FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » iPhone (Page 2)

  This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   
Author Topic: iPhone
twinky
Member
Member # 693

 - posted      Profile for twinky   Email twinky         Edit/Delete Post 
Careful -- in my experience, making so much as a conditionally positive statement about Apple will earn you the "Apple fanboy/fangirl" label from Tom. [Razz]
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Euripides
Member
Member # 9315

 - posted      Profile for Euripides   Email Euripides         Edit/Delete Post 
*befriends Zeugma*
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Altįriėl of Dorthonion
Member
Member # 6473

 - posted      Profile for Altįriėl of Dorthonion   Email Altįriėl of Dorthonion         Edit/Delete Post 
I hate iPods. I hate Macs. I hate Apple.

AND I'm an animation student.

Posts: 3389 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
twinky
Member
Member # 693

 - posted      Profile for twinky   Email twinky         Edit/Delete Post 
I have every confidence that Apple will take immediate steps to address your concerns, probably by withdrawing all of their products from the market.

[Razz]

Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kyle Katarn
Member
Member # 3567

 - posted      Profile for Kyle Katarn   Email Kyle Katarn         Edit/Delete Post 
O RLY?

They can close the Apple store next, you can fit 3 stores in the space they use to show off a bunch of tiny little devices. [Wink]

Posts: 85 | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wonder Dog
Member
Member # 5691

 - posted      Profile for Wonder Dog           Edit/Delete Post 
Very interesting article here:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2081108,00.asp

The gist of it is that we won't see the iPhone make a big impact until a)they sell it unlocked, like most smartphone manufacturers are starting to do, and b)show it running enterprise-level mail apps. Until then, it'll be a cool-but-expensive consumer toy.

But it's a good start.

Posts: 353 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
[qb] Blackberrys and PDAs these days have GPS trackers and the like on them?


Plain cell phones now have that, man.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged
Member
Member # 7476

 - posted      Profile for Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged   Email Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged         Edit/Delete Post 
I was wondering how Apple called it the iPhone when Cisco owns the trademark ( and before anyone says anything trademark is from 2000). Well Cisco Sues Apple.
Posts: 796 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vadon
Member
Member # 4561

 - posted      Profile for Vadon           Edit/Delete Post 
Am I the only one who not only isn't excited about this, but am disappointed with what Apple made?
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
[qb] Blackberrys and PDAs these days have GPS trackers and the like on them?


Plain cell phones now have that, man.
One's that give you street to street directions and tell you when to turn etc. etc. like that "Tom Tom" device I'm always seeing on tv? I know all phones have GPS on them, mine does, I think just so 911 can always tell where I am, and maybe so the FBI can spy on me. Anyway, I was referring to more than just being able to pinpoint someone.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Euripides
Member
Member # 9315

 - posted      Profile for Euripides   Email Euripides         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged:

I was wondering how Apple called it the iPhone when Cisco owns the trademark ( and before anyone says anything trademark is from 2000). Well Cisco Sues Apple.

I am putting my money on Apple's legal team.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
Eh, I don't know. The best legal team in the world can't out and out win when you're fighting a losing battle like that. Cisco has the trademark, and Apple is using it illegally. Apple doesn't have any sort of rights to i____ fill in the blank ad infinitum.

Forget Apple's legal team, I think they'll lose, but it won't matter. Long before Apple changes the name, or the legal decision is made, they'll settle out of court.

Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dantesparadigm
Member
Member # 8756

 - posted      Profile for dantesparadigm           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by twinky:
Careful -- in my experience, making so much as a conditionally positive statement about Apple will earn you the "Apple fanboy/fangirl" label from Tom. [Razz]

I'll wear that moniker proudly.

I've never owned a mobile phone in my life, but I'll be getting this as soon as it comes out. The 8 gig model. I was literally giddy when I was watching the keynote.

Posts: 959 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Icarus
Member
Member # 3162

 - posted      Profile for Icarus   Email Icarus         Edit/Delete Post 
*shrug*

I've got a PDA phone that does almost everything that phone does. I've had it for more than two years, and it cost quite a bit less. I also like a UI that is essentially the same as the one I use on my PC.

(And I hate the "service" I get from Cingular.)

I just don't get all the salivating.

Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TheGrimace
Member
Member # 9178

 - posted      Profile for TheGrimace   Email TheGrimace         Edit/Delete Post 
the thing about the copyright is that even though apple doesn't necessarily own the actual copyrights, they have so much popular bacground with the i<insert product here> branding that many people are going to be calling them iphones even if they change the name and even if Apple never officially used the term. it would still be the whole "apple has a cellphone now, it's called ... something, you know the iphone or whatever..." conversation.

As for the product itself, I agree that my first blush was that it's not that much different from a blackberry (albeit with more media capabilities). Yes the interface is much different, which is important and rather revolutionary, and would potentially be enough to get me to buy one down the road, but the technology isn't anything out of this world. My main complaints looking at the initial technical specs are as follows:

1) storage capacity (as already mentioned) sure 8 gig's is alright to store a decent amount of music, but as soon as you start throwing movies/tv shows on there you are going to run out fast (especially if you have other files taking up space as well).
2) battery life. this is critical. 5 hours battery life when you're using it doesn't seem reasonable. If my phone can't at least be on and take a few calls for approximately 24 hours or more it's going to be near-worthless for me (and assuming I can get by through just constantly recharging it while I can one can only presume that the battery will wear down that much quicker because of more cycling)
3) camera quality. maybe 2 megapixels is enough to take decent-ish pictures, but considering how much it costs I'd expect to take photo-quality pictures. My current gripe about most camera-phones is that the pictures are poor enough that I can't do anything with them outside of showing them in tiny tiny format on my phone. (that being said maybe my understanding of the camera capabilities/expectations is way off, so I'll leave this as a distant third behind the first 2)

/edit
also, just to make sure, the phone has built-in GPS capabilities? some of the talk and demos seemed to infer that, but I never saw a clear statement about it. maybe it's in the talks that I haven't had a chance to listen to yet.
/edit

Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Euripides
Member
Member # 9315

 - posted      Profile for Euripides   Email Euripides         Edit/Delete Post 
Let's face it. Cisco isn't going to be able to use the iPhone name anymore. Apple's branding identity is too strong.

And it's not clear that Apple is completely in the wrong. Do we know how far the deal with Cisco went? Both sides knew that the iPhone had to be unveiled at Macworld. I wouldn't be surprised if Cisco was just milking the situation for all the money it was worth.

But in the absence of written permission from Cisco allowing Apple to use the trademark, yes, it was illegal.

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, Cisco WILL be able to use the iPhone name, Apple certainly can't stop them. What remains to be seen is whether or not it's worth it for them. And Eurip, Cisco bought the company that had the trademark on iPhone, and they've held it since 2000. So no dice.

Grim -

I was thinking about the camera too, but really, aren't you expecting too much out of it? I paid $350 for my 5.1 MP camera. The standard for laymens seems to be creeping up to 7MP now. Two MP is actually pretty good, but there's a dozen other factors involved that make an actual CAMERA much better with 2MP than a cameraPHONE.

Besides, the first digital camera I had was 2.1MP, and the quality of the images for 4x7 and 3x5 was quite good. The rest is up to a host of other technical issues that have little to do with how many megapixels the image will have.

I don't think they can get the storage capacity much past 8GB without installing an actual harddrive on the thing (I'm assuming it uses flash memory for storage).

The battery on my Sansa MP3 player lasts more than 12 hours, and the battery on my cell phone lasts for several days. I agree they need to drastically improve the battery on this thing before I'll consider getting one. It has to last me a whole day without a recharging, assuming constant use.

Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:

I'm curious, though, Tom, I remember you in particular having exactly the same reaction to the iPod when it was first introduced... nothing special, just a redesign on cheaper technology that had already been around for years. Has your opinion changed since then?

Not remotely. iTunes is still unbearably crippled, the click wheel is a terrible interface for all but volume control, and the iPod itself is overpriced for what it offers. It's popular, but that's largely due to the "pretty case" and lots and lots of groupthink. The actual user interface is genius only in the way it limits the user's ability to recognize that they might want to do more with the device, and thus don't miss out on the options that, ostensibly in the name of simplicity, have been left out.

My existing PocketPC does everything this phone does (and more), came out two years ago, and was over two hundred dollars cheaper then (not counting the memory; buying another 4GB of flash memory brings us to parity on that score, with the added flexibility of being able to swap out memory cards as needed). It's not as slick, but neither is it as crippled.

EXCEPT that my wireless carrier chooses to cripple the ways in which I can use my PPC as a phone, and vice versa, so that they can maximize their profits. If Apple can talk Cingular into creating a plan that allows unlimited data usage, connects to an Exchange server for email downloads, and DOESN'T rip out half the features the phone could otherwise offer -- all for under $50 a month -- that would be a powerful argument for switching. Until then, I'll just remain jealous of Japan.

See, when I'm talking about the superiority of Asian and European dataphones, I'm not talking about the design; we can get most of their designs here. I'm talking about the plans, the pricing and the features permitted. If Apple can talk Cingular into offering a European-style plan, that will be a revolutionary thing for this country and a clear broadside aimed at the rest of the wireless industry -- which has otherwise been enjoying its cushy profits.

Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Euripides
Member
Member # 9315

 - posted      Profile for Euripides   Email Euripides         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:

Well, Cisco WILL be able to use the iPhone name, Apple certainly can't stop them. What remains to be seen is whether or not it's worth it for them. And Eurip, Cisco bought the company that had the trademark on iPhone, and they've held it since 2000. So no dice.

Sure, I was speaking in terms of practicality for Cisco. If they bring out a product with the name 'iPhone', their customers' first thoughts are going to be 'Apple'.

As for the legality of it, yes, as I've said unless Apple can produce a written document in which Cisco grants them permission to use it, it was illegal.

I think Cisco will get lots of money out of this. My guess is that Apple will still be using the name 'iPhone' a year from now.

Tom, what's crippled about iTunes or the iPod (other than the clickwheel)? What else do you want them to do?

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
They ALREADY have a product out with the name iPhone, it just doesn't have the same recognition or get the free publicity that Apple gets with every new gadget.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Euripides
Member
Member # 9315

 - posted      Profile for Euripides   Email Euripides         Edit/Delete Post 
I stand corrected, though I still think their branding will be overpowered.

You know, I'm not trying to justify Apple's trademark infringement here...

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Euripides
Member
Member # 9315

 - posted      Profile for Euripides   Email Euripides         Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder if Apple will make the iPhone G3 before it comes to Australia. That's my only real worry.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Troubadour
Member
Member # 83

 - posted      Profile for Troubadour   Email Troubadour         Edit/Delete Post 
Well 3G is extremely well embedded here, so it's at least a possibility.

Depends on the exclusive carrier tho.

My two guesses are Vodafone or Telstra. Vodafone has a progressive track record, great 3G coverage and could do the iPhone justice.

Telstra have their new proprietary wireless network and a bucketload of clout.

Optus is too stogdy, Virgin Mobile is now *owned* by Optus (I heard, could be wrong) and 3 have their own branding they won't want to dilute.

So - I reckon Telstra's the likely choice, but we might get lucky and Vodafone might get it.

Posts: 2245 | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orincoro
Member
Member # 8854

 - posted      Profile for Orincoro   Email Orincoro         Edit/Delete Post 
Just to bring back the little Apple politics debate, I just wanna say two things (2).

1. I love Apple products, generally, but I hate their marketing. I hate getting the feeling that computers are for idiots, or that simple people need to compute too. This stuff worked for them when there were alot of people who thought email was going to be a fad and was scary, but that's over. The reputation and the snarky comments about drinking the apple juice will remain for a long time- certainly as long as Apple keeps treating people like idiots. "The Genius Bar" was a BAD idea, as are most of the add campaigns, short sighted attempts to grab attention in the moment, that will haunt apple for years and years. I just like the products- not because I'm stupid, not because I'm too slow to do the work of owning a "real computer" and not because it looks nice, but because I genuinely like it- the whole package appeals to me.

2. Apple doesn't invent anything, and I'm tired of Apple and Apple fans implying or doing everything possible to give the impression that they invent things that are not even new. This is a perfect example- in 5 years Apple will be called, by some people, the pioneer in the multimedia pda department. Forget that Sony has been doing it with the PS3, the Blackberry has been out for years, the PDA has been out for over a decade, and nothing is technically "BRAND NEW" in the iphone. Yeah, the presentation is a cut above, and the thing is sure to be interesting and good and probably innovative, but it's not a pioneer- Apple doesn't EVER take risks on these products- everything they make is simply an improved and better looking device than the market has yet provided us. I own an ipod, but I'll never claim that the personal mp3 player was an apple invention- heck, I remember the days when I owned an imac that didn't have a program for playing mp3s.

Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Euripides
Member
Member # 9315

 - posted      Profile for Euripides   Email Euripides         Edit/Delete Post 
Troubadour: Let's hope. [Smile]
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Euripides
Member
Member # 9315

 - posted      Profile for Euripides   Email Euripides         Edit/Delete Post 
I've never felt like Apple marketing campaigns assumed I was a simpleton; only that I prefer things simple. The majority of Apple's competition overcomplicates life (i.e. add extra work, which is not necessary) through bad design.

Being able to use conterintuitive software isn't a sign of intelligence. Patience, maybe.

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
1. I love Apple products, generally, but I hate their marketing. I hate getting the feeling that computers are for idiots, or that simple people need to compute too. This stuff worked for them when there were alot of people who thought email was going to be a fad and was scary, but that's over.
You could not be more wrong. In all likelihood, it will never be over.

Just today, I took a phone call from a customer asking about our popcorn machine products and whether it was okay to pay by check. I tried to explain to her that we have mail-in payment instructions on the website (reachable from any page of the website with two clicks), and she couldn't do it, so I asked her if I could e-mail her the information (the return instructions are very specific, and making the customer read them in writing prior to returning a product ensures we are not liable if they screw up).

She had no clue what her e-mail address was, and no clue how to find out.

I took another call today for a department I don't normally work with because the morning rep was caught in traffic. I didn't know all the answers to her questions, so I told her to e-mail info at gadgetshack.com and a representative would get back to her. She was silent a moment, then said "Well, I don't know how to do that, so I'll call back later."

Apple's marketing isn't saying "We make products for stupid people," it's saying "we make products for people who like things simple and easy." Two of my coworkers - the ones whose offices are closest to mine - use internet explorer as their primary browser and won't use Firefox. They've both tried it, but didn't like it, and I couldn't understand why. Their reasoning was:
  • IE comes with Windows, so they don't have to bother downloading anything else. Also, because it comes with Windows, it must work better with Windows.
  • IE has more features and tools.
  • More people use IE, so it must be better.
Now, in and of itself, this seems more like disinformation than a desire for simplicity, but:
  • I explained to them that Firefox is extremely customizable through the built-in features and especially through add-ons, and they rolled their eyes at me and said, "Yeah, but that's so much work" and "That's so complicated."
  • I explained that IE doesn't follow W3C guidelines for code and is a very broken browser, and they said "All the pages I look at work just fine." I tried to explain that this is because major websites take great pains to use bloated, outdated code so their pages display properly in IE, and they said, "Then what's the problem?"
Neither of them is particularly interested in the iPhone, or in Apple products, generally speaking.

To re-emphasize what Euripides just said:
quote:
I've never felt like Apple marketing campaigns assumed I was a simpleton; only that I prefer things simple. The majority of Apple's competition overcomplicates life (i.e. add extra work, which is not necessary) through bad design.

Being able to use conterintuitive software isn't a sign of intelligence.


Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
El JT de Spang
Member
Member # 7742

 - posted      Profile for El JT de Spang   Email El JT de Spang         Edit/Delete Post 
Also, to add to eros's point about the general public and technology, I present a Christmas story about my mother (who's a college grad and a pretty sharp lady):

I compiled everyone in my immediate family's Christmas list into an excel spreadsheet. That way everyone would have a copy of what everyone was asking for. The things on mine and my brother's list that I didn't think my parents would be familiar with I linked to amazon.com or wherever it was being sold online, the thought being they could just click on the stuff they weren't sure about and see a picture, description, and price for it.

My mom got the spreadsheet in an email, opened it up, and printed it right out without reading it.

Two hours later I got a phone call asking about 4 things on my list -- what they were and where she could find them.

When I explained to her that the spreadsheet linked to the actual products she said that she didn't know what a hyperlink was, or that she was supposed to click on them.

This is a woman who emails daily, buys online, and downloads pictures onto her laptop but who had no idea that blue, underlined text was clickable. [Dont Know]

People don't know, and that's not a problem I see going away anytime soon.

Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
Right. And so if you want a product that does less but does it in a prettier way, Apple has historically been your go-to brand.

That's starting to change. I hope it changes, because Linux isn't stepping up to be the Microsoft competitor I'd like it to be. But the iPhone is just another example of something that's not remotely revolutionary being presented as Apple's "next big thing." It's only a "big thing" if you've been living under a rock for a decade.

Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Right. And so if you want a product that does less but does it in a prettier way, Apple has historically been your go-to brand.

That's starting to change. I hope it changes, because Linux isn't stepping up to be the Microsoft competitor I'd like it to be. But the iPhone is just another example of something that's not remotely revolutionary being presented as Apple's "next big thing." It's only a "big thing" if you've been living under a rock for a decade.

It's only not a "big thing" if you think mass appeal, a Mac OS on a handheld, multiple-point touchscreen technology, the revolutionary voicemail UI, etc. in a single unit that costs less than $900 is not a "big thing."

Apple doesn't just do things in a prettier way. They do things in a dumbed down, easily accessible way. That's why Linux has more or less reached maximum penetration: IT folk and tech geeks swear by it, but it's still far too difficult and nebulous to use for your average joe.

And that's the way it should be. One of my old roommates had a dad who forced his whole family to use Linux when it was still a relatively new thing, and refused to let them use Windows, ever. Their lives were hell, because they were not (and incapable of becoming) computer savvy enough to diagnose and repair their own Linux problems, and there is zero official support for the platform. The average user simply doesn't have the time or technical know-how to search knowledge base forums and read books on how to use Linux; when a simple problem occurs like a virtual drive becoming unmounted, they want a quick and easy fix.

If major manufacturers began preinstalling Linux on their home models, things might change. But no manufacturer is stupid enough to try.

Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fugu13
Member
Member # 2859

 - posted      Profile for fugu13   Email fugu13         Edit/Delete Post 
eros: there's not too much point in arguing, Tom doesn't generally believe in usability (amusing as that is given his experience as a system administrator), and he definitely doesn't believe in most of the design principles that lead to usable software.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
twinky
Member
Member # 693

 - posted      Profile for twinky   Email twinky         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by erosomniac:
...a Mac OS on a handheld...

It's interesting, actually -- during the keynote, at least, Steve Jobs described the OS on the iPhone exclusively as "OS X," not "Mac OS X."

It isn't yet clear how "stripped-down" this mobile version of OS X actually is.

Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by twinky:
quote:
Originally posted by erosomniac:
...a Mac OS on a handheld...

It's interesting, actually -- during the keynote, at least, Steve Jobs described the OS on the iPhone exclusively as "OS X," not "Mac OS X."

It isn't yet clear how "stripped-down" this mobile version of OS X actually is.

It will be interesting. All my comment meant, though, was that the OS on the unit was Mac OS based as opposed to Palm or Windows based.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wonder Dog
Member
Member # 5691

 - posted      Profile for Wonder Dog           Edit/Delete Post 
<rant>

So, since I'm not a huge fan of Apple products, I must hate intelligently designed software? 'Cos, you know, Apple's the best. And the fact that I run a PC must mean I like broken and stupid software/hardware, too.

^^^
||| This is how Apple advertises, complete with smarmy-twenty-something-hipster. How am I not supposed to feel like an idiot?

Further example:

Intel processors never did anything useful in a PC anyway - it took the Mac to really free them!

^^^
||| It may look good to the ad firm and Apple fanboys, but it's insulting to a lot of IT people.

Not that I hate Apple. I think they're very, very good at marketing. And some of thier products are innovative in some ways - but I really, really, really can't stand the pompus, arrogant, and ignorant attitude that thier ads and fanboys spew.

(I wonder what Douglas Englebart thinks everytime someone claims that Apple invented the mouse - like Steve's most recent keynote, for example.)

</rant>

I can understand why Tom doesn't care for Apple's self-vaunting - I don't think it means he hates usability. He just doesn't like arrogant corporate advertising or thier defenders.

Edit: It should be noted that I'm obviously emotional about this, yet I intend to buy a Macbook Pro soon so I can play with Quartz Composer - yay VJing!

[ January 11, 2007, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Wonder Dog ]

Posts: 353 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
<rant>

So, since I'm not a huge fan of Apple products, I must hate intelligently designed software? 'Cos, you know, Apple's the best. And the fact that I run a PC must mean I like broken and stupid software/hardware, too.

^^^
||| This is how Apple advertises, complete with smarmy-twenty-something-hipster. How am I not supposed to feel like an idiot?

If you don't understand that people with a modicum of technical expertise aren't the target audience for Apple's advertising, then feeling like an idiot certainly seems like a foolish choice for you to be making.

quote:
It may look good to the ad firm and Apple fanboys, but it's insulting to a lot of IT people.
Again: they aren't talking to you. If I call the guy next to you ugly, why would you take it as an insult to yourself?

quote:
Not that I hate Apple. I think they're very, very good at marketing. And some of thier products are innovative in some ways - but I really, really, really can't stand the pompus, arrogant, and ignorant attitude that thier ads and fanboys spew.
That, at least, I can agree with. True fanboys irritate me, and all of the "Mac vs PC" ads make me grind my teeth. The older iPod commercials, on the other hand - wonderful.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wonder Dog
Member
Member # 5691

 - posted      Profile for Wonder Dog           Edit/Delete Post 
You're right that I'm chosing to take offense - I know I don't have to. But when I meet and work with people who seem to embody that smarmy arrogance exemplified in the Mac vs. PC commercials...

AAAAARGGH!

(These are the kind of fanboys who claim that pretty much every inovation in HCI and software design came from Apple first - Grrr!)

*breathes deeply*
Okay, I'm trying to calm down...

Edit: Oh, and I think the new Shuffle commercial is fantastic. I don't think I'll evey buy a Shuffle, though - I might swallow it by mistake. [Big Grin]

Posts: 353 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
twinky
Member
Member # 693

 - posted      Profile for twinky   Email twinky         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:
Originally posted by twinky:
quote:
Originally posted by erosomniac:
...a Mac OS on a handheld...

It's interesting, actually -- during the keynote, at least, Steve Jobs described the OS on the iPhone exclusively as "OS X," not "Mac OS X."

It isn't yet clear how "stripped-down" this mobile version of OS X actually is.

It will be interesting. All my comment meant, though, was that the OS on the unit was Mac OS based as opposed to Palm or Windows based.
Yeah, your comment just sent me off on a tangent is all. [Smile]
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fugu13
Member
Member # 2859

 - posted      Profile for fugu13   Email fugu13         Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't say he hates usability, I said he doesn't believe in it [Smile] .
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wonder Dog
Member
Member # 5691

 - posted      Profile for Wonder Dog           Edit/Delete Post 
You mean like "Usability doesn't exist! All computers are hard to use!", or "Well-designed interfaces are for sissies!" ? [Big Grin]
Posts: 353 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Scott R
Member
Member # 567

 - posted      Profile for Scott R   Email Scott R         Edit/Delete Post 
I dunno-- the price tag's a bit much for the hardware; and then you have to pay for the service on a month by month basis...

Probably not for me. When the service comes free, then come back and we'll talk.

Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I dunno-- the price tag's a bit much for the hardware; and then you have to pay for the service on a month by month basis...

Probably not for me. When the service comes free, then come back and we'll talk.

If you're going to wait on getting a cell phone (or landline phone, for that matter) until the monthly service is free...well, you're going to be awfully lonely. [Smile]
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Icarus
Member
Member # 3162

 - posted      Profile for Icarus   Email Icarus         Edit/Delete Post 
How about unlimited?
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
camus
Member
Member # 8052

 - posted      Profile for camus   Email camus         Edit/Delete Post 
I really dislike Apple's marketing. Apparently it works, but I'm usually more irritated or uninterested than I am intrigued.

I'm not sure how the click wheel is a bad interface. I have yet to come across anything else on a music player that is as simple, intuitive, and efficient. If the iPod is overpriced, then so is every other music player, because the iPod line is pretty close in price to the other leading brands.

The iPhone really does not have anything remarkable in it in regards to technology. Sure, there are some gimmicks like the different sensors, but I'm not sure that they are groundbreaking in any practical way. I personally don't like the idea of touch sensitive buttons, so this phone doesn't really appeal much to me in terms of usability.

I think the key for Apple here is the software and overall interface. It has a lot of potential but I think the intentional limitations might hold it back from achieving all that it can.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
If the iPod is overpriced, then so is every other music player, because the iPod line is pretty close in price to the other leading brands.
In searching for a 1 GB flash mp3 player for listening to audio books last year (which excludes the shuffle), I found that I could get a great one from Creative for $70, while the iPod Nano cost me $200.

If I look at the same mp3 players today, the Creative one is still $70 while the iPod is down to $150, which is still twice as expensive.

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:
If the iPod is overpriced, then so is every other music player, because the iPod line is pretty close in price to the other leading brands.
In searching for a 1 GB flash mp3 player for listening to audio books last year (which excludes the shuffle), I found that I could get a great one from Creative for $70, while the iPod Nano cost me $200.

If I look at the same mp3 players today, the Creative one is still $70 while the iPod is down to $150, which is still twice as expensive.

You're comparing dissimilar products. I'm assuming you're excluding the shuffle because it doesn't have a screen. For the same reason, in order to make a comparison to the lowest end Nano (2gb, $149), you would need to compare with a Creative 2 gb player with a color screen.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TheTick
Member
Member # 2883

 - posted      Profile for TheTick   Email TheTick         Edit/Delete Post 
In about 20 seconds of searching, the Creative Zen V player (with color screen) is $119 at their site (may be cheaper elsewhere).
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
$119 vs $149 is within the normal variance for differently branded products of the same type, and a significant difference from a comparison of $70 to $200, or even $70 to $140.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
twinky
Member
Member # 693

 - posted      Profile for twinky   Email twinky         Edit/Delete Post 
You made me curious, so I looked it up. The Zen V is twice the volume of the Nano.

Added: To be clear, I'm not saying that the Zen V is bad product, or even that the Nano is better. I'm just satisfying my own curiosity in public.

Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
You're comparing dissimilar products. I'm assuming you're excluding the shuffle because it doesn't have a screen. For the same reason, in order to make a comparison to the lowest end Nano (2gb, $149), you would need to compare with a Creative 2 gb player with a color screen.
I'm comparing two products which fulfil my needs. I don't care if it has a color screen, since a color screen doesn't help me.

I disqualified the shuffle because when listening to an audio book, I have to be able to set what order I listen to the mp3s in. The inability to do that is an absolute deal-breaker.

I was not talking about the Zen V. I was talking about the Zen Nano, which is much cheaper.

In about 20 seconds of searching, I found a 1 GB iPod Nano for $150 on Amazon.com, and I found the 1 GB Creative Zen Nano (the mp3 player which I have and love) for $66.

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Strider
Member
Member # 1807

 - posted      Profile for Strider   Email Strider         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
In searching for a 1 GB flash mp3 player for listening to audio books last year (which excludes the shuffle), I found that I could get a great one from Creative for $70, while the iPod Nano cost me $200.

If I look at the same mp3 players today, the Creative one is still $70 while the iPod is down to $150, which is still twice as expensive.

someone already mentioned that for the $150 iPod you're getting twice as much storage space.

But also, you can get a 1GB shuffle for around $110. Not quite $70, but much lower than $150.

Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2