social mores? Is the American way supposed to be simply hope for the future (in America)?
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Firstly, my apologies for reviving this thread, but hey, it's been an awfully slow day at work. So forgive me...
The phrase 'The American Way' IMO shouldn't be connected with Superman. It's probably more fitting to have Captain America say things like that. I say this because most interpret the phrase as being fiercely nationalistic/patriotic.
As for the meaning of the phrase in question, I feel that it's entirely too vague to attach any particular meaning to it. I shall, however, endeavour to find one that won't upset too many people.
My explanation of "The American Way": When known solutions do not seem to work, look for a new way, but always with the good of the general public in mind.
This is in fact nothing more than a description of what the first settlers did. so, "The American Way" to my mind doesn't mean: 'in an American manner', but something more along the lines of: 'in the way that once led to the creation of America'
I hope I haven't confused the matter any further...
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