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My dad decided that I need some protection, and apparently he's crazy about what he calls "bulldogs."
So he's getting one for me. They were born not too long ago; they'll be opening their eyes next week. My parents are going to train him so that he can live in my condo, and then they're giving him to me.
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These are gorgeous dogs and perfect companions, but please please make sure that your lease or homeowners insurance or condo association or whatever doesn't forbid "pit bulls", and if they do, have a chat with them first. Trust me, you don't want to find out a month after you pick the lil' critter up. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Also you have plenty of neighbors in a condo, right? What if they decide to complain about a pit bull?
Posts: 1990 | Registered: Feb 2001
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Haha, I'd written up a whole post about how Pit Bulls aren't a great choice for a first-time dog owner to raise from a puppy, and then I went back and read that your parents are going to raise and train it first. Yay!
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Yeah, do check on the local laws. You would hate to find that out later when you are all bonded with the baby. Seriously, this is a problem in a lot of places. Anti-"bully breed" legislation is cropping up all over. (I am not a supporter of such legislation, to say the least.) I see news of these new laws every few weeks on my dog email lists.
Congrats on the new addition-to-be. Posts: 628 | Registered: Nov 1999
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Our condo association really can't say anything about...anything. He's going to be smaller than some of the dogs running around here. On the weekends, some of my neighbors take their dogs into our front courtyard and wash them; it's cute!
The association isn't too organized. If we were, we'd have fired the property manager by now.
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I love bull dogs. Playful lil guys when puppies. But some get tall real quick. Rots are another breed that I like. I need to get me a dog over here.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Zeugma: These are gorgeous dogs and perfect companions, but please please make sure that your lease or homeowners insurance or condo association or whatever doesn't forbid "pit bulls", and if they do, have a chat with them first. Trust me, you don't want to find out a month after you pick the lil' critter up.
But that's not a pit bull. Shouldn't be a problem.
For the record, pit bulls are illegal in Florida. Didn't we have a thread about that somewhere here?
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Fitz: I wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley.
They're small, though. They're itty-bitty little guys, like a pit bull hit with a shrink ray! They stand maybe 14 inches at the shoulder, usually. At least, the show dogs do. They're cute - one of my favorite breeds. They're actually quite nice. I don't know how well he'll do as a protection dog, honestly. For a protection dog, I'd be more inclined to go for something like a Giant Schnauzer or a Doberman or one of the Belgian herding breeds. But he'll be a great companion dog!
I hope you have lots of very strong chew toys, especially if you're getting him as a puppy! These guys are chewin' machines!
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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I just found an online quiz where they show pictures of breeds that have been called "pitbull" after they have bitten, then you have to figure out which one is actually a "pitbull"
quote:Originally posted by pH: Our condo association really can't say anything about...anything. He's going to be smaller than some of the dogs running around here. On the weekends, some of my neighbors take their dogs into our front courtyard and wash them; it's cute!
The association isn't too organized. If we were, we'd have fired the property manager by now.
-pH
Even still, because he looks like a pit bull-type dog, you may run into some flak. A "public service campaign" might be in your best interest - take him around to meet all the neighbors and let them get to know him. Maybe offer them some info on Staffies if they're interested in reading anything about them.
People will raise a fuss over dogs they don't understand.
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Fitz: I wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley.
They're small, though. They're itty-bitty little guys, like a pit bull hit with a shrink ray! They stand maybe 14 inches at the shoulder, usually. At least, the show dogs do. They're cute - one of my favorite breeds. They're actually quite nice. I don't know how well he'll do as a protection dog, honestly. For a protection dog, I'd be more inclined to go for something like a Giant Schnauzer or a Doberman or one of the Belgian herding breeds. But he'll be a great companion dog!
I hope you have lots of very strong chew toys, especially if you're getting him as a puppy! These guys are chewin' machines!
I think he's more for intimidation than eating intruders. There are plenty of people here who keep big big dogs in the condos, but I think that would be too much for me. These condos are really small. But if he can at least look scary and bark, it's all good.
You have a good point about the chewing...how long do puppies usually chew a lot? I won't be getting him until he's probably four months old, at least...but I think they chew until at least six months.
Edit: I'm definitely going to have him meet the other dogs! I want him to spend a lot of time around other dogs, especially my boyfriend's lab, since she'll probably be around a lot.
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: I just found an online quiz where they show pictures of breeds that have been called "pitbull" after they have bitten, then you have to figure out which one is actually a "pitbull"
Interesting - I see a Viszla, a JRT, a Boxer, a Swissie, a Rhodesian Ridgeback...none of which I think REMOTELY resemble a pit bull! Strange what people will come up with when they're afraid of a dog. I can see thinking that a Dogo Argentino or a Dogue du Bordeaux looks like a Pit Bull, but a Jack Russell? WTF?
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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He'll probably chew forever. You'll have to be sure to teach him to chew on appropriate things, and get him enough exercise so that he doesn't feel the need to chew through the furniture when you're gone.
And yeah, our Boxer is only 50 pounds, she's really a pretty medium-small dog, but most people are so intimidated by her unusual appearance and super high energy level they see her as HUGE. People can be funny about unusual dogs. And from what I've seen at the dog park, your Staff. Terrier is going to be more likely to play way too rough, and more likely to be aggressive towards other dogs. You can train them to play gently and enjoy other dogs, but you'll need to actively do it, not just wait for him to grow out of it.
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by pH: I think he's more for intimidation than eating intruders. There are plenty of people here who keep big big dogs in the condos, but I think that would be too much for me. These condos are really small. But if he can at least look scary and bark, it's all good.
Yeah - I guess because I have a long history in dogs, I just don't find them to be intimidating at all! But I guess I can see why an intruder might (hopefully!). You might want to see if your parents can specifically start conditioning him to bark at strange noises. Bullies in general don't have a really great tendency to alert to intruder-type situations, but they can certainly be trained for that if desired. They are highly trainable and very smart. But they don't tend to be natural "watch dogs." Most terriers aren't, but it seems to be even less of a trait in the bullies unless somebody's walking by with another dog. But trained for alerting, yes, definitely!
quote: You have a good point about the chewing...how long do puppies usually chew a lot? I won't be getting him until he's probably four months old, at least...but I think they chew until at least six months.
A bully will be a very strong chewer its entire life. You'll really need to watch out for your furniture. Depending on how much you value your table legs, you might want to have him sleep in a crate every night and spend plenty of time in a crate when you aren't supervising him - of course, if your goal is to use him as intruder deterrent, that might not work as well.
He'll chew to relieve stress or excess energy, so to keep him from eating the condo, you'll need to walk him an awful lot, and really give him long, interesting walks - not the same route every time, etc. You might also want to think about something like obedience classes or agility training just so he has a "job" to do on a regular basis. Very smart dogs like Staffies really need that kind of energy-directing or they get destructive fast.
But, you can also help direct the chewing favorably by investing in a lot of very hard, tough toys like the Tuff Tire, Galileo, Huck Ball, etc. Keep a big stock of interesting, hard chew toys, especially if you can flavor them in some way (for example, you can boil the Galileo in chicken broth and it makes it taste really good!). Swap out his toys daily so that every day he's got something "new" to play with. It will help keep him from eating the house.
quote: Edit: I'm definitely going to have him meet the other dogs! I want him to spend a lot of time around other dogs, especially my boyfriend's lab, since she'll probably be around a lot.
-pH
YES - very, very important. Make sure your parents are socializing him as much as possible to other dogs, too. Not just other dogs, but all kinds of people and situations. I can't say that a well socialized dog will NEVER give you problems, but he will react in a much more predictable way, allowing you to control the situation well.
If you've never owned a dog by yourself before, you should definitely read up on training! Training is ongoing - it will happen every time you're with your dog for the rest of his life. Here are some good books and videos that I always recommended to my obedience students:
Anyway, I hope this info helps! Drop me a line any time if you have questions about training that you can't find answers for - I used to do it full-time, so I might have some good info for you. mistrettaphoto at gmail.com
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: Hey, after petsitting a JRT for ten days this summer I wouldn't mess with her. But no I can't either.
Ugh - I used to handle for a JRT breeder back in the day. They were nice dogs, but horrible little s#!ts to deal with in and out of the show ring. Only nice when they were at home, running around and digging up their five acres.
My neighbor has a little JRT bitch and she is SOO SWEET!! I love her. I hear her bark once maybe once a week, if that. Her name is Scout, but I call her Eyebrow Dog because her only marking is a little black arch over one eye, like a villain's arched eyebrow. So cute.
quote: A lot of the breeds with Spanish names on that list though concern me a bit.
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One time I was out walking my basenji and three young men stopped and said "dude! is that a fox?!" She has also been mistaken for a Jack Russell.
Some breeds chew their whole lives. Just think of it as his hobby.
And yes, yes, yes, on the actively training him to play gently. It will make your AND his life way better.
Posts: 628 | Registered: Nov 1999
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Thanks, Libbie! Fortunately, the only table I have that isn't in my bedroom is a Target coffee table. Most everything else in my house is pretty chewproof, since I for some reason got really into metal and glass. But I do worry about my sofa.
My mom is going to crate train him, but I wonder if I can't get him to sleep in the crate at night, but leave the door open? Or will he just go run amok if I do that? I live right near Audubon Park, so there's a lot of space for me to take him for walks and to play.
I wonder if he'll try to get at my tortoise. Elmer is in a tank off the ground, on a built-in shelf, so I don't think he'd be able to knock the tank over...
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I'm not sure, I've had absolutely no interaction with them, so I take what I've heard on the news and stuff to heart, moreso than I do with breeds I know anything about.
Libbie, what is your "breed"
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Zeugma: And from what I've seen at the dog park, your Staff. Terrier is going to be more likely to play way too rough, and more likely to be aggressive towards other dogs. You can train them to play gently and enjoy other dogs, but you'll need to actively do it, not just wait for him to grow out of it.
Definitely. It's something you'll have to be very proactive about forever with this dog. Staffies aren't like Goldens - they don't bounce around and want to love on everybody (Well, they're usually like that toward PEOPLE, but not dogs). Always keep in mind that you dog is descended from dogs bred to fight other dogs - that is in his heritage, and that's how his mind will be working. You will need to stay on the ball with him around other dogs and actively socialize and train him to be in control and submissive.
That's not to say that he won't be a good pet and won't interact well with other dogs - but always remember that he's a dogfighter at heart, and it will be easy for that to become a major problem if you don't remain the leader in all things.
As you can see from what I linked, I really highly recommend Cesar Milan's training books and videos. If you've never seen "The Dog Whisperer" (on the National Geographic Channel), you should check it out! He's a very good dog trainer who uses dog psychology to rehabilitate problem dogs - though most of his books are geared toward not allowing your dog to become a problem in the first place! He works with a lot of dog-aggressive dogs and his books are a GREAT resource for anybody who has a bully breed. They have a different mind from most labs or goldens, and it takes some different understanding to train them well.
Although, the awesome news is that most people who live with a bully adore them! Once you know how to be the leader, they are the world's best dogs! And if you're in charge, he probably will never have issues with other dogs at all.
Just be aware that it could happen, so you're always on the ball!
Anyway, sorry this is so long. Ha ha. I love dogs and training, so I could go on and on forever about this stuff!
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by pH: Thanks, Libbie! Fortunately, the only table I have that isn't in my bedroom is a Target coffee table. Most everything else in my house is pretty chewproof, since I for some reason got really into metal and glass. But I do worry about my sofa.
My mom is going to crate train him, but I wonder if I can't get him to sleep in the crate at night, but leave the door open? Or will he just go run amok if I do that? I live right near Audubon Park, so there's a lot of space for me to take him for walks and to play.
I wonder if he'll try to get at my tortoise. Elmer is in a tank off the ground, on a built-in shelf, so I don't think he'd be able to knock the tank over...
-pH
He'll probably run amok!
You could have him sleep in a crate near wherever you fear intruders might intrude - the front door, etc. The barking and snarling of a ticked off Staffie might be enough to scare off an intruder, if they can't see that he's in a crate!
He may not end up being a night-chewer, so it might not ever be a problem. But it's a factor to consider.
He probably won't get itno your tortoise if he's off the ground, but it would be a good idea to keep the tortoise in a room with a door you can shut when you aren't around, just in case. A Staffie's jaws could crack a tortoise's shell easily!
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Uuuhhhh...well, I'll give you the brief history of my doggy experience! In bulleted form, for ease of reading.
Do NOT get me started talking about dogs...ever!
-Started with training service dogs for the disabled - usually, these were Goldens, Labs, or crosses of the two.
-Started handling show dogs in conformation. Originally, it was a Pembroke Welsh Corgi I co-owned with a friend.
-Then I moved on to Whippets, owning my own. I handled professionaly for a few years: Most sighthound breeds, including something like twelve Whippets at the West Coast Specialty (that was an INSANE week - I do not recommend handling a dozen dogs at one Specialty show ever!) Never handled any Rhodesian Ridgebacks or Greyhounds, though - I just never got any gigs with those breeds. I also handled JRTs, Rottweilers, and Australian Shepherds.
-After 9/11, I lost my job and had to move into a teeny apartment, so I sent my Whippet back to live with his breeder, who placed him in a pet home since he had grown too tall to show anyway. I still miss him. He was my special boy.
-I focused on school for a while, then got a high-paced finance job that didn't allow for enough time to take care of a dog. A very boring, lonely four years.
-Then I got a hairless Chinese Crested, who was a great show dog but had some serious temperamental problems that I didn't have the time to train out of him with my stupid crappy office job. So he lives now with his co-owner in Canada and I have "visitation rights" with him. He's such a sweetie now - I think he just didn't like my apartment!
-Currently, I don't own a dog because I live in an apartment and I HAD that crummy job that didn't leave me enough time to train dogs like I like them to be trained. Now I'm working from home, though, so I'm considering getting another. I'm not sure what breed I'd go for this time - I'd probably take a rescue Aussie due to my addiction to agility.
-I do currently run my mom's dog, an English Springer Spaniel, in agility. He's a whiz at it, too. Mom wants to try to get him into the AKC National Championships. Not sure if we're fast enough to beat the Border Collies, but we're going to try!
-Throughout most of my life for the last 10 years, I've also run group obedience classes, so I've been training for almost the whole time, even when I haven't had a dog. I'm trying to find a location to start classes again in my current city.
So, the long answer is above. The short answer is, "just about every breed." Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Started with training service dogs for the disabled - usually, these were Goldens, Labs, or crosses of the two.
That sounds like such an amazing thing to do. I've always wanted to do that, except that I don't know much about training dogs yet. We had beagles when I lived with my parents...fancy shmancy champion beagles that we were going to breed until someone stole both of the males. They were the sweetest dogs in the world. My mom kept her beagle, a short, chubby female. But now that my brother's moved out, no one is there to play with her, and she got lonely. So my mom gave her to our neighbors, who have small children who love to play with her. And she's so well-tempered that she's a great dog for them.
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pH, you should check into Canine Companions for Independence. They have a "puppy raiser" program, which is how I got started in training. They actually teach you everything you need to know about training service dogs. It was a really fulfilling experience. One of my dogs went on to help a little 9-year-old boy with CP. It's a good feeling!
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Hehe. I'm such a novice. I've only shown at the 4-H level, obedience, showmanship, and agility, first with a cocker (bad experience) then my sheltie (who is the cutest little rescue thing). I was raised by Airedales, my family has had three (two when I was born, then got the third after those two died when I was in 2nd grade). She's almost 13 now, but still hyper and chewy. I've also done quite a bit of obedience work with three different JRTs (including the one I petsat this summer who has decided I'm hers and she needs to protect me from everything including my sheltie), but never shown any of them which is a shame because we could have done well. My sheltie has confidence issues.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Airedales are awesome big goofs. Our first two were in the 75 pound range, but when getting the puppy my parents decided a big one would be fun. As in humoungous no where near breed standard. At her peak weight she was 94 pounds, right now she's like 88. These dogs got me so lost in the woods as a kid, but usually brought me back.
I would have shown her in 4-H, but I was an itty bitty thing and by the time I outweighed her, she was starting to slow down a bit and I decided i wanted a dog I could cuddle. My mom's dentist has said the same thing you did (after doing a root canal on our male) that when she has property and spare time she's getting airedales.
I'm maintaining my novice status for the doggy olympics Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Sharpie: One time I was out walking my basenji and three young men stopped and said "dude! is that a fox?!"
You should have told them it was. That would have been hilarious.
-pH
Hah! I feel like I spend a lot of time when I'm out as a basenji "ambassador".
"What kind of dog is that???"
And I go into my spiel about African hunting dogs, barkless, yada yada.
They are gorgeous and special and smart, but they are NOT goldens. Some day maybe I'll have an "easy" dog. You know, one that kinda wants to do what the humans want them to do.
Posts: 628 | Registered: Nov 1999
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Rottweilers are in the same category as pit bulls?
My understanding (and I could be horribly wrong on this) is that pit bulls are into only instinctively hostile (they were bred that way), but they have a tendency to bite and stay locked on to their target. I've heard stories where they've needed tools to pry off an attacking pit bull.
Also, quite honestly, pit bulls are illegal in Florida becase they ate a few children, which is why *only* pit bulls are not allowed. And those laws are rather messed up; I can legally own a Bengal tiger if I wanted to, but not a pit bull?!?
I use to own a 180lb Rottweiler. This was an ox size-wise, but was really sweet and dumb as a brick. I had a Beagle that was more agressive than he was.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by pH: Omg, CCI has Real Job Openings(tm). I will keep that in mind for when I'm ready for a Real Job(tm).
-pH
yes!! A lot of them are in California. I seriously considered moving to Santa Rosa for a while there and trying for some of their jobs. They are rad.
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Nighthawk, pit bulls are "legally" "defined" differently all over the place. Florida defined pit bulls by referring to the AKC and UKC breed standards for pit bulls, providing that dogs substantially conforming to those characteristics will be considered pit bulls. In other words, pretty much if it looks like a "pit bull", it's considered a pit bull. (I'm not sure if that's the most recent definition, but I believe it is.)
Ohio explicitly includes Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers -- or bred from them, or identified as such by a veterinarian.
pH, don't forget to at least find out what the renter insurance requirements might be. Just so you know.
Posts: 628 | Registered: Nov 1999
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I don't have renter insurance. I have insurance on my condo which is paid through my condo fee, but it doesn't cover anything IN the condo. But I don't own enough things to make it worthwhile anyway.
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Right, but the thing is, some insurance policies will cancel your policy if they have a breed-specific list and you get a dog of that breed. And no condo association will let you own or rent a condo without insurance. Not every insurance company does this, but it's a good idea to check before you get a dog like this.
And yes, dogs like this are NOT "easy". Nothing about them is "easy". I looooove my Boxer's intelligence and playfulness and independence and love for life, and couldn't imagine getting another breed, but nothing about her has been "easy". Any good behavior she shows today is something we worked long and hard to teach her.
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Zeg, my parents are lawyers. I'm sure my dad has the condo association stuff memorized. He got paranoid when I got a tortoise because some kinds of tortoises are illegal to own.
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But I guess I can see why an intruder might (hopefully!). You might want to see if your parents can specifically start conditioning him to bark at strange noises. Bullies in general don't have a really great tendency to alert to intruder-type situations, but they can certainly be trained for that if desired. They are highly trainable and very smart. But they don't tend to be natural "watch dogs." Most terriers aren't, but it seems to be even less of a trait in the bullies unless somebody's walking by with another dog. 
