posted
It's like Girls Gone Wild is the driving force behind our culture now. And if you watch those videos (I've watched a few), they're porn. That's all it is, and it seem like girls feel like that is what they have to be now. Porn stars. Go get a tattoo on your lower back and perform sexual acts for anyone who asks. It's depressing.
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posted
It seems hypocritical for you to decry people for producing products that you choos to consume.
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This isn't new. The only thing that's new is the sudden publicity, and the fact that they got caught.
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posted
Perhaps you're confusing civil and confrontational, Resh. mph's post was plenty civil -- at least as much so as your first post.
I don't disagree with what I'd presume is the main thrust of your original post -- I don't think I do, anyway -- independent of its presentation. But aside from making sure legal SSM is prevented, do you have a solution? Or just a direction?
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quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: Way to start this off on a civil footing, porteiro.
Sorry, ricree. You haven't heard about the scandals with Miss USA and all that?
All I've heard about was some drinking and clubbing. A little wild maybe, but nothing particularly horrible. It hasn't exactly been something I've been following, though, so I don't know exactly what you're complaining about.
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posted
But there are so many girls who are like this. Girls are so promiscuous and shameless. It was one thing when guys were like that, but now it's like girls are trying to compete with them in the raunchiness department.
And I think it's pretty new for these Miss USA types. Young girls used to have to be respectable to be respected. Now the most famous and look-up to gilrs act like they're auditioning for a Girls Gone Wild video.
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posted
And regarding various pageants, as far as I'm concerned until and unless they remove anything resembling a swimsuit competition they're rewarding exactly what they think they are (and what you claim they are), and Lyrhawn is probably right that there's nothing new here except the publicity.
Sorry for the double-post. Too tempting with the Quick Reply box. I'm so weak.
[Edit -- wow... quick-moving thread. I thought it was going to be a double-post.]
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posted
If you think it is shameless for young women to behave like that, why do you watch those videos?
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posted
Well, it's not, I guess. Girls just used to have had more virtue. Or they were expected to act like ladies, and to value their chastity. Guys would act like rakes, and they would get their come-uppence from some young girl's brother or father if they got out of line. I don't know. This new culture is just unsettling.
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posted
But back in "those days," if the men were running around, they had to be running around with SOMEONE. That's the part that's always confused me, the idea that it's more usual for boys to run around, but not girls. Because otherwise, who are the boys running around with (besides each other)?
posted
It's not any worse for girls than it is for boys. It's really not bad for either one. Who gave you the responsibility to legislate behavior, and what does a lower back tattoo have to do with anything?
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posted
R has a point, though. It used to be much more socially acceptable for men to behave in such ways then for women to do it.
Personally, I think it's a shame that, as a culture, we acheived equality by lowering the women's standard down to the men's instead of raising men's standard up to the women's.
And I'm still waiting for a response from you, Resh -- do you think it's OK for you to support the making of those videos which you are speaking out against?
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quote:Originally posted by pH: But back in "those days," if the men were running around, they had to be running around with SOMEONE. That's the part that's always confused me, the idea that it's more usual for boys to run around, but not girls. Because otherwise, who are the boys running around with (besides each other)?
-pH
I think that men were probably TRYING to get laid as much then as now. It just wasn't possible to score then as it is know, where the slightest effort will get some drunk girl at a bar into your bed (or backseat.) Before the "free love" revolution in the sixties, if a girl had pre-marital sex, she had a lot to answer for. Maybe it wasn't fair. But I can't help but be depressed everytime I see some perfectly nice looking young girl with one of those tattoos on their lower back. Because it's true what Vince Vaughn said in the Wedding Crashers, that's like a stamp that say's "I'm easy!" (paraphrasing)
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quote:Originally posted by pH: But back in "those days," if the men were running around, they had to be running around with SOMEONE. That's the part that's always confused me, the idea that it's more usual for boys to run around, but not girls. Because otherwise, who are the boys running around with (besides each other)?
-pH
I think that men were probably TRYING to get laid as much then as now. It just wasn't possible to score then as it is know, where the slightest effort will get some drunk girl at a bar into your bed (or backseat.) Before the "free love" revolution in the sixties, if a girl had pre-marital sex, she had a lot to answer for. Maybe it wasn't fair. But I can't help but be depressed everytime I see some perfectly nice looking young girl with one of those tattoos on their lower back. Because it's true what Vince Vaughn said in the Wedding Crashers, that's like a stamp that say's "I'm easy!" (paraphrasing)
I've come to like it when people make this easy for me to write them off.
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posted
I might add, to my original post, that you need to redirect your ire Resh.
Who are you really mad at, the girl in front of the camera, or the guy behind the camera? I submit that you really don't know what the majority of girls are like, because so long as there is a camera there to reward it, there'll always be someone, man or woman, there to take advantage of the situation.
The only thing you're mad at is a vast minority piped into your television set.
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: And I'm still waiting for a response from you, Resh -- do you think it's OK for you to support the making of those videos which you are speaking out against?
Oh sorry. I was ignoring it because I thought you were trying to be a jerk. But no I don't think it's ok. I never actually bought any of them. I borrowed a few from a friend when I was in Iraq. That was a few years ago, and my disgust has only begun surfacing in the past few months. I hate those videos, and I hate the guy who's made millions off of them. He exploits these girls and their insecurities. He approaches these 18 year old girls who are sloppy drunk and get's them to perform for free. They do it because they think it's expected of them, which it is! He's a scourge on society.
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posted
if you expect a girl to act like a lady, you should treat her as one. if you want her to be respectable, treat her with respect.
don't exploit women, don't give money or attention to people that do, if in fact that sort of behavior bothers you.
and i'm with pH on this, i hate the double standard, and i hate the compartmentalization of all those women that men are with in order to be rakes.
"remember when" also includes the more obvious opression and compartmentalization of women. i'm glad we gained sexual freedom, but that doesn't mean we have to use it all the time - publicly.
there have always been loose women, but there have also always been men encouraging a girl to undo them buttons. perhaps if people like the d-bag that produces GGW weren't making millions it wouldn't be so acceptable. and yet somehow, people keep paying, people keep watching. hmm. mystery indeed.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I might add, to my original post, that you need to redirect your ire Resh.
Who are you really mad at, the girl in front of the camera, or the guy behind the camera? I submit that you really don't know what the majority of girls are like, because so long as there is a camera there to reward it, there'll always be someone, man or woman, there to take advantage of the situation.
The only thing you're mad at is a vast minority piped into your television set.
Spot on. I'm sad about the girls. I'm angry at Joe Garcia or whatever his name is. And all those bastards in Hollywood who have their prey walking right into their offices. Actually I'm mad at our "progressive" society that has allowed this to happen. I'm as much to blame as the next guy.
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posted
i also second poteiro, on wishing the reverse expectations had been achieved, concerning the social/sexual behavior of men vs. women.
yes, women may have the freedom to do as they like now, but women are still called sluts while men are still high-fived. i realize there are exceptions, but not enough.
one of my best friends was shaking his head one day, saying it was good that a neighborhood girl had joined the military and left town cause she was "loose booty." i was pissed and demanded that he instead start calling out all the boys that helped in building that loose reputation.
i realize where most of this comes from, but it's bullocks that we haven't gotten past it. a guy wants a girl to be sexually open, so long as it's only with him. and yet he wants more than one option. lame!
quote:Actually I'm mad at our "progressive" society that has allowed this to happen. I'm as much to blame as the next guy.
How would you have society disallow this to happen? By cracking down and outlawing anything that doesn't meet X standard of decency? That's a scary slope to mess with.
I personally blame the people who consume these things. They are the ones paying those people to make the videos.
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posted
I don't go to church, but maybe I need to. I think my problem began when my ex-girlfriend broke up with me. She was one of those girls who was easily exploited. I was very good to her for a year and a half, but we slept together on our first date. Since then I've been trying to meet a girl who isn't like that and I've come up short. That vast minority you speak of, Lyhawn, is a majority within the high school/college age, attractive demographic. The only girls I go to school with who aren't blatantly promiscuous are the unattractive ones. And they go for these scumbags who don't even try to hide the fact of their rakishness.
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quote:Actually I'm mad at our "progressive" society that has allowed this to happen. I'm as much to blame as the next guy.
How would you have society disallow this to happen? By cracking down and outlawing anything that doesn't meet X standard of decency? That's a scary slope to mess with.
I personally blame the people who consume these things. They are the ones paying those people to make the videos.
That's the problem. We aren't in any position to legislate decency. It was a societal thing. We didn't need laws because we had family and community.
I blame the consumer as well. But I don't know why pornography is legal. It should be outlawed. There is no constitutional right to produce that garbage. Don't say speech to me, Larry Flynt.
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posted
There is no such thing as society, only individual agents who choose to act in whatever ever ways they wish. The outrage in this thread is misplaced. No one is being coerced, no one is being exploited.
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quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: I don't go to church, but maybe I need to. I think my problem began when my ex-girlfriend broke up with me. She was one of those girls who was easily exploited. I was very good to her for a year and a half, but we slept together on our first date. Since then I've been trying to meet a girl who isn't like that and I've come up short. That vast minority you speak of, Lyhawn, is a majority within the high school/college age, attractive demographic. The only girls I go to school with who aren't blatantly promiscuous are the unattractive ones. And they go for these scumbags who don't even try to hide the fact of their rakishness.
But not only did she sleep with you. YOU slept with HER. You are just as responsible as she is for the two of you having sex on the first night. If you thought that was wrong, then you could've said no just as well as she could.
quote:But not only did she sleep with you. YOU slept with HER. You are just as responsible as she is for the two of you having sex on the first night. If you thought that was wrong, then you could've said no just as well as she could.
posted
Isn't there a happy medium between being on Girls Gone Wild and sexual repression? I mean, I'm no saint when it comes to sex, but I don't think I'm a slut either.
I'm with pH and porcelain girl. Why the double standard? There's a whole culture around guys needing to 'spread their wild oats' and all that crap. If a girl sleeps with more than one guy she is called 'promiscuous' and 'slut' and other unsavory names. Some guys, on the other hand, seem to tally up their conquests like they did something important. Bah. I'd start calling guys sluts, but they'd probably take it as a compliment.
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posted
I'm right with porteiro and porcelain here. I wish the standard had been raised for men rather than lowered for women.
However, as long as we're going to high-five one gender, we darn well better not be putting down the other. A girl can't have many partners if no guys are willing to play. So as long as girl gets called a slut or whore, there had better be names for all the guys who were right there with her. It's just disgusting how a guy who's had the same number of partners is allowed to self-righteously demean a woman who has only done exactly what he has.
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: I've been called repressed many times, and told that what I consider correct sexual behavior is repressive.
I personally agree with you, but I've come to accept the label.
I see that as the big, big issue in communication between those who do have premarital sex and those who don't. A lot of those who do consider a lot of those who don't to be repressed. But a lot of those who don't consider a lot of those who do to be weak, slutty, or any other number of negative things. You can abstain without being repressed, and you can have sex without being a slut, whether you'e male or female.
quote:Originally posted by pH: But not only did she sleep with you. YOU slept with HER. You are just as responsible as she is for the two of you having sex on the first night. If you thought that was wrong, then you could've said no just as well as she could.
-pH
No argument there. I could have, and she should have. My point is that way back when, I would have been the jerk who tried to pressure a girl into having sex with me, and she would have felt more pressure to resist because she'd be afraid of what people would think of her. Sure it's a double standard, but at least the girl would have remained a virgin and I would have just been out of luck. Things have never been perfect, but on that count, things were better.
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quote:Originally posted by pH: But not only did she sleep with you. YOU slept with HER. You are just as responsible as she is for the two of you having sex on the first night. If you thought that was wrong, then you could've said no just as well as she could.
-pH
No argument there. I could have, and she should have. My point is that way back when, I would have been the jerk who tried to pressure a girl into having sex with me, and she would have felt more pressure to resist because she'd be afraid of what people would think of her. Sure it's a double standard, but at least the girl would have remained a virgin and I would have just been out of luck. I think it was just better.
What's so sacred about virginity? Were you hoping to sacrifice her in a volcano? 'Cuz I don't think God requires that anymore.
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quote:But I don't know why pornography is legal. It should be outlawed.
I have to say, I find this statement more offensive than anything Miss USA ever did.
Why? You a big fan of exploitation?
It's not exploitation. I find it offensive that you think you know what's best for everybody, and not only do you know what's best, you want to force everyone to conform to your knowledge.
I find it offensive that you stick your nose into into business that is no concern of yours, and isn't hurting anyone, least of all you.
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quote:But I don't know why pornography is legal. It should be outlawed.
I have to say, I find this statement more offensive than anything Miss USA ever did.
Why? You a big fan of exploitation?
It's not exploitation. I find it offensive that you think you know what's best for everybody, and not only do you know what's best, you want to force everyone to conform to your knowledge.
I find it offensive that you stick your nose into into business that is no concern of yours, and isn't hurting anyone, least of all you.
Not hurting anyone, huh? You wanna think about that? The argument can be made that it's hurting plenty of people. First, the girls, many of whom are underage, who ARE being exploited, regardless of your denial. Second, the people whose souls are numbed by this garbage, some of whom become addicted to it like a drug. Then there are all the women who are looked at like objects by more and more men (and women) because of this pornography-obsessed society. And these women go on to act like tramps because that's what is expected of them. And finally, the poor father who pays his beautiful young daughter's college bills, up late one night, who switches the channel to Comedy Central and sees his daughter with the GIRLS GONE WILD logo covering up her nakedness, sucking on her finger while looking directly at the camera. Knowing that everyone knows what his little girl has done. God that breaks my heart.
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quote:But I don't know why pornography is legal. It should be outlawed.
I have to say, I find this statement more offensive than anything Miss USA ever did.
Why? You a big fan of exploitation?
It's not exploitation. I find it offensive that you think you know what's best for everybody, and not only do you know what's best, you want to force everyone to conform to your knowledge.
I find it offensive that you stick your nose into into business that is no concern of yours, and isn't hurting anyone, least of all you.
I'm going to have to agree with this.
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posted
You agree huh? Hope you never see your daughter one day masturbating on camera on an infomercial. Hell, at the way things are progressing, it will be hardcore sex right there on boradcast TV. But I'm the bad guy for despising it.
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posted
Personally, I think that pornograpy is a scourge on our society, and is causing immense harm. I wish I could snap my fingers and make it all dissapear.
Even so, I think it's a bad idea to make it illegal.
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