DDR is alot of fun, and a decent way to ultimately get an aerobic workout. You have to get past the basic skill levels however before you really start to sweat.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Bok, this time last year Gears of War had just sold a million copies, and the ratio of games sold (again with Xbox Live Arcade exlcuded) to Xbox 360 consoles sold was about 5:1.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Alucard...: I just picked up the "Orange Box" for 360 last night with Half-Life 2, Team Fortress, and all the other goodies, including the instantly addictive game, Portal.
For my money, if I could only own ONE system, it would be a 360.
Absolutely, for gamers the 360 seems to be the overwhelming choice (Including myself).
That said, I think the Wii is enjoying it's success precisely by marketing to everyone who is not a dedicated gamer. Many Wii games are something you can pick up and play easily in a social or casual setting. Additionally the titles seem remain predominantly family friendly.
And the Wiimote is awesome.
I expect from the parental perspective the 360 and the PS3 have a lackluster image due to higher cost coupled with darker titles marketed to more mature audiences.
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Well, Manhunt 2 will test the Wii's family-friendly image, I'd imagine.
The other thing the Wii has is plenty of "party" games, where several people of differing gamer-skill levels can get together on a roughly even playing field. By contrast, adding a non-gamer to a Halo group is a recipe for frustration.
I'm totally stoked about the zapper, too. That should be freaking awesome.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I agree about Halo, but I certainly don't think the playing field is even in party games like Monkey Ball or Raving Rabbids. My experience with those has been that the most skilled person wins most of the time.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Oh, okay. Yeah, Monkey Ball and Raving Rabbids are the first games I think of when I think "party games" on the Wii, probably because in addition to Wii Sports they're the ones I've played.
I'd say that Wii Tennis and Wii Golf reflect what you're talking about, though.
Added: I definitely disagree about Mario Kart. In every incarnation of the game I've played, I invariably got smoked by my gamer friends who owned the game -- this was back when I wasn't a console gamer.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote: Well, Manhunt 2 will test the Wii's family-friendly image, I'd imagine.
There are definitely a number of mature titles for the Wii. They aren't advertised as consistently to the general public. Nintendo is conciously targeting non-gaming segments of the population for the Wii and the DS. I was just trying to imply that, after the low tag price, marketing to a much broader audience is probably the primary factor propelling the Wii to the top of the sales demographics. To it's credit, the Wii is something everyone can have fun with.
Mario kart for the Wii? I might have to make that a 'gift' to my sister. (we need a nonchalant whistle graemlin)
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Even if you get smoked in Mario Kart, it's still a hell of a lot of fun. The "battle" modes are even more fun than the race modes.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I know it's fun, but you said that high-skill and low-skill players would be on a roughly even playing field, which isn't true in Mario Kart.
I think calaban's point is well taken: much of Nintendo's Wii marketing shows people gaming together in the same room, or non-traditional gamers playing Wii games. Microsoft, on the other hand, has thrown by far its largest marketing efforts behind M-rated games: Gears of War and Halo 3 (and Mass Effect shortly, I think).
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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True, in Mario Kart you probably wouldn't be on an even playing field - but at least you could be competitive.
I think it was several dozen games before I beat my friend at Mario Kart, though I always *felt* I had a chance. And in the battle options, there was always a chance to blow someone up once, even if you couldn't do it consistently.
While Mario Kart is a game of skill, it's a game of far less skill than true "gamer" games like Halo, Call of Duty, etc. Plus, it's far easier to rotate people in and out of game play after bouts, so you can easily have 8-10 people constantly involved.
Then again, I love Mario Kart, so I'm biased. It was the only game of Nintendo's that I consistently enjoyed - though a single game was never enough for me to buy any Nintendo console after SNES. Wii had a lot of interesting games I wanted, so I've finally purchased a console again.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I think maybe we're working from different definitions of "competitive." I also don't like Mario Kart as much as you do -- I haven't played any Mario Kart games since Mario Kart 64, and I don't particularly feel like I'm missing out. My gaming queue is so full of story-driven games that I don't have time for the more casual stuff, except on portables (e.g. Puzzle Quest DS).
quote:Plus, it's far easier to rotate people in and out of game play after bouts, so you can easily have 8-10 people constantly involved.
I don't get what you mean by this. The way I parse it, this is just as easy to do in any other local multiplayer game as it is in Mario Kart: someone hands a controller to someone else.
I do agree that dual analog FPS controls are nontrivial to pick up, and that the arcadey racing controls of Mario Kart are much easier.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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I know that I'm considering buying a Wii only because the time I have available to game is also the time I have to spend with my wife.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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What I mean is that the games are shorter and faster paced, I think - you get to the finish line and swap out.
Compared to other games, like Halo (I've only ever played the first one), it seemed like the "rounds" were longer. Plus, it was more fun to watch people play Mario Kart than to watch them play Halo.
Of course, ymmv.
I think I just want the steering wheel attachment. Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I already got a Wii because much of the time I have available to game is also much of the time I have to spend with my girlfriend Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Of course, ymmv.
Definitely. I find Halo much more interesting to watch, and most girls I know find both equally uninteresting to watch. Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: What I mean is that the games are shorter and faster paced, I think - you get to the finish line and swap out.
Oh, okay. That's certainly true with the defaults -- three laps is shorter than first to 50 kills, which is the default setting in the default game type in Halo 3.
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I know that I'm considering buying a Wii only because the time I have available to game is also the time I have to spend with my wife.
It depends on what sorts of games you want to play together -- competitive or co-operative -- but I imagine you know that already. The console I've done the most local co-op gaming on with my girlfriend is the PS2, by far*. We almost never play competitive video games against one another.
On the other hand, I bet the Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles Wii title will be a blast co-op. [Added: And with the Wii's installed base one would hope you'll be at least reasonably well-served by third-party titles in addition to Nintendo's usual offering of top-notch first-party stuff.]
*We've put even more time than that into Neverwinter Nights together, but that's playing online co-op when we aren't in the same house (or state, or country). [Added: And on the PS2 we were playing nothing but action RPGs co-op. We just played a lot of them.]
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Christy and I have discovered that while we enjoy playing action RPGs in co-op mode (which we've done, too), she rapidly tires of the ridiculously long, artificially-extended "challenges."
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Yeah, when we played the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance games, we got to the end and were like "What? We just spent 15 hours massacring enemies for that?" And I got a bit tired of the action RPG formula after we played a few together. We moved on to Lego Star Wars II after that.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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One of the things I sort of learned with the wii is that there are different types of enjoyment with video games.
I like the challenge and the pretty sights and sounds, but playing (certain games) on the wii is huge smile-inducing fun in a away I don't think I've experienced with other systems (maybe with Super smash Brothers).
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Juxtapose: The companies will still publish quarterly sales reports, no?
They publish quarterly shipments to retailers -- NPD counts actual retail sales. [Added: Actually, NPD estimates actual retail sales from a combination of counting and educated guesses for retailers who don't report their sales.]
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I guess I just don't see why that's a significantly worse method of determining retail sales. Unless merchants are stocking way more units than they're selling, of course.
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Well, it's quarterly shipment figures from manufacturers versus monthly sales figures --including sales of individual games -- from NPD.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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When I was telling my father about how the Wii was so much better than the PS3 before he up and got the Wii, I mentioned that once you play one first-person-shooter, you've played them all. And first-person-shooters are best on computers anyway, where you have the mouse. I admit that in addition to Battlefront II, I have played a lot of Metroid Prime 3 (borrowed from a friend), and it is a different experience altogether, mostly because Nintendo designed the game very well and the Wiimote changes everything in the manner of gameplay.
Not so with any other console. Their controllers are basically the same as before, save PS3's SIXAXIS, which is only useful in their racing games, and X-box 360's addition of more shoulder buttons, which isn't that awesome at all.
Yet with the Wii, you get some things that have something for everyone, some things that have everything for everyone, or other things that target audiences who aren't necessarily the stereotypical hardcore gamer.
And you know what? I'm a rather dedicated gamer, and I'm fine with the Wii. I like it much better than my friend's 360, and when I look at the demo PS3 at the local BestBuy, I laugh. Who wants to scroll through their menus with unpredictable analog sticks when they have the precision of the Wiimote's infrared sensor?
Lately I haven't been playing on my Wii much (hooked on Phantom Hourglass), but I await with much anticipation LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga and Super Mario Galaxy, which will surely be enough to hold me over until a forever of Smash Bros bliss.
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I love my Wii, but let's be real here: the infrared sensor is definitely NOT more precise than an analog stick.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I love my Wii, but let's be real here: the infrared sensor is definitely NOT more precise than an analog stick.
You know I really think this depends on the game. In some games it has felt quite cluncky, but in others it's very responsive.
Also by precise you should also gauge that movements are possible with the wiimote that are not on an analog stick. I can't imagine trying to play Trauma Center with an analog stick, that game made me want to tear my hair out with a precise wiimote that was doing it's job just fine.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Tom, it sucks because I enjoyed seeing the number comparisons each month, and now I'll have to do a lot more google-fu to find them.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Noooooo! I was writing a long post and then I lost it when I closed the wrong browser window.
...actually, that isn't a bad example of one of the things my post talked about, since I'm using IE6 here at work. Windows in the Taskbar are all the same size and shape; multiple windows from the same application can easily look identical. For example, two items that say "Hatrack River Forum:..." since there isn't space to include part of the thread title. Since the hit targets were the same size, shape, and colour, I moused over and closed the wrong one, thus losing my post.
In Nintendo's Wii interface, the user is presented with a dozen (IIRC) on-screen items that are the same size, same shape, and packed close together. The interface mechanism is a pointer that's reasonably good at tracking what you want to point at, but nevertheless I consistently find myself having to make several adjustments in succession to hit the target I'm aiming for. And really, the "games" button ought to be four or five times the size of the "photos" button. How often do people actually use a Wii to display photos, compared to how often they use it to play games?
So yes, I vastly prefer Microsoft's Xbox 360 user interface -- which is somewhat visually unappealing, but very functional -- to Nintendo's pretty but awkward Wii interface.
I also prefer dual analog to KB+M for first-person shooters, but I recognize that as a matter of taste. KB+M is clearly more precise; I simply find dual analog much more comfortable, and am not terribly concerned about the loss of precision.
Oh, and I disagree with C3PO about shooters, too. Playing Ghost Recon doesn't prepare you for playing BioShock, unless you don't care about story in games. Though I guess if you're playing Metroid Prime 3 (don't get me wrong, I love Prime and Prime 2, but story-driven they are not) and anticipating Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros, you probably aren't as into games with strong and/or compelling narrative as I am. I'm not very interested in Mario Galaxy or Smash Bros, but I'm enjoying The Darkness right now and eagerly waiting for Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, and Too Human down the road. To each their own, though. Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Of course, you can move unused/underused items to other pages on the Wii, simplifying the interface as much as you want. Heck, you can even remove the channels in the display if you want (aside from the game one, I think).
I still think the Wii is ahead of the xbox as far as basic user understanding. You point, you click a button. There are some tech limitations (too close or too far from the screen, bright IR sources, glass reflections, and they should have some kind of nesting feature, for things like VC games), but the 360 seems to take 2-3 times the button presses as the Wii. It may be better for a hardcore user of computers/consoles, who groks the idioms in UIs, but I think the channels paradigm is clearer to use.
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The 360 actually defaults to launching the game in the tray on startup, so some people will never even see the Dashboard.
Anyway, as far as I know, you can't change the size or shape of the channels, and they're all uniform, which is my core criticism of the Wii's channel UI.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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True, but your criticism can be worked around by deleting or moving off the first page unused icons. But yeah, it'd be nice to have a quick launch on the Wii.
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Okay, before the "precision of the Wiimote's infrared sensor" jokes continue...
I played a couple PS2 third-party titles a few years ago, and abandoned the whole thing altogether because when I tilted the analog stick down to select something on a menu, the thing scrolled so fast I got dizzy.
The Wiimote is actually really precise when you're not far from the TV. (I'm talking 5-6 feet here.) I have noticed if I try to play from the very back of the room, it does respond less precisely.
However, I absolutely detest having to tilt an analog stick just the right amount to go to the next button on a column of a dozen buttons. With the Wii (or more preferably, when it comes to menu selection, the DS) it is so much easier for me to just point at the button.
Now, don't get me wrong on how much I'm into video games here. I play several hours every day; essentially whenever I'm not working on real-life obligations, Game Maker, or Star Wars Fanon (a wiki-based website for Star Wars fanfictions). I am currently mostly into reliving Battlefront II, as I don't have much for the Wii that's not been played in a long time. That will change Monday.
I'm hardcore enough to get people who want me to be doing other things (no, I'm not a teenager who thinks his parents are trying to take over his, life, I'm talking about my brother) to frequently joke about how I'm always in front of a screen. I just am really into what Nintendo has to offer. Seriously, Mario doesn't make people into automatic "light casual gamers," who stereotypically are either retired or in preschool.
Then again, I lead a very big life outside video games, and playing them isn't the most important thing to me. I enjoy a set of narrow, intense interests, and gaming is only one of them. Nevertheless, I am as hardcore as a rational Wii fanboy gets.
And yes, if you've played one first person shooter, you've played them all. It's usually very similar gameplay, and the only reason one doesn't prepare you for the other is that the controls for the more specialized moves aren't always the same.
Posts: 1029 | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by twinky: The 360 actually defaults to launching the game in the tray on startup, so some people will never even see the Dashboard.
Anyway, as far as I know, you can't change the size or shape of the channels, and they're all uniform, which is my core criticism of the Wii's channel UI.
I don't really care about the size or shape of the channels. However, I would LOVE for launching the game in tray to be the default when you turn on the Wii. Or to have auto-launch be an option you could turn on somewhere.
quote:Originally posted by Bok: True, but your criticism can be worked around by deleting or moving off the first page unused icons.
That's true, and it also helps most people's channel list is sparsely populated, but I think the selection area is too small even so. I'd love it if the "Play game" channel occupied 1/4 to 1/2 of the entire channel listing area, since that's almost always what I want to do when I turn on a Wii.
I actually prefer not to use auto-launch, but I agree that it's a good option to have.
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: I played a couple PS2 third-party titles a few years ago, and abandoned the whole thing altogether because when I tilted the analog stick down to select something on a menu, the thing scrolled so fast I got dizzy. ... However, I absolutely detest having to tilt an analog stick just the right amount to go to the next button on a column of a dozen buttons. With the Wii (or more preferably, when it comes to menu selection, the DS) it is so much easier for me to just point at the button.
I don't have anything against the Wii -- I'm not going to buy one, but that's because my girlfriend owns one and therefore I don't need to -- but if you're going to claim that the Wii does this or that better than its competition, you should at least try to be accurate in your claims about what the competition does. This is not how -- for example -- the Xbox 360's Dashboard interface works. One flick of the right thumbstick moves you one selection up or down in the menu. Holding the stick in a direction moves you continuously, but very few of the menus are large enough to make that worth doing. My experience with the PS3 has been limited, but I did navigate some menus, and IIRC they worked that way as well.
I agree that the DS absolutely nails it, though. I think my ideal handheld would have a widescreen like the PSP's but a touch interface like the DS's. In the meantime I'll stick with the DS.
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: And yes, if you've played one first person shooter, you've played them all.
Again, the only way this can be construed as true is if you don't care about story.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: And yes, if you've played one first person shooter, you've played them all.
Again, the only way this can be construed as true is if you don't care about story.
Even if you don't care about the story, I don't see how this could be construed as true. I don't care for first person shooters all that much, but compare the gameplay in, say, the Quake games, the Thief games, the Descent Games, and Portal.
Yeah, I know, all three of those franchises are ancient. The point remains.
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quote:Again, the only way this can be construed as true is if you don't care about story.
Story in FPSs as an actual narrative instead of barely window-dressing is a relatively recent and by no means ubiquitous development. A person could have experience with a reasonably large number of FPSs and still think that they are all basically the same, even with the caring about story thing.
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quote:Originally posted by twinky: Though I guess if you're playing Metroid Prime 3 (don't get me wrong, I love Prime and Prime 2, but story-driven they are not) and anticipating Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros, you probably aren't as into games with strong and/or compelling narrative as I am.
I don't see why one excludes the other here.
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I disagree strongly with the "played one FPS you've played them all" statement, even disregarding story entirely.
Based solely on gameplay, Quake 1/2/3 are nothing like CounterStrike or Rainbow Six. They're so different that one could argue they're different sub-genres even, but they are definitely both First Person Shooters.
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Regarding the story statement -- only when the story is good do I actually care. When I read a book or watch a movie, I want a good story that can entertain me.
In a video game, the entertainment should not come from the story at all. Am I the only one here who usually presses the A button or whatever to skip cutscenes or monotonous dialogue as fast as possible so I can get to actually playing the game? There are notable exceptions, of course. Super Paper Mario's dialogue is so darn funny that it's worth every second reading the cartoony speech bubbles.
Usually, in a video game, however, the entertainment is not experiencing something entertaining, but controlling something that fits your desire for entertainment. The story sometimes helps, but video game stories aren't usually very good and I'd rather make up my own story just for the sake of liberty.
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Perhaps not ubiquitous -- at least until Half-Life -- but also not recent.
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: A person could have experience with a reasonably large number of FPSs and still think that they are all basically the same, even with the caring about story thing.
That doesn't make the assertion "If you've played one FPS, you've played them all" actually true. That's like listening to Today's Top 40 Pop Hits and then complaining that all modern music sounds the same.
quote:Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick: I don't see why one excludes the other here.
Excludes? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. It seemed to me that C3PO's preferences tended away from story-driven games because of the games he listed as his favourites and most anticipated upcoming titles. I definitely don't think that liking story driven games means you can't like storyless games, though.
quote:Originally posted by Enigmatic: Based solely on gameplay, Quake 1/2/3 are nothing like CounterStrike or Rainbow Six. They're so different that one could argue they're different sub-genres even, but they are definitely both First Person Shooters.
Agreed. I think the tactical shooter is a sub-genre:)
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: In a video game, the entertainment should not come from the story at all.
This is an opinion, not a fact. There are certainly people -- like me, for instance -- who like at least some of the entertainment to come from the narrative.
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: Am I the only one here who usually presses the A button or whatever to skip cutscenes or monotonous dialogue as fast as possible so I can get to actually playing the game?
I doubt you're the only one, but I certainly don't do that. If the story, dialogue, or cutscenes are "monotonous" in a single-player game, I'm generally not playing the game at all, save for necessarily storyless games like Tetris and also turn-based strategy games (including strategy RPGs).
A story doesn't have to be on the level of BioShock for me to enjoy it, but I definitely tend to prefer games where the story is something more than "Oh no! The princess is in another castle!" Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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I also don't like Mario Kart as much as you do -- I haven't played any Mario Kart games since Mario Kart 64, and I don't particularly feel like I'm missing out. My gaming queue is so full of story-driven games that I don't have time for the more casual stuff, except on portables (e.g. Puzzle Quest DS).![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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