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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Copyright and Paranoia on Internet Fora (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Copyright and Paranoia on Internet Fora
Pelegius
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If I am the only person of this forum who distrusts Lisa's brand of religious Romantic-Nationalism, I am shocked to learn so. I am, perhaps, its most vocal critic.
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Bob_Scopatz
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quote:
I have deleted one thread for reasons which I have explained, which rivka has characteristically chosen not to mention.
Pelegius,

If you believe that rivka has a lack of forth-rightness as a personal characteristic, you have far less understanding of her than you think you do.


As for your observations of Lisa, I can't even figure out what Messiah-infused Romantic-Nationalism means, so I can't begin to say whether I agree with your assessment or not.

However, I'm hard-pressed to think of a single person that Lisa has actually run off of Hatrack. I know there are people that will not post in threads that she starts, or will stop posting in a thread once she posts -- usually in threads having to do with the Middle East. But that's a far cry from being run off by her. In most cases, it's just because they know there's no use trying to discuss those topics with her. They all already know pretty much what the other person is going to say and rather than pollute the board with more of it, they simply choose to look elsewhere.

Lisa is perfectly entitled to her opinions and, at least so far, none of the mods have asked her to leave.

In fact, she pretty much has the same rights here as you. Or me. Or anyone else.

And it doesn't matter if her politics are upsetting. As long as she abides by the TOS, nobody is going to get rid of her either.

I'm really curious as to what prompted this whole thread and your whiny attitude in it. I mean, really...one person asked you to limit lyrics quotations to two lines. Papa Janitor came in and politely asked you to change it. You not only gritched about it, but started a whole whiny thread to complain about how picked on you are.

You have the same rights as everyone else. In other words, you aren't special. Get over it. Calm down and relax a little.

[ November 19, 2006, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Bob_Scopatz ]

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rivka
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quote:
If you believe that rivka has a lack of forth-rightness as a personal characteristic, you have far less understanding of her than you think you do.
Thanks, Bob. [Smile]
quote:
However, I'm hard-pressed to think of a single person that Lisa has actually run off of Hatrack.
There's at least one, and I think possibly others.

Mind, I don't understand giving another poster that much power over you. But that's me. *shrug*

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Pelegius
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The problem is that Lisa takes her personal problems with me to all threads on which we both post, not just political threads. Indeed, I do not think I have tried to discuss politics with here in some time.

As for rivka, she is very forthight in her views, but, like many of us, disiclined to share information which contradicts those views.

[edited for clarity]

[ November 19, 2006, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Pelegius ]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I can't even figure out what Messiah-infused Romantic-Nationalism means
It means that Pel thinks she thinks God wants her to idealize and support the nation of Israel.

--------

quote:
The problem is that Lisa takes her personal problems with to all threads on which we both post, not just political threads.
"I say, Mr. Pot, who is that striking fellow?"
"I honestly can't say, Ms. Ladle. But he doesn't seem like much to me. Rather dark, don't you think?"

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Bob_Scopatz
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[Laugh] Tom.


I could almost parse your explanation. You should hire yourself out as a translator.

rivka,

no prob. It's also true, and therefor easy and a pleasure to say.

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Bob_Scopatz
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Pel,

so if something is, iyo, a characteristic of all humans, you feel comfortable using it to describe individuals as if it somehow sets them apart? That rivka! She's an habitual respirator!

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pH
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Tom wins.

-pH

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Icarus
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I can't even figure out what Messiah-infused Romantic-Nationalism means
It means that Pel thinks she thinks God wants her to idealize and support the nation of Israel.
Where's the Orthodox Jewish Messiah come into it?
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Bob_Scopatz
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His firm gets the contract to rebuild the temple. Do try to keep up...
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Tresopax
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Something has gone awry with the copyright system. It has reached the point where it damages our ability to share/appreciate creative works far more than it encourages the production of creative works. (For instance, I seriously doubt many artists think "I need to write this so my descendants will have extra income 30 years after I am dead" when they are deciding whether or not to produce some new great poem.)

And since we live in a democracy, we are entitled to alter that law when it no longer benefits our nation. The trouble is that there are a bunch of companies with a lot of money riding on the continuation of copyright laws, who would prefer to make copyrights extend as absurdly far as possible. I suspect the source of any "paranoia" begins there. If that is the case then the solution is to get better politicians to represent our interests, who will make better copyright laws - rather than complain about what rules OSC must enforce in order to conform with the law.

Well, either that or vote with your wallet. If you don't like copyright laws, stop paying money to those who won't let you share their works freely over mediums like the internet. In the case of poetry, you could always write your own. [Wink]

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Dagonee
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quote:
Something has gone awry with the copyright system. It has reached the point where it damages our ability to share/appreciate creative works far more than it encourages the production of creative works. (For instance, I seriously doubt many artists think "I need to write this so my descendants will have extra income 30 years after I am dead" when they are deciding whether or not to produce some new great poem.)
Can you give an example of the ability to share/appreciate creative works being damaged?
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King of Men
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For example, I cannot post the entire text of "Dune" to the thread for the discussion of the series. I'm sure this has seriously discommoded many people's ability to enjoy the work.
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Tresopax
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quote:
Can you give an example of the ability to share/appreciate creative works being damaged?
Well, there are thousands of books, poems, songs, films, and other works of art that we could all have access to right now, at this instant, if copyright laws did not exist.

This is the cost of copyright laws. There is a point up to which the benefits of copyright laws outweigh this cost, because it encourages the production of more works that we will eventually have access to in the future. However, I think we are well beyond that point if the works are still being restricted decades after the creator is dead.

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pH
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Men:
For example, I cannot post the entire text of "Dune" to the thread for the discussion of the series. I'm sure this has seriously discommoded many people's ability to enjoy the work.

I cry myself to sleep every night over that, KoM.

-pH

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Icarus
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Whereas I stay awake each night, a cure for my insomnia just out of reach. Damn those copyright laws!!! [Mad]
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Chris Bridges
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The problem with that argument is that it can be boiled down to "I don't want to pay for this stuff but I still want it." That's certainly the way Disney's lawyers would describe it and it's far too easy to make it sound petty and selfish in the eyes of a court.

A better one might be the impossibility of effectively enforcing copyright laws in this age of near perfect, near instant reproduction and distribution, bringing us to the point where we must recraft copyright laws if they are to remain relevant.

Or the position of Spider Robinson's protagonist in his short story "Melancholy Elephants," i.e. that so many people are creating for the world to enjoy, a larger percentage than ever before, that it is rapidly becoming impossible to come up with anything new that isn't infringing on a previous work. In this story, releasing works into public domain earlier is more like recycling.

What I would like to see are options for changing copyright laws that would still maintain attribution to the creator and some form of compensation that makes it worthwhile to create.

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Bob_Scopatz
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I think Chris is "nearly" right. The problem with copyright laws in the context of near perfect, near-instant reproduction is that the old ways for others to make money off an artist's work are disappearing. Sadly, those ways are the most secure ways for artists to also make money off of their own efforts.

We don't have a model in place (the "internet" is not a good enough answer...yet) for artists to make serious money and there is almost no role right now for the middle men who used to guarantee at least a secure pay off.

The best system would be one that guaranteed the creator of a work some income every time that work was accessed, until the copyright expired. That's tough to do if we can all file share -- then we're just on our honor to pay the creative talent. I think there are some who have done a good job of making a buck while giving away the essential creation. They merchandise the heck out of it, but that does seem to work. Cristo sells numbered photos of his works and leaves the works open to the public. Sells the original design documents for big bucks too. Some people make board games of their stuff...Whatever.

I'd rather see a way for people to get the money by making access to the works cost a small amount. Like OSC's online magazine. That's a good model too. I'd like to see more of that kind of thing. You pay a small fee and that unlocks the content.

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fugu13
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Chris: luckily, copyright requires there be a line of descent. If you come up with something independently, its not entangled by the copyright of other things no matter how much it resembles them. Of course, given sufficient resemblance it would be difficult to convince people one came up with something independently.

Patents, however, don't require a relation with an earlier work for there to be infringement.

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