quote: Star Wars is bigger, better, cooler, more fun, more entertaining, more timeless, and more interesting. Also, it has FAR, FAR, FAR more products associated with it, which is good, because you can never own too much Star Wars stuff...ever.
(bolding mine)
And this, my friends, is why we are all doomed. DOOMED, I tell you!
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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Well, in battle, I'd say that the Star Wars has a distinct advantage--Death Star and Imperial Cruisers out weigh and out gun anything the Federation has developed. A Borg Cube Ship, or even a Q would make the difference. I imagine the faster firing rate of the Cube would defeat the Star, but I prefer to compare the main fleets.
For small ships, none of the Star Trek run abouts or shuttles could compare with Tie Fighters of X-Wings. Although some of the DS-9 era small ships shown in their battles might compete, hands down Star Wars wins again.
Hand to hand fighting would lean mostly to Star Trek. Sure the Jedi Light Sabers would shatter even Klingon Batlats. But the Phasers seem to be a heck of a lot more accurate than the Star Wars Blasters. The Accuracy rate of either Storm Trooper or Rebel is only about 1 in 30 shots while Federation Personel usually hit about 95% of their targets.
The Alien advantage is a bit difficult to count, since neither side really limit their combatants to mostly young white human males. With Star Wars you have Wookies, but you also have Ewoks. For every battling Yoda, you have a Jar-Jar. Star Wars not only has Klingons to kick backside, but Romulans to stab backs, Vulcan's to out think your tactics, and even Ferengie to rob the corpses. (An economic war between the Hutt's and the Ferengi would be about equal.) I have to say that Star Trek gets the Alien Advantage.
The final question is comparing the big guns--Star Wars has The Force. Star Trek has Techno-Babble.
The Force can make a whimp into a kicking warrior, levitate objects, and send evil electricity out of fingers. It can even cloud the minds of less intelligent people.
Technobabble can do, well, anything.
Especially, it can cloud the minds of the more intelligent people, bringing them to a boiling rage or leaving them in a confused stupor. (They are doing what by reversing the polarity of the deflector dish? Since when do dishes have polarity?)
Hence, I must give the intergalactic battle to Star Trek.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Yeh, Ret, the Star Wars franchise would greatly benefit from the loss of George Lucas... preferably if one could go back in time and, um, "lose" him before he ruined Eps 1-3.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Star Wars 4-6 definitely beats any of the Star Trek movies in my opinion. But Deep Space Nine is still my favorite sci fi saga out of everything.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Well, in battle, I'd say that the Star Wars has a distinct advantage--Death Star and Imperial Cruisers out weigh and out gun anything the Federation has developed. A Borg Cube Ship, or even a Q would make the difference. I imagine the faster firing rate of the Cube would defeat the Star, but I prefer to compare the main fleets.
For small ships, none of the Star Trek run abouts or shuttles could compare with Tie Fighters of X-Wings. Although some of the DS-9 era small ships shown in their battles might compete, hands down Star Wars wins again.
Of course Star Wars ships would win--the laws of physics don't even remotely apply in Star Wars-land. What might make up the difference is incompetent strategists (for example, whoever thought that a shield that stops laser weapons but not metal was worth spending money on in Episode 1).
Posts: 170 | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Yeh, Ret, the Star Wars franchise would greatly benefit from the loss of George Lucas... preferably if one could go back in time and, um, "lose" him before he ruined Eps 1-3.
Not in my opinion. 1-3 were just as good as 4-6, maybe, if not BETTER. I don't really see why people think they're so bad.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: Well, in battle, I'd say that the Star Wars has a distinct advantage--Death Star and Imperial Cruisers out weigh and out gun anything the Federation has developed. A Borg Cube Ship, or even a Q would make the difference. I imagine the faster firing rate of the Cube would defeat the Star, but I prefer to compare the main fleets.
For small ships, none of the Star Trek run abouts or shuttles could compare with Tie Fighters of X-Wings. Although some of the DS-9 era small ships shown in their battles might compete, hands down Star Wars wins again.
Hand to hand fighting would lean mostly to Star Trek. Sure the Jedi Light Sabers would shatter even Klingon Batlats. But the Phasers seem to be a heck of a lot more accurate than the Star Wars Blasters. The Accuracy rate of either Storm Trooper or Rebel is only about 1 in 30 shots while Federation Personel usually hit about 95% of their targets.
The Alien advantage is a bit difficult to count, since neither side really limit their combatants to mostly young white human males. With Star Wars you have Wookies, but you also have Ewoks. For every battling Yoda, you have a Jar-Jar. Star Wars not only has Klingons to kick backside, but Romulans to stab backs, Vulcan's to out think your tactics, and even Ferengie to rob the corpses. (An economic war between the Hutt's and the Ferengi would be about equal.) I have to say that Star Trek gets the Alien Advantage.
The final question is comparing the big guns--Star Wars has The Force. Star Trek has Techno-Babble.
The Force can make a whimp into a kicking warrior, levitate objects, and send evil electricity out of fingers. It can even cloud the minds of less intelligent people.
Technobabble can do, well, anything.
Especially, it can cloud the minds of the more intelligent people, bringing them to a boiling rage or leaving them in a confused stupor. (They are doing what by reversing the polarity of the deflector dish? Since when do dishes have polarity?)
Hence, I must give the intergalactic battle to Star Trek.
If you had read some of the Star Wars fan fic that Lucas has given his blessing to. You would realize that in the Star Wars universe, planets can be moved by the force, and there is a ship (The size of 1.5 Xwings) called the "Suncrusher" that destroys entire solar systems.
I can concede several of your points, even add that in the star wars universe light speed travel is only the pitily Full Impulse of the Star Trek universe. I think Star Wars would win in a straight fight, but Star Trek vehicles could easily slip away to fight another day no Star Wars vehicle could keep up with a ship going at warp 1 even.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: Well, in battle, I'd say that the Star Wars has a distinct advantage--Death Star and Imperial Cruisers out weigh and out gun anything the Federation has developed. A Borg Cube Ship, or even a Q would make the difference. I imagine the faster firing rate of the Cube would defeat the Star, but I prefer to compare the main fleets.
For small ships, none of the Star Trek run abouts or shuttles could compare with Tie Fighters of X-Wings. Although some of the DS-9 era small ships shown in their battles might compete, hands down Star Wars wins again.
[total geekage]The weapons (other than the Death Star superlaser) on most Star Wars universe ships are simple lasers, which, based on some TNG episodes would have no effect on the shielded ST Universe ships.
The Sun Crusher is a stupid KJA creation, and I'm stupider for having read those stupid, stupid books.
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Wow this thread got long since I went to bed. I havent been able to read everyone's posts casue I am on lunch but will when I get off and tally up votes so far.
Posts: 871 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by TheTick: [QUOTE] [total geekage]The weapons (other than the Death Star superlaser) on most Star Wars universe ships are simple lasers, which, based on some TNG episodes would have no effect on the shielded ST Universe ships.
The Sun Crusher is a stupid KJA creation, and I'm stupider for having read those stupid, stupid books.
I don't know, quantem armor, and the ability to destroy stars doesn't sound very stupid.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:If you had read some of the Star Wars fan fic that Lucas has given his blessing to. You would realize that in the Star Wars universe, planets can be moved by the force, and there is a ship (The size of 1.5 Xwings) called the "Suncrusher" that destroys entire solar systems.
Then why would anyone need a Death Star???
Posts: 170 | Registered: Mar 2001
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Reticulum, dude, are you trolling or something? I don't think you're going to find many people here who agree with your points.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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Edgehopper, in the bizarre mind of Kevin J. Anderson, the Suncrusher was a ship so heavily shielded that it could withstand a supernova without so much as a scratch or any harm to the person inside. In the books, it flew as though it was a bullet, blasting right through the shields and hulls of Star Destroyers. It had a weapon that was equally heavily shielded that could be fired into a star and trigger a chain reaction that would result in a nova. Such a weapon would be used to destroy entire solar systems, rather than just planets.
The model in the book was just a prototype, the next phase in the Empire's weapons development. At the merciful end of the trilogy of books, Luke lowered it into the star around Yavin 4 so that no one else could get their hands on it - though, being so shielded, it is perfectly intact should some other powerful Jedi (and crappy author) choose to raise it.
It wasn't even the worst concept in that awful trilogy.
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As an aside, I think Timothy Zahn and Joss Whedon need to get together to write and direct a Star Wars television series.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I count as "canon" only that which I choose to-- which includes Tim Zahn and Mike Stackpole's books, and excludes most of KJA's. Oh, and the NJO.
That is my right and privilege as a SW fan. You may have a different canon than I. Just don't fight with me about it.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Reticulum: I don't know, quantem armor, and the ability to destroy stars doesn't sound very stupid.
Yes it does.
Are you an SG-1 fan? Sam blew up a star. (Granted, the way she did it was a lot cooler and made a lot more sense.) I think my point is, it's not whether you blow up a star, it's how. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I've never seen an episode of Star Trek. Could I start with any series? I'm not planning on watching every episode ver created, I just want a little of the Best of Star Trek. Which series should I watch?
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Ehh... Stackpole's strength was in plotting and action. His dialogue was stilted and overly expository at best; occasionally, it was downright unreadable. Not a great recipe for a television showrunner, if you ask me.
Now Aaron Allston, on the other hand... a *Wraith* Squadron series by him, that I'd watch. His ability to write witty, intelligent dialogue is near-Whedonesque.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I'd say the series should be set either in the years leading up to A New Hope, or the years immediately following Return of the Jedi (ignoring Truce at Bakura). None of the major characters should be in it directly, though they could be mentioned or alluded to.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: I've never seen an episode of Star Trek. Could I start with any series? I'm not planning on watching every episode ver created, I just want a little of the Best of Star Trek. Which series should I watch?
If you want a little of the best, then you should watch a little of each series Except, of course, Enterprise. But TOS, TNG, DS9, and even sometimes Voyager all have their own strengths. And it depends on how much you appreciate things like technobabble and camp.
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And the worst thing is, if that dratted Lucas wasn't such a stingy dope, we'd probably have SW regular series.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Do we really want Jedi? I dunno... Jedi are like hot pepper flakes - best if used sparingly. If you read the books, the more Luke grew in power the less interesting he was.
I'd love to see a very Firefly-esque show with a group of smugglers or rebels experiencing the seedy sides of the galaxy and dodging Imperial patrols and stormtroopers. Maybe have it set in a time when Vader was doing Jedi-cleanup, finding the last of the Jedi who escaped and taking them out.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Kirk pulls out his phaser, grabs a manly pose, and fires.
Anakin snickers as he easily deflects the phaser fire with his light saber. Then with poise and ease he leaps into the air, doing a double somersault, to land behind Kirk. Immediately he brings down his Light Saber to cut Kirk in two.
But he's too late.
Kirk has already fallen into a crouch and he overdramatically rolls away.
The only thing Anankin's saber cut was Kirk's shirt, which falls away.
Kirk stands displaying his galacticlly renowned manly chest. Every woman watching the battle leers lustilly towards Kirk.
Even Imadala.
Anakin, seeing his love leering after Kirk, falls to his knees and screams "NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo!oo!"
Kahn, watching the fight, stands in his shirtless vest. The women of the universes turn their attention to this even more macho, gentically perfect pectorals.
Kirk falls to his knees and screams "KKKkaaaaaaaahhhhhhhnnnnnnnnn!"
The audience, judging Anakin's overacted scream to be the most horrendous, tear him into shreds.
posted
Come now, no one has ever complained about Indiana Jones have they? That's Team Lucaberg at work.
I'm waiting for two things to happen before I could make any sort of final list on what is best.
1. A Star Wars television show.
2. Firefly to be continued.
Until then, I can't put Firefly above DS9, and I can't put Star Wars above it either. DS9 reigns surpreme for me.
But either way, I think DS9 and Star Wars is better than Serenity, the movie. The television show is different, but there's still life left in it. I reserve judgement.
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"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD. Are you sure your circuits are functioning correctly? Your ears are green."
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Do we really want Jedi? I dunno... Jedi are like hot pepper flakes - best if used sparingly. If you read the books, the more Luke grew in power the less interesting he was.[quote]
Yeah, definitely. I mean, the prequels were full of Jedi, and look how they turned out.
[quote]I'd love to see a very Firefly-esque show with a group of smugglers or rebels experiencing the seedy sides of the galaxy and dodging Imperial patrols and stormtroopers.
Ooh, yes please. Can we fit Summer Glau and Morena Baccarin in there?
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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We'd need a show based on the Old Republic Jedi, who were diplomats, scientists, healers, not just warriors. There's a lot more potential there than just 'OOOH, he has a double-bladed lightsaber!' or 'OOOH, that robotty guy has FOUR lightsabers!!'.
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:As an aside, I think Timothy Zahn and Joss Whedon need to get together to write and direct a Star Wars television series.
OMG...this would be so awesome. The fact that it will never happen is saddening. why did you even have to suggest it??
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Wow my post was about the last page, I didn't even realize there was a second page to this thread.
There WILL be a live action show about Star Wars helmed by Lucas in the next year or so.
Personally, I'd rather Tim Zahn write a series, or write screenplays for movies VII - IX based on his Thrawn books.
I think the absolute best series would be based on Rogue Squadron, or Wraith Squadron, or both.
I think Lucas is far better at conceptualizing, producing, working in the back room behind the scenes than he is at screenplay writing, I think he's even a great director. Things only really fall apart when the entire thing is run by him. He still has a place in Star Wars, but it's a far reduced role from what he tried to do on the prequels.
I don't want any show or future movie to deal with anything before A New Hope. It's dead. Let's leave it there.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I'd like a series to detail what happened between Ep 3 and Ep 4 a bit. Birth of the rebellion, rise of the Empire, fighting from place to place, new bases when they're discovered - it can go right through A New Hope into Empire, too.
Or, contrarily, a series with the broken Empire scrambling to hold itself together after the Emperor and Vader die, with the rebels trying to seize control away from regional governors and systems still loyal to the imperial ideal.
The Thrawn trilogy should be movies 7-9, definitely.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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As for Lucas as director, aside from A New Hope, he has only ever directed three crappy star wars movies, THX-1138 and American Graffiti.
Let him produce... or tie him up and toss him in a closet somewhere. Bring in some directors who have a clue in their head what they are doing.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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The Star Wars movies, for their faults, weren't bad because of poor directing. American Graffiti was hailed and cheered when it came out, and ever since.
Either way though, I don't think he should direct much again, but what he is great at, he is REALLY great at. He shouldn't remove himself from film entirely.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: As for Lucas as director, aside from A New Hope, he has only ever directed three crappy star wars movies, THX-1138 and American Graffiti.
Let him produce... or tie him up and toss him in a closet somewhere. Bring in some directors who have a clue in their head what they are doing.
I thought he did Howard the Duck as well, but it seems that he only produced it. It's funny when you think of that movie being the reason Pixar came in to existance ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091225/trivia ).
"Untitled Clone Wars TV Series" (2007) TV Series (announced) (executive producer) "Untitled Star Wars TV Series" (2007) TV Series (announced) (executive producer) Indiana Jones 4 (2008) (pre-production) (executive producer)
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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His only positive directorial outings were almost three decades ago. His recent track record did not live up to his more positive beginnings by any stretch.
Eps 1-3 were bad because one person controlled all aspects of production, from concept to writing to directing to editing to screen. The would have benefited from a good editor to look over Lucas' shoulder and say "George, this part is clumsy, this is just poorly written, and this other part has some of the worst acting I've ever seen. Clean it up."
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: The Star Wars movies, for their faults, weren't bad because of poor directing. American Graffiti was hailed and cheered when it came out, and ever since.
Either way though, I don't think he should direct much again, but what he is great at, he is REALLY great at. He shouldn't remove himself from film entirely.
Direction isn't just coming up with great visuals (and I'd argue that while the prequels had great *technology*, the actual cinematography and art design were, by and large, dull and uninspired). An equally important part of direction is helping the actors to come up with great performances. Lucas is arguably decent at the former, but he's pretty much complete trash at the latter. Virtually every single actor in the prequels has done great work elsewhere (even Hayden Christenson), but Lucas' complete inability to direct his actors turned even the brilliant Liam Neeson into a wooden marionette.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk: If it came to an actual combat situation, we'd have a never ending stalemate.
"I take out your Enterprise with a precise hit to the 2-meter wide exhaust port!"
"I counter with a shift in the nutational shield frequencies!"
"I counter your counter by applying a Jedi mind trick to your captain!"
"My chief engineer reverses the polarity of the deflector shield generator to block the Force!"
"You can't do that, the Force flows through all things, even deflector shields!"
"But it only affects the weak-minded, so my captain is fine anyway!"
"Nerd!"
"Dork!"
et cetera, ad infinitum.
The Defiant (or any Romulan vessel) can take out the Death Star without the Death Star being able to put up a fight. There's such a disparity in fantasy technology between the two worlds that it's not even worth comparison.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Heres a question would the borg be able to assimilate the Force? Or is it purely technology that can be assimilated. Or does Lucas's lame mediclorian explanation make the force well within the realm of Borg assimilation?
I think the borg wielding the force would be a scary thing as they could focus completely on wielding it and would not let feelings of doubt or dispair limit their use.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Spock enters the battle arena as the fight music begins. Yoda waves a hand and the Star Wars theme overrides it.
Spock looks over his diminuative foe and says, "It is most logical for you to concede this fight. I am bigger, stronger, and my phaser far surpasses your hand held weapon."
Yoda smiled. "Nothing, Logic is, The Force to."
Spock was getting into his defensive position when he stopped. "Excuse me, what did you say?"
Yoda also stopped, repeating his comment even slower. "Nothing, logic is, the Force to."
"Intriguing. You are using common Earth English words, but they do not seem to be in any logical order."
"Intrigue, the Dark Side is. The light and The Dark, logic, use do both."
"What? Let me run some diagnostics on my Universal Translator."
"The Universe, the Force, translates all."
"You appear to be saying something signifigant, and I am trying to understand you..."
"Try not. Do only."
"Your way of speaking is so illogical, it is giving me a headache."
"Pain, the headache cause. The Darkside, pain leads."
"I know you are trying to say something. Perhaps a mind meld would clear up this confusion. May I?"
"I know not, ask this you do?"
"Now you are just mixing words up to confuse me. It is most logical for me to assume that you agree. Our communications, once commenced, will be the most logical solution to this situation. My mind to your mind. Your mind to my mind." Spock slowly and calmy began his trance, closing on the wise little Yoda.
As he got close, repeating over and over again "my mind, to your mind, your mind to my mind."
As he was just about to reach Yoda, Yoda responded with the incantation, as if already swept up in the mental powers of the Vulcan master.
But not quite.
"Mind yours, Light Saber mine, to."
The last thing to go through Spock's mind, was the shiny end of Yoda's light saber.
I'll admit, I've never seen DS9 or Enterprise. But I've seen a far amount of TOS, TNG, and Voyager and all of the originality, deep moral decisions, and sweeping storylines that people are talking about must be taking place in DS9 and Enterprise.
This is not, by the way, a vote for Star Wars. Just an expression of disbelief about Star Trek.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Dan
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Except, of course, Enterprise. But TOS, TNG, DS9, and even sometimes Voyager all have their own strengths. And it depends on how much you appreciate things like technobabble and camp.
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