posted
I hate it when people make rules and they don't know what they're for or what their purpose is, but they'll enforce it just for the sake of having rules. At my school, there are no shortages of those.
I go to a private, conservative Jewish school where we have to wear kippot. That's no problem since it's in accordance with Jewish law and it's a Jewish school. This year they decided that the guys can only wear kippot made from suede. These are very small and fall off your head very easily and are really annoying. I always wear bigger ones made from a different material.
I went to the teacher that's in charge of all of the rules to ask him why we have to wear this specific kind. He wouldn't tell me why and then when I persisted he asked me if my future employer would make a rule that I disagreed with if I would argue with him about it instead of just accepting it. I said the difference between my future employer and my school is my employer pays my salary while my parents pay the school to teach me, not to enforce pointless rules. Detention.
I still don't even know why I can't wear the kind of kippah that I like since it stays on my head better, I don't have to adjust it every 10 seconds, and if it's acceptable in the Orthodox Chabad temple that I go to it should be acceptable in a Conservative school.
I know I should've just let it go and do what they say since it's a stupid fight to pick, but I don't understand why people like making stupid rules. This is far from the only time I've had to conform to rules to which I think have no purpose. I like to know why I'm supposed to do things. Is that bad? Should I just force myself to learn how to do things and not question them? Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
that's bizarre. only suede kippot? i go to an orthodox jewish school and i've never heard of that...
Posts: 97 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
No doubt they are worried that you might accidentally wear a kippot made of two kinds of cloth. But seriously, it's a religious rule, you expect it to make sense?
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
It's definetly not something unusual...I have a very hard time following rules that I don't see the immediate point to. Sometimes it's a bad thing, because some rules have long term points that are hard to see, and I tend not to follow those either. But some rules ARE pointless, and I think it's just a matter of personality if you're willing to follow those or not. I know that I myself cannot. If I were suddenly put into 1984, I would be dead in a matter of days. I never saw this as a bad thing...I get frustrated with some people who are dedicated to following certain rules that are so pointless. A lot of times I get into agruments because they make me try to follow these rules and I just start insisting, it DOESN'T MATTER!
Posts: 464 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
"But seriously, it's a religious rule, you expect it to make sense?"
But that's the thing: it's not a religious rule. There is no rule, AFAIK, the says what kind of material a kippah must be made out of. It's just the school rule. They made it up themselves.
"I get frustrated with some people who are dedicated to following certain rules that are so pointless."
Like some of my classmates who insist there is a purpose to all of the school rules even if we don't understand them...Like the school is some brilliant beauracracy that dictates what kind of kippah we should wear for reasons that are too complex for us to understand. Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Yeah, this sounds like something that needs to be questioned by students and families and explained by the school. How many students are going to be inconvenienced by this decision and are now going to have to go out and obtain new kippot to meet this requirement?
And if I were an employer, I would appreciate input from my employees with regard to decisions that directly affected them.
If the school isnt' willing to explain it to you, then ask your parents to start pressuring the school for answers. And get your friends to do the same. Cause as you said, your parents are paying them to educate you, so the school had better be answering to the folks that are providing the funding!!
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
"How many students are going to be inconvenienced by this decision and are now going to have to go out and obtain new kippot to meet this requirement?"
That's another thing. When they announced the rule they said that if you don't have a kippah that meets those standards that they are selling them at the school for [insert insanely ridiculous price here]. We all laughed out loud when we heard the price.
What's probably going to end up happening is I'm going to get lazy and give up the fight. My parents don't have time to argue with the school. Both work very long days (ironically to put me and my two brothers through this school). Just another thing that I'm going to have to change when I take over the world someday .
I appreciate the support and advice though, I feel better that at least some people understand what I mean.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
That's...astounding. Is there someone else you can talk to at the school besides the teacher you spoke to? If not someone in administration, a regular classroom teacher might suffice; they may be more willing to discuss it with you than the person who initiated the rule will be. I don't know how you've been framing your inquiries so far, but I'd make sure to ask in a pleasant, non-confrontational manner as opposed to an aggressive one (e.g. "Is there a significance to the use of suede as a material for kippot?" as opposed to "Why do our kippot have to be suede?" or, you know, "I HATE MY STUPID SUEDE KIPPAH, THIS RULE SUCKS, WHY?!?!")
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
This reminds me of one of OSC's reviews not too long ago about all the stupid stuff his kid had to buy for school and how some things had to be a certain brand, or a certain size, or a certain color etc.
I think in his case I can see how it might have gotten to that point for some of the teachers (though I do agree it is stupid) because sometimes leaving it up to the kids means they don't have everything they need or anal parents endlessly question teachers about what is needed, yada yada.
But in your case, Gaal, it really does just seem like a dumb rule. I'm not Jewish, but it would seem to me that a Kippah is a Kippah and I can't imagine what difference it might make.
I'm sorry you got detention. But don't lose the need to question. I agree with erosomaniac, find good ways to question, but don't stop doing it. As far as the employer analogy, I think you should also question employers, when appropriate, about rules that don't make sense. Companies want informed and innovative employees. Or at least they should. You'll get bosses who are like this teacher.
posted
If they conveniently sell the exact thing you need, it sure looks suspect.
My HS never had soft drinks until Pepsi offered to pay the school to have exclusively their drink machines in the yard.
I've had employees who had questionable rules too. I left those jobs if they wouldn't explain the rules so that they made sense to me.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I, personally, am I deep hater of stupid rules. Quite honestly, my advice would be to go to the same teacher and point out that yes, your parents are paying for the school, which is why you are owed an explanation. Also, a signed letter from your parents shouldn't be hard to obtain. Write it for them, have them notorize it at the post office if you feel its needed. "Hey mom, dad, read this please, and sign it. Please and thank you. I think your parents would carry more weight... But I also know this. No teacher will EVER, EVER, discuss *anything* with a student during school hours. You need to get their card, or call the school administration, but do. It. At. Home. And private schools especially *have* to listen to your parents. Public schools have a bureocracy that goes until Washington D.C... Private schools bureocracies are limited to the school district, if that. That is extremely odd. They owe you, or your parents, at least an explanation. Anyway, I usually get in trouble for stuff like this (Although a surprising amount of people admire my spunk while simultaneously punishing me.), so keep that in mind. But if your parents handle it, and you aren't on school grounds, you should be fine.
Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
IME, rules about specific types of kippot are generally in reaction to problematic ones (political, satirical, otherwise inappropriate) haven been worn. Might this be the case at your school, Gaal?
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Yep, I agree, they are probably looking to make money from the ones that they sell at the school. Not fair. I'm with Elmer.
Posts: 315 | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
Huh. In my Orthodox schools, suede kippot weren't allowed; only black velvet. It was definitely a cultural thing in that case, rather than a matter of religious law.
Edited to add that while it may be ridiculous, there is a lot of political significance given to kippah type; black velvet, knitted, satin, and suede each have different connotations... and it wouldn't surprise me if they varied between communities.
Posts: 884 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Shmuel: there is a lot of political significance given to kippah type; black velvet, knitted, satin, and suede each have different connotations... and it wouldn't surprise me if they varied between communities.
IME, the "meanings" have became fairly universal (and don't get me started on how idiotic I think the whole thing is) within Orthodox circles.
I don't think it's as true within Conservative circles, and that's what we're talking about, neh?
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
That rule would just make me want to find the most outrageous, inappropriate suede Kippah I could find. This Dilbert one is pretty cool. Or maybe this nice foil zebra print. You could show off your feminine side with this pink suede one! Probably not at all what they intended for you to wear.
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
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My son's yeshiva has some kippah guidelines, but nothing as silly as the "only suede" rule. My kid prefers the big black velvet one, because it stays put without constant readjustment or pins.
I agree that the best tactic would be to get the parents involved. Their objections may carry more weight, and they probably won't land in detention.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Tante, when I was growing up, those were called "barrettes."
I did have a friend who kept his kippah on with bobby pins.
And I'm with MandyM, if they are saying only suede, and not making rules about color, find a really cool suede kippah. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:if my future employer would make a rule that I disagreed with if I would argue with him about it instead of just accepting it.
Definately yes!
And if I were that employer, and one of my employees disagreed with a rule of mine, I would insist that he talk about it with me. That is one of the basics of modern management. The idea that employees are drones, robots to do only what the managers command, is outdated and the surest ticket to financial ruin, for the employer and the employee.
At the least, if your employer created a rule that was illegal, or costly--that everyone must donate to his political campaign, or that they must work overtime, but not be paid for it, etc it is the surest way to be taken advantage of.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: So, what's the factional significance of wearing a suede kippot?
There is none. What GaalDornick isn't mentioning is the social factor that comes into play with crocheted kippot.
I went to a modern Orthodox high school, and I suspect that I know why they made this rule at Gaal's school. What winds up happening is that you have girls spending time during classes crocheting kippot for boys that they like. It's kind of a hokey little courting ritual.
My best friend was dating my cousin all through high school, and she must have made him several dozen kippot.
And then there's the fact that boys who aren't popular don't get kippot made for them.
It's a thing. I'm not saying that they're right to make such a rule; in fact, I think it's probably a bad idea, and I hope it doesn't last. But I also think there's more to it than just arbitrary rule-making.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
If it were StarLisa's case, couldn't they just say "no crocheted kippot" instead of it must be suede.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
No, there was no problem with boys wearing inappropriate kippahs last year or girls making them for certain guys or anything like that.
I stopped the principal in the hallway and asked her if she could please explain to me why I wasn't allowed to wear said kippah and she said something about Hillel, an Orthodox Jewish school an hour away, having the same rule. Then she mumbled something else, then walked away. I'm going to try to fish for a little more of an answer tomorrow. I don't want to get my parents involved, I want to try to settle this myself and I don't think they'd care anyways and they'd probably tell me to just follow the rule anyways.
In other news, the same guy I'm having a problem with gave something like 45 (!) people detention last Friday because they were wearing shorts (the rule is pants on Fridays) even though it was a half day because of a holiday. No warning to any of these kids, it was the first time they wore shorts on Fridays. Two detentions apiece. Detentions were implemented this year for the first time in this school. This guy, whom I now hate with a passion, is having way too much fun giving out detentions. I think I'm going to try to talk to him tomorrow during lunch and explain to him why I think he's out of control (except nicer). He used to be my tennis coach and we used to be friends. Now, everyone hates him.
Also annoying is that no other students seem to care about how crazy this guy is being. They just try to abide by his crazy rules more instead of protesting them. I, like other people in this thread, have a hatred for stupid rules and I'd rather fight them then just do the smart thing and accept them.
Thanks for the advice everyone and for listening to me rant about this.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: I stopped the principal in the hallway and asked her if she could please explain to me why I wasn't allowed to wear said kippah and she said something about Hillel, an Orthodox Jewish school an hour away, having the same rule.
Uh . . . ok, that's just weird.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Bald men need to wear bigger kippot, so that they stay well-seated on the head without bobby pins or kippah clips.
The velcro in question is only half a velcro -- the rough half -- that lends a little extra traction so that they kippah doesn't slide off the hair so easily. I suppose it would work best with short, nappy hair, the kind that you don't see too much of among the yeshiva boys.
<-- this guy has no kippah under his black hat!
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Tante, how does that work for bald men?
It doesn't. But honestly, those things don't really work at all, regardless of length and/or quantity of hair.
Humans don't have head fur.
I've seen people who use double-stick tape. I used to joke with my Dad that he could always use a thumbtack. <grin> In fact, he has a leather one, so it pretty much sticks to his head. Vinyl would probably work as well.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by pooka: I've seen gay pride Kippot, Gator fan Kippot, ying and yang Kippot, Olympics 2002 Kippot...
There was an Olympics in 2002?
GaalDornick, You can tell your school that in the Charles E. Smith high-school, which is a department in the well-famed Hartman Insisute in Jerusalem, there is no such rule, which seems to make little religious sense as it is.
You can also tell your school, if you want, that in that school, the same amount as 2/3 of the requirements for the national Israeli matriculation exams are solely religious studies (Bible, Talmud and a special course of Jewish philosophy).
Neither Rabbi Hartman (student of Soloveitchic, or however the name isn't spelt, who was the leader of modern orthodoxy), not rabbi Adam Frank (head of one of the larger Conservative congregations in Jreusalem) wear suede kippot.
Then again, I doubt your school will care. Good luck!
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I don't believe the school (or anyone else) is claiming this is a religious rule. It is a uniform code rule -- but perhaps one which could stand some scrutiny.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Wow...I read this entire thread before realizing what a kippah was.
Gaal, you can always protest. Don't say anything or cause a fuss, but just wear your own kippah. If it is in no way offensive or distracting, can they really punish you harshly for doing so? (By harshly I mean suspension from school or worse...you may have to endure a pointless detention or two.)
Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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