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7 pm at night and iTunes still does not have it up. I mean come on people, I want to play nice and buy my eps like a good boy, but COME ON!!!!
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by T_Smith: I have a feeling the Dream Leoben was neither a dream, nor Leoben, but a third sentient being, and that Starbuck is neither dead or alive, but in a plane of existance with the Gods, or "beings of light."
I think the Dream Leoben was the same entity as Head Six and Head Baltar.
Was the kid Kara kept seeing herself as a child or was it Kasie?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
So, I just listened to the podcast about Adama destroying his model ship. Turns out that was a genuine reaction to Kara being killed. I don't mean he was just really into his character, I mean he was personally upset at the scriptwriters for cutting her. So, they did not expect him to break his ship.
AND, that ship was a genuine museum model on loan, and it was worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. I guess the props guys about peed their pants when he did that. But it sure made for great drama.
Also, at the end of the podcast, Ron did say to all the "Starbuck fans" not to jump ship yet, because they had quite the tale to tell. There must be more in store for Kara, though I don't think it will be until next season (or a possible cliff-hanger this season), and that she is either dead, or in some other dimension.
But for the whole cast to be that upset about her being written off (Ron said the whole cast was upset), she must be gone either permanently, or for a long time, or just have very limited screentime left. They can't just completely cut her from the series, though, not after all the buildup. That would just be bad storytelling, IMO. They just CAN'T.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Sounds like rumors to me (regarding adamas reaction and the ship). He had a genuine angry reaction to learning that she was being written off while on camera?? While doing a scene about grieving for her? And destroyed some museum piece? I just dont think so.
Posts: 375 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Blayne Bradley
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Adamas ship actually got destroyed several times before.
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quote:Originally posted by TrapperKeeper: Sounds like rumors to me (regarding adamas reaction and the ship). He had a genuine angry reaction to learning that she was being written off while on camera?? While doing a scene about grieving for her? And destroyed some museum piece? I just dont think so.
No they were filming a scene where Adama is working on the ship and placing the piece that Kara gave to him on it. He just kind of did it. It wasnt written before hand and he just reacted in the way that he thought Adama would actually react. The ship was really on loan too. And it did cost a couple of hundred thousand dollars.
Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2005
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What I said was on the podcast by Ron himself. I heard it myself. It wasn't a rumor. Listen to the podcast. After he wrecked it, the props guys kind of wished they knew he was going to do it, because they would have built him a fake ship to break, so the museum piece didn't get destroyed.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Podcast = true. I don't think Mrs. Ron would have been so eager to tell the story if it hadn't happened. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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It's possible that Kara will be back, but played by someone else. Maybe the young Kara we saw earlier?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I'm downloading the podcast now. She'd better not be Really Dead or I'll be Really Disappointed in the BSG storytellers.
(An aside... I love mrs. ron. She cracks me up to no end on the podcasts. She was great during the roundtable.)
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But Ron does hint a bit that this is not the end of her "destiny" thing, and that her actions here will help directly bring about the finding of Earth of something.
The destiny thing should continue. At least it had better. If her "great destiny" was just to randomly kill herself, then spending as long as they did was pointless.
Now, if they'd revealed at the end that it was all a lie, somehow, at the end of this episode, that could have been a good twist, if it had revealed some other crazy thing, say, about the Head Six/Gaius or something.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Was the kid Kara kept seeing herself as a child or was it Kasie?
I'm inclined to believe that the girl is supposed to be young Kara, even though the actress looks nothing like the photo in her mother's album.
My brother commented that the "because you're my daughter" line would have been better had it been "because you're special," mostly because the latter would reference an earlier scene in this episode, while the former sounds like a throwback to "Hand of God."
posted
I'm on the fence about her being dead. I haven't listened to the podcast yet, so I haven't heard all of that.
The thing is, actors are usually kept in the dark about story lines as much as the fans are. The reason for that is that the nature of their job and how they get jobs makes them loose cannons. Whether or not Kara is really dead, I guarantee that Katie Sackoff has something in her contract that allows them to bring her back at will. Starbuck may be at the end of her screen time, but everything that I have read leads me to believe that Ms Sackoff is not at the end of her contract.
Also the dialogue in the final scene between Kara and her mother leads me to believe that there was something specific that she told Kara that she was going to do, ie her destiny.
Just throwing this out there. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace....child of one of the five? Father was a five and human mother? Did you guys catch that both Hera and Kara are having nightly nightmares? Hera is definately a child of destiny because of her heritage. I don't know, but that would certainly give them an ability to bring her back.
FYI, I'm listening to the podcast now and he is talking pretty freely about the fact that Kara basically kills herself. She is sounding pretty dead.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Just throwing this out there. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace....child of one of the five? Father was a five and human mother? Did you guys catch that both Hera and Kara are having nightly nightmares? Hera is definately a child of destiny because of her heritage. I don't know, but that would certainly give them an ability to bring her back.
I had that thought, too -- but remember that one of the major themes of season 1 (or 2?) was that the Cylons couldn't have children. That theory wouldn't make sense unless the ability to reproduce was one of several things that distinguished the Five from the rest of the Cylon population.
quote:Just throwing this out there. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace....child of one of the five? Father was a five and human mother? Did you guys catch that both Hera and Kara are having nightly nightmares? Hera is definately a child of destiny because of her heritage. I don't know, but that would certainly give them an ability to bring her back.
I had that thought, too -- but remember that one of the major themes of season 1 (or 2?) was that the Cylons couldn't have children. That theory wouldn't make sense unless the ability to reproduce was one of several things that distinguished the Five from the rest of the Cylon population.
--j_k
Well.......yeah! Actually that was where I was going with that. Remember that I think there's a good possibility that Lords of Kobol were cylons from Earth. I would assume that they figured out how to have children and that the BSG cylons on the cusp of that knowledge.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Ummm as I continue to listen to the podcast it really sounds like that she is dead. Kara's mom was preparing her for this death. Kara was seeing this sign that would signify her time to die.
Yeah, she is really dead. Just like Clark's dad on Smallville. She is gone.
At the end of the Podcast RM and MrsRon were asking Starbuck fans not to abandon ship, because they still had lots of story to tell. There was nothing in there that would give me any hope that Kara is coming back in any form.
If JK Rowling can kill Dumbledore, RM can kill Starbuck.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Waay too much emphasis on destiny, just to accept the fact that you need to die for no apparent reason. Either there be a really good reason for her dying, (i.e. somehow it leads them to earth), or her influence will somehow have some monumental effect on events, such as her being in a spirit world, coming back, being a Cylon, etc.
I do think Starbuck is dead, but there is just too much build-up for her death to just mean, it's your time to die. How cheesy is it that your destiny is just to accept your death and give up on life, without trying?
Something else really important related to Starbuck is going to happen, I just don't know what. I think it will answer our questions about why her death was so important.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I think the writers are just trying to make this temporary death seem more legit by taking it seriously in public Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ReddwarfVII: If JK Rowling can kill Dumbledore, RM can kill Starbuck.
well, I don't think Dumbledore is really dead. His body was placed under a pheonix if I remember correctly. Certainly that is foreshadowing his glorious return in the final book.
I hope Starbuck isn't really dead. It seems a cheap way to kill her without adding any benefit to the fleet. The ejection seat handle had to be foreshadowing for a future return of Kara Thrace.
Posts: 197 | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Well, I hold no hope of her return. Mourn her as you will, but she is gone. I do hope that her death will still serve some greater purpose. However, it does not seem likely this season.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
NO! NO no no no no! She can't! But she is...
Such a good episode. Totally moved to tears. I'm so impressed by the past five episodes of Season Three. Totally blown away.
I also think that the Leoben in Kara's head is the same being as head Six and head Baltar. I can only pray that she is one of the Final Five... But I also fear we've seen a Babylon 5 death, like Kosh... as soon as we've really gotten to know the person they are torn away.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I found this cool theory at the SciFi forum:
quote:From magicruss:
The thing is, the Final Five (unless there are two sets, one cylon and one other) predate the cylons by a few thousand years. The Temple of the Five was 4,000 years old (correct me if that's wrong). Therefore, she could be part of the Final Five and not be (technically) a current-version cylon. The fact that "this has happened before and will happen again" was repeated tonight gives further credence to the idea that perhaps humans were the "cylons" to the Lords of Kobol.
I love the combination of theological/spiritual elements and harder science at play in BSG. The universe is a mystery and we are far too small to really understand our place in it.
quote: She says “I’m dead as far as I know” and goes on to say “As far as I know, the fate of Starbuck is completely changed. Her ship exploded and she didn’t pull the ejection thing.” The interesting thing is, she says she wasn’t there when they shot the footage of the hand near the ejection switch which goes to show, what the director and writers have planned may not have been divulged to Sackhoff during the shooting of the episode. In terms of Starbuck’s whole “destiny” story, Sackhoff says she’s as confused as the rest of us about that. It seems as though she’s on a need-to-know basis in terms of the future of her character.
posted
They wouldn't keep her in the dark unless they had something to hide. If she was to no longer be on the set forever, then they would let her know, instead of leaving her in the dark. They could do this, while still having some contract that allows them to bring her back if they changed her mind.
But they don't need to change their mind. They already know that they are going to use her again, though I don't know for what part in the show. They are just really trying to keep this secret, and really surprise us when this actress does appear on BSG again. I'm convinced of this.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
If you keep her in the dark about whether or not she will have a job next season, she is far more likely to find a new job and be unavailable when BSG does need her.
Posts: 375 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
You know, I made the mistake of looking at Patriot Resource for spoilers.
Because, you know, I simply can't stand waiting.
What I read, and what might very possibly be true, is something that I now regret looking at, because, to be honest, I want to see the EPISODES and feel the shock and surprise, not find out without it.
In other words, I really wanna see the next three episodes.
posted
Oh, and another question: Are all the people with accents from Aerelon?
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
No just the liverpool dock workers english accent people, different places have different accents, Baltars Oxford english is probly a result of rying to soften his accent.
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But do we actually know that?
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Blayne Bradley
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Im pretty sure we have seen people non capricans with distinct accents before and it would make the MOST sense considering that theyre on different planets.
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I'm not sure how I feel about Lampkin and I definitely don't like that Lee is trying to defend Baltar. At this point I don't think Baltar is worth defending. I mean, he should have a fair trial and all but I don't think there's anything about him to defend. He screwed them over when he was president, he betrayed them when the cylons had him, what more is there so say? He deserves to remain locked up, at the very least.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Yeah, but one thing some of the folks on Galactica think he's guilty of, he actually isn't. He didn't tell the Cylons where New Caprica was.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Did anyone else tear up when the population count read 41,399 this time?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Blayne Bradley
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well ild certainly not put all the blame on him, noone could know that the Cylons looked like Humans, wasnt she a lab assistent or something either somewhat legal or even if not legal not a treasonable offence given humanities situation at the time?
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Pix, I did the same thing and got the same response. When I explained who Badger was, he looked at me like I was a sorry little person who needed to get a life. It's so good to be a geek.
I'm certain that Lampkin did that whole thing to seduce Lee into being part of the defense team.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Alcon: It's Badger!! From Firefly
Isn't that interesting. I pegged him as the ghost serial killer from Medium, and he was totally giving me the creeps the entire episode because of it. I must not have noticed his Badger-ness when I first saw him on Medium.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
This episode certainly is the best in awhile, at least in my opinion.
The episodes have been steadily, vastly improving since The Woman King (may no one ever remember it) and this one is my favorite yet.
Yes, the 41,399 really did kill me. I felt horrible, honestly.
The worst, though, was when Adama was looking through her files. I was actually crying by then. It was terribly sad. (But in the best possible way.)
I like the new lawyer. It's always great to see a great new character and he's one of them. Lee's actually doing something interesting now. I mean, this might actually be good for him. Or else it'll be bad for the fleet, which is always entertaining. I've always liked the "do what I believe the right thing is, damn anything like logic, damn the safety of the fleet, and damn pretty much everything!" side of him, and it's coming back. As Lee's gonna be a lawyer!
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Actually that was where I was going with that. Remember that I think there's a good possibility that Lords of Kobol were cylons from Earth. I would assume that they figured out how to have children and that the BSG cylons on the cusp of that knowledge.
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