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That would be an interesting twist if Helo turned out to be one of the five forgotten models... cause he's such an awesome well loved guy.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I may be completely wrong on this, but did Boomer-Sharon tell the Chief that she was pregnant as well? And I do remember for sure that Athena-Sharon told Helo that she was when they were on Caprica, although I think Helo thought that she was Boomer. If I'm right about the first, it seems awfully convenient (for the storyline) for two incarnations of the same model to be pregnant at the same time... and if that's the case, how many more Sharons might have also been pregnant and by whom?
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Okay, so I'm confused. Maybe that's what I get for ramming my way through three seasons in a little over a month.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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It would make sense for the five early models to be flawed or 'insane' in some way, they are human prototypes after all so it is unlikely they would make good sleepers. Even the ones the Cylon's used are a bit eccentric.
I think that it is likely that 'God' for the Cylons is an artificial intelligence construct that is not constrained by the limitations of human size. It makes sense for such an entity to exist and for it to be in effect one being since even if doubled in size the new portion would just be a parallel processor for the original as they would network and run the same software.
If that device then discovered a need or a desire to duplicate human scale AI then it would in effect be God to them. As for the first five, they would represent the first attempt and would most likely be networked together, wow what if the 'love' that Cylon's crave so much is the networking ability that was taken away to simulate the human condition?
The question I most want answered is what is the condition of the Cylon home-world?
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote: and if that's the case, how many more Sharons might have also been pregnant and by whom?
If I had a Sharon model then she would be or I would die trying.
Does she make anyone else think of the Futurama episode where Lucy Lu sex bots where almost responsible for human extinction because all the men gave up on real women? I could see where that would have been a very effective attack. It is a good thing that we are fertile with the Sharon model...
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RM has said in interviews and podcasts that the Temple of Five and the final five Cylons are connected. Maybe the final five are original cylons from earth. Gods of Kobol maybe?
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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There a theory that is gaining some momentum on the other BSG message boards and has even been mentioned on Syfyportal and trektoday. It the theory that BSG is thousands of years in our future and that humans migrated to Kobol as a result of cylon/human wars and that the Lords of Kobol were cylons. A cylon war happened on Kobol and the humans fled to the 12 colonies.
Looks like I'm not the only one to come up with that one. Of course, just because it's out there doesn't mean that theory is anywhere close what the real backstory is going to end up being.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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As for the Temple of the Five and the suspiciously connected nature of it, the fact that there are twelve Olympians and twelve Cylon models, etc, I can think of one thing offhand that has to be significant.
"This has all happened before, and it will all happen again."
That's got to be a hint towards what it is. There's an obvious connection, five priests who worshipped their Harry-Potteresque He Who May Not Be Named, five Cylon models who cannot be spoken of. Hmm. It's all happened before, and it'll all happen again.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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We must reconcile the fact that we have evidence of human evolution and development on Earth, so we cannot go with the old, "Life down here began out there" we must start with Earth as the point of origin.
From there we get Kobol with its Greek style God's and its knowledge of Earth's night sky. So perhaps we have a High Greek culture achieving FTL and finding and settling Kobol.
Then things on Kobol go to hell, perhaps a war with a Cylon style foe. Twelve tribes go out but one tribe goes home, presumably arriving on Earth in time to restore the Greek Gods or be the source of them but not retaining the level of technology that they had on Kobol. This puts them back here in the last 3000 years.
So we can figure that about the same time the Colonies where founded a group of Kobol refugees returned to Earth and found it in a primitive state. However the were vastly outnumbered by those primitives and were absorbed by them in time.
Now the question is how long has it been since that? If it has been thousands of years since the founding of the colonies then that gives you time hack near the present for the Earth. If you add another thousand years beyond today perhaps at some point you will have the Galactica drop into the middle of the Hundred Planets empire of Earth...
I do not like that so much as I like the idea of the drama being played out today, with the possibility of ten years of SG1 style episodes of the Earth fighting the Cylons in a desperate battle.
Plus it is a more reasonable time-line given the facts we have to work with...
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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You can buy the Classic Series of BSG on iTunes now.
Craziness. I may buy the old series and compare it to the new one in the realm of characters and story lines??
Posts: 871 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Story lines? the RBSG is superior, is actually more serious, and takes the whole apocalyptic thing to its conclusion.
Characters? Starbuck is apparently somewhat similar- just darker and slightly more feminine.
Apollo? Different, yeah. Quorum of Twelve? Inept and stupid, unlike Roslin.
There is more RBSG than OBSG. Honestly, I think the new one is the best tv show currently on. And I think the plot idea is a very good one. The old one was good for its time, but its time has passed and its been supplanted.
I shall always consider the Reimagined Battlestar Galactica as the real one.
Kinda like I prefer Ultimate Spiderman to regular Spiderman.
Actually, the Ultimate Marvel thing is done in much the same vein as RBSG. Darker, modern, etc. Very fascinating stuff.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:So we can figure that about the same time the Colonies where founded a group of Kobol refugees returned to Earth and found it in a primitive state.
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Roslon can't be a cylon because of the whole cancer thing. Remember that she was cured because of the Cylon half of the blood from Hera.
Adama's personal history goes back too far back for him to be a Cylon I think. (unless maybe they had Skin-jobs during the FIRST war, but I highly doubt that)
I don't think Baltar is going to be a Cylon... that would come too close to absolving him of his crimes, and I think the makers want us to hate him at the end. That would be a lot harder to do if you look at it as him just playing his part.
I could see Starbuck being a Cylon.
<.< Maybe BSG started with The Matrix. Morpheus founded Kobol!
Posts: 636 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I think that the last five types are going to be very scarce, so I do not think that many would have ended up in the Fleet.
As for Baltar being a Cylon, it is a puzzle, the projecting of Caprica 6 and all the rest suggests he has abilities that the Cylons have and his instability and genius might indicate that he is an early model, but he eliminated himself as a Cylon early in his testing I assume. Maybe the first generation of Cylon Skin-jobs were not perfect, perhaps he is a pre production model.
Posts: 475 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ReddwarfVII: RM has said in interviews and podcasts that the Temple of Five and the final five Cylons are connected. Maybe the final five are original cylons from earth. Gods of Kobol maybe?
Wouldn't it be funny...
Just because humans created the Cylons doesn't necessarily mean that the Cylons didn't create us as well. Maybe the final five went back in time and engineered mankind in order that we would create them.
"...and go 'round and 'round and 'round in the circle game..."
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by General Sax: As for Baltar being a Cylon, it is a puzzle, the projecting of Caprica 6 and all the rest suggests he has abilities that the Cylons have and his instability and genius might indicate that he is an early model, but he eliminated himself as a Cylon early in his testing I assume. Maybe the first generation of Cylon Skin-jobs were not perfect, perhaps he is a pre production model.
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Yeah, I thought it was odd that there were five remaining cylon models yet to appear and then they find the Temple of Five. Should make for an interesting end to the cliff hanger.
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Helo can't be one of the five remaining cylons. He and Sharon had a hybrid baby. That means one is human, one is cylon, and we already know which one is cylon.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I should have known better than to watch it. I knew it was the last ep for over a month, and I knew they were going to give us cliffhangers, but I was weak, and I watched it.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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What if the BSG humans are descended from synthetic humans created on Earth? They flee persecution or something, found the 12 colonies, forget they are synthetic, create Cylons...
Probably not what's going on, but it would be a twisted way to go...
Posts: 5663 | Registered: Jun 2000
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For those of you wondering about the whole messing with the names of the Gods and why the change up between Zeus/Jupiter thing. Listening to the podcast for the ep RM basically stated that they are pretty much just playing loose with all of the names. I would bet that eventually they're are just going to let it be known that all of the Lords of Kobol are know by both their Greek and Roman names. Maybe RM and co will give a reason later for this or maybe this is just one of those details that they just don't stress over.
For this ep, he basically said that the reason for the Eye of Jupiter was that it sounded cooler and not as geeky as Eye of Zeus.
Oh and for those of you that are not listening to the podcasts, you are really missing out. They give great insight and if you listen to them after you have already seen the Ep, then they are spoiler free.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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BSG marathon on SciFi right now. I'm catching up on any shows I've missed this season so far.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I agree that all BSG fans should listen to the podcasts.
As for some saying they dislike this season, I for one love it. There are some points that make me roll my eyes, but the first 6 episodes of third season are some of the best TV ever. I think episode "Rapture" is my favorite of the episodes after "Exoduse pt. II". "Eye of Jupiter" is right there too.
I got a better look at the Five at Battlestar Wiki and they really do resemble the beings of light from the original series.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Telp, I'm with you on that. I love this season as well (as does nathan and our friend marissa who joins us to watch BSG on fridays).
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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So thanks to my lovely DVR, I've just gotten all caught up. I got busy the past few months and kept missing Battlestar. I fall in to the loving this season crowd. While the Lee/Kira think is rather soap operaish, it's also completely in line with both of their characters. I absolutely believe it.
One thing that I kept thinking of, was how is everybody not pregnant? Was one of the ships carrying condoms as its cargo or something? If not, I'd think they would have ran out a long time ago.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ReddwarfVII: There a theory that is gaining some momentum .... It the theory that BSG is thousands of years in our future and that humans migrated to Kobol as a result of cylon/human wars and that the Lords of Kobol were cylons. A cylon war happened on Kobol and the humans fled to the 12 colonies.
Looks like I'm not the only one to come up with that one. Of course, just because it's out there doesn't mean that theory is anywhere close what the real backstory is going to end up being.
Kolob in Mormon theology is "the nearest star unto the throne of God". So, life did begin on Kobol. It didn't begin on Earth -- we on Earth, therefore, must descend from the humans of Kobol.
This is relevant mostly, I think, for the speculation about Earth. In the miniseries it is stated explicitly that the thirteenth tribe left Kobol "early".
quote:There a theory that is gaining some momentum on the other BSG message boards and has even been mentioned on Syfyportal and trektoday. It the theory that BSG is thousands of years in our future and that humans migrated to Kobol as a result of cylon/human wars and that the Lords of Kobol were cylons. A cylon war happened on Kobol and the humans fled to the 12 colonies.
Looks like I'm not the only one to come up with that one. Of course, just because it's out there doesn't mean that theory is anywhere close what the real backstory is going to end up being.
But how can this be since Cylon robots were created by the Twelve Colony Humans in the past century? I think it's more likely that the Twelve Models are based off the Lords of Kobol, not the other way around.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Posts: 871 | Registered: Jul 2006
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"The re-imagined BSG obviously draws on the original and so on its Mormon theology."
The New BSG is so different from the original that I don't even consider them the same. It draws on the Mormon Theology at such a distance that you can't compare the two without completely twisting both the old and the new concepts beyond recognition. I gave up talking about the New BSG and Mormon Theology relationships because they are incompatible (and practically non-existant).
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I would agree. The similarities left are now very basic in their realization. You could say that they are now so basic that theological stories from which some of the structure of BSG comes from has reverted back to their biblical roots in Juedo-Christianity. What structure I see left in the current BSG seems to me to come more strongly from the Bible than any particular bits of Mormon doctrine. However, not just the bible, but RM and company are also grabbing things from lots of different bits of Mythology.
That's one of the reasons I hold to my BSG is taking place thousands of years in Earth's future theory. The religious aspects of the show have a such a mixture of many forms of mythology that I think would naturally happen over many thousands of years.
(Spoiler Warning!!) On a different topic, did anyone else see the hi-res version of the picture of the final five with Deanna in the middle? I'm issuing a spoiler warning on this one just in case you want to keep yourself totally ignorant.
If you zoom in on the hi-res version of the picture, you can make out the faces of the five very clearly and for what it's worth, I did not recognize any of them. That could mean that we are eliminating Baltar as a possible cylon. But it also doesn't have to mean anything either. Could be that the shot was never meant to be viewed that close, so there was no need to shoot the scene with the actual actors that will be portraying the final five for real. Especially if they have not fleshed out the characters enough to actually cast the actors that would be portraying them for real.
Although I am pretty that BSG has finished filming their entire season by now. So it would really depend at what point that picture was taken in the process of the story development and casting of the final five. The picture is from the next ep, so it could have been taken very early on, before the real actors were cast.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I read this on the BSG forum on scifi.com and I thought it was kind of neat, so I thought I should share it with you all.
The "Eye of Jupiter" that is central to the BSG's mid-season cliff-hanger finale is present as an artwork on the wall of Starbuck's apartment on Caprica, which we saw in Episode #202 - "Valley of Darkness".
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Very interesting. However, I would say that if they were going to do a Starbuck connection to the eye, it would have been her instead of the chief to discover the temple. I would say that because of her religious fanatic and abusive mother, it doesn't surprise me that a painting of a religious artifact would adorn her walls. However, I will be interested to see of the BSG writing staff make anything of it. Could just be one of those throwaway moments for the fans.
Speaking of the eye, any ideas on what it is exactly? Looking at the drawings of the eye, the way the temple of five is designed, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a beam eminates from the temple itself and literally "points" the way to earth, or points to the next marker.
Also, something for everyone to consider, if there wasn't a need to hide the way to earth from something, why didn't the 13th tribe leave a map instead of clues? That satellite marker that the cylons found seemed designed to stop cybernetic lifeforms from following the path. Was the 13th tribe just trying to find earth or were they fleeing? It's obvious that there was a war on Kobol that necessitated the human survivors to leave and travel to the 12 colonies. It does not seem too far a stretch of the imagination to assume the reason they were fleeing was a destruction of Kobol similar to what happened to the 12 colonies. Kobol's lack of recognizable structures looked exactly like what I would think a world that has fully recovered, but remained uninhabited, would look. Kobol had vast cities of high techology. Where did the buildings go? Why did it look like a jungle again?
Also, why did the 13th tribe flee to Earth anyway? Why did they even know about this place called earth in the first place? Does anyone know if they have answered that question on the show? Remind me if they have because at the moment I can't think of the answer if they did.
Edit: I meant to say that the lack of distinguishable buildings on a world that once was very heavily populuated to me suggests that it is a world that has recovered from nuclear war. So a similar thing happened on Kobol that happened to the 12 colonies.
But the evidence in the series so far seems contradictory.
In the Miniseries, the priestess said that the Thirteenth Tribe left Kobol "in the early days", i.e. long before the Exodus of the other 12 tribes.
On the other hand, in Kobol's Last Gleaming the following exchange occurs:
Elosha: How old are the ruins? Billy Keikeya: Well, we won't know for sure until we send a ground team, but the initial estimates have it on the order of approximately 2,000 years. Elosha: That's around the time the thirteen tribes first left Kobol.
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PS: I so hope that the writers take this show as seriously as we do...
It would be horrible it falls prey to the X-Files Syndrome, where a lot of hints lead to nothing because the writers themselves have no idea what the "truth" is.
If BSG wants to take itself seriously as a work of art, and not just be a commercial product, it should not go on forever. At most one more season.
Posts: 64 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote: If BSG wants to take itself seriously as a work of art, and not just be a commercial product, it should not go on forever. At most one more season.
I disagree. If it wants to take itself seriously it needs to tie up plot lines. That doesn't mean it has to end, it just has to make new plot lines. Even if they make it to earth, there's no reason for the show to end. I'd love to see how the characters mix with earth and how earthlings respond to the cylon threat.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Good catch on the Eye in Kara's apartment! I could be just a coincidence...but if they do tie it in I'll be very impressed.
What do you guys think about the star that is about to go nova? There seems to be a connection with that and the other events goin on.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Hey added to what I said above, wouldn't it make sense that the 12 tribes would settle 12 different worlds after fleeing Kobol. Same concept as in the Ender's Game series, specifically in Children of the Mind. Spread humanity out to so many worlds and that it would be impossible to complete eliminate the species. Problem was that they stopped at 12 worlds.
Also, what does everyone think about the idea that when humanity left Kobol that FTL had not been discovered yet or was only in its infant stages? The cylons are able to make further FTL jumps than the human fleet is. Why? If FTL has been around for two centuries, don't you think that FTL tech would have been perfected by this point? Perfected meaning that no new advances in the tech is possible.
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There's an article about BSG over at the Chicago Tribune, including Q&A with Ron Moore and David Eick. Semi-spoiler warning.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Thanks for posting that, Lisa. I just wanted to say it includes pretty big spoilers (even if only hinted at) --so if you really don't want to know anything, don't read it!
Posts: 64 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ReddwarfVII: Also, what does everyone think about the idea that when humanity left Kobol that FTL had not been discovered yet or was only in its infant stages? The cylons are able to make further FTL jumps than the human fleet is. Why? If FTL has been around for two centuries, don't you think that FTL tech would have been perfected by this point? Perfected meaning that no new advances in the tech is possible.
I'm sure that the Humans fleeing Kobol had FTL. Whether or not their tech was higher or not is impossible to tell, and not really important at this point. What is most likely is that when they colonized the Twelve Worlds, just like on New Caprica, they had near loss of that high technology, as high tech can only be maintained by a large industrial base which was now gone.
As for the modern Twelve Colonies they had a much higher technology prior to the Cylon War, which they gave up out of necessity fighting the machines. That taboo continued for 40 years, weakening along the way with the fear of the past passing away with time, leading up to using advanced computer networks again.
Two reasons the Cylon jump drives are better: One, the Colonials had no need/incentive to advance FTL jump drives past the point of jumping around their own solar system(s). Two, the Cylons by their vary nature as machines would evolve technologically much more quickly.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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