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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Could Hatrack Rebuild Civilization? (Page 5)

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Author Topic: Could Hatrack Rebuild Civilization?
plaid
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Healthwise, I've got Chronic Fatigue, so I'd be toast in an apocalyptic struggle-to-survive situation. I figure I'd be the martyr who volunteers to get left behind in a tree with a gun to help slow down the cannibal hordes pursuing my friends.

Kind of a pity, since I know how to farm, how to breed and save vegetable seeds, and even know how to weave hammocks...

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TomDavidson
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If the cannibal hordes are at all intelligent, they'll enslave the scientists and hippies. That's what I'd do.
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The Rabbit
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Nonsense Plaid, It think your knowledge of farming and other critical life skills would make you indespensable. Even if you aren't healthy enough for hard labor, you could teach others these skills.
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Rakeesh
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Ahh. I agree, Rabbit. I misinterpreted what you meant by 'tribe'.

Edit: Community, excuse me.

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TomDavidson
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Yeah, like I said. Somebody who knows how to breed vegetables is probably worth at least twenty pigs and a chrome hubcap breastplate in Bartertown. Hammock-making seals the deal.
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plaid
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Aww, thanks Tom, but unless there's a Schwarzenegger type among jatraqueros who can throw me over one shoulder while racing up the mountains and firing at the cannibal hordes... well, I'd probably get killed off in the initial post-apocalyptic chaos.
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Scott R
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<--- Beekeeper!

I'm valuable!

AND I write light verse!

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rivka
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*puffs smoke at ScottR*
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Shigosei
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Hey, honey!
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rivka
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Yes, darling?
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maui babe
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quote:
Originally posted by vonk:
I think we should forget about rebuilding civilization. We'll all treck to the mildest subtropical climate with plenty of nearby vegetation to provide easily harvestable foodstuffs and seafood that just washes up on shore or is easy to catch. Then we'll go with the hammock idea and just sit around in our hammocks, go swimming, eat boiled clams and crab and fresh mangos and berries. As long as we keep the population under control, there would never be any need to do anything other than pick food off of the trees and the earth and walk a bit aways before dropping a load.

Who's with me?

I'm already there... and apparently all by myself.

I'll leave a tiki torch burning for you.

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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
I think rational people will realize that creating a stable community will be absolutely necessary for the survival of their families. If most people have the goal of bettering their own families and not the entire community, then we can pretty well kiss humanity good bye.
If we're depending on people acting rationally in this regard, I think we'd better pucker up right now.

quote:
Interesting thought, Stray. I'd assume that my depression would get worse during a severe crisis. I find that stress sets it off, and the situation we're describing is pretty much the mother of all stressful scenarios.
From my experiences with depression, I think that it would snap me out of a depression instead of plunging me deeper into it. I'm only speaking about the depression that I suffer.

quote:
I sorta think disaster would stimulate our will to live. Sorta like when you're feeling all suicidal and suddenly you're in a life threatening situation and instead of letting that truck hit you you swerve out of the way, heart pounding, sweat on your forhead, happy to be alive.

I also think a lot of our malaise is due to our easy lives.

I think this is pretty accurate for my depression, which I keep having to battle on and off over the years.
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Blayne Bradley
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actually the tropics are potentially even worse for long term survival, deasiease, insects, unpredictable tropcial storms etc.

This is why I advocate a Socialist Society, that way, those who are physically weak and cant do the hard labour are still entitled to a fair share of what the community produces because they contribute through other means, Beekeeping is for example a must, we need honey.

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Amanecer
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I'm not sure why that couldn't happen under a capitalist society. Beekeepers could trade their honey for food.
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mr_porteiro_head
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You don't need honey. You need bees for pollination.

A capitalist setup is not well adapted to providing for such needs.

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Blayne Bradley
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Except that shouldn't be an issue, honey is food and should be given freely for use by the community or trade with other communities, in return the beekeeper not only has the safety of being part of a community he also has an equal entitlement as everyone else to what is produced or offered by the community.

[ March 13, 2007, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]

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mr_porteiro_head
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Blayne, did you lose your spell checker? I've noticed a marked decrease in the readability of your posts.
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Samprimary
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This cowardly lot will never accomplish anything remotely resembling true civilization until they are yoked under the just hand of warrior empire.

God willing, through force and fire I plan to gather the strongest among us and get us at least to the level of feudal warlordism, chained by obsequience to blood pacts in religions I have named myself prophet of.

We will live off the spoils of the weak until we have conquered the most fertile lands for our own use. Neighboring hegemony will be pillaged, razed, and salted to keep dissident factions from becoming a threat to our existance in future years. Women shall be captured to serve as a breeder helot class alongside the Defectives. Bloodsport will placate our masses, as will faithful, totemic, costumed, fire-illuminated re-enactment of The Sid and Marty Kroft Show. Verily, H.R. Pufnstuf will be our dark god.

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Shigosei
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MPH, why don't you just share your spelling ability with him?
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Amanecer
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I vote for banishing Samprimary.
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Samprimary
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quote:
I vote for banishing Samprimary.
It is good that you express your contempt for me so openly! Pufnstuf hungers for blood sacrifice.
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Shigosei
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He doesn't seem the sort that would back down because you voted.
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Amanecer
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Samprimary: [ROFL]

Shogosei-

If the community had armed guards (which they should) and we did not believe he could garner significant support, I think banishment would be best. If we did think he'd get a lot of support, I wouldn't step in Rakeesh's way.

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Blayne Bradley
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There fixed some errors.
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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
Originally posted by Shigosei:
MPH, why don't you just share your spelling ability with him?

Huh? I don't understand what you were saying.

At one point, Blayne started using a spell checker, and the readability of his posts went way up.

He has obviously not been using a spell checker for many of his posts in this thread today, as there are many mangled or misspelled words in them, such as "inreturn" and "shouldnt" from his last post.

This has made it harder for me to read his posts.

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Lyrhawn
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I skipped most of this thread, four pages is a big to catch up on.

But I think I'd be good for several things. I could be our resident historian when I'm not doing more important things, and I'd probably jump in as part time musician and writer as well.

But there's a lot of useful things that I've read about how to do them, but never actually done them. I could probably function as a blacksmith after some trial and error. I've all about how to work iron and folding, pounding and creating steel for various things, but I have no idea how to extract iron ore, or how to make the various chemicals you need to cut with iron to burn out impurities.

But assuming all the books of the world aren't destroyed when all the people die, I'd volunteer to read up on it and become one if we really went that far back on our technology. Other than that, I don't have all that many useful skills, I know a little bit about a lot of different things, but I'd probably end up farming, though I'd want to be involved with writing the charter of our new little community. I too think we'd have too many leaders and not enough followers.

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Shigosei
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I was just trying to make a joke given all Blayne's posts on Communism.
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Samprimary
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quote:
If the community had armed guards (which they should) and we did not believe he could garner significant support, I think banishment would be best. If we did think he'd get a lot of support, I wouldn't step in Rakeesh's way.
Look, you're trying to fight fire with fire. Against my better judgement, I'll let you know how you deal with tyrant kahns such as myself. The strategies are helpful almost always!

1. Cut off my supply of furs. It is absolutely demanded of people in my position that I rule from fire-lit royal yurt from atop a decadent pile of hide-furs, what I may lean upon as I cackle, drink, and plot. Without the furs, the effect is lost, and I am emasculated in front of my very own honor guard, and I am not long for the world.

2. Point out that my time is better spent harassing Bean Counter. The post-apocalyptic scenario is perfect for this endeavor, and I'm perfectly suited for the task and would drop any lust for empire for this simple pleasure. "Oh hey," I'll say, following him around as he tries to plow a bitter share of vegetation atop the still-burning embers of our totally wrecked civilization. "I see that Bush's policies really turned out for the best, huh. Yeah, we're doing totally awesome now, huh."

3. When enslaved to build my system of Romanesque aquaducts, make sure that they are authentically lead-lined. Additionally, introduce me to the wonders of the sugar of lead. I will drink deeply of this 'modern' marvel and slowly kill off the portions of my brain that would make me an effective or long-lived ruler.

4. Toss the One Ring into the fires of Mt. Doom. An oldie but a goodie, always a lifesaver in these situations. I'll probably melt or explode, or .. something.

5. Make a valiant final stand at Thermopylae after knocking my ambassadors into the huge bottomless pits you build -- for no conceivable purpose -- in the middle of your plazas.

6. Ally with various fantasy humanoid creatures like elves, dwarves, halflings, the servants of L'loth (may be tricky), gnomes, tieflings, aasimars, and Survivor.

7. Find Mel Gibson.

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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
Originally posted by Shigosei:
I was just trying to make a joke given all Blayne's posts on Communism.

Oh. Sorry for spoiling your funny.
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rivka
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It's official. The earlier post was good, but this last one was sheer brilliance. And bonus points for including the sapa reference!

Samprimary wins the thread.

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Icarus
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Samprimary, can I have a position of power within your empire?
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vonk
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quote:
vonk Posted: But I'd be willing to bet that there's someone willing to [kill someone]. Maybe I'll be on their side.
quote:
Samprimary Posted: This cowardly lot will never accomplish anything remotely resembling true civilization until they are yoked under the just hand of warrior empire.

God willing, through force and fire I plan to gather the strongest among us and get us at least to the level of feudal warlordism, chained by obsequience to blood pacts in religions I have named myself prophet of.

We will live off the spoils of the weak until we have conquered the most fertile lands for our own use. Neighboring hegemony will be pillaged, razed, and salted to keep dissident factions from becoming a threat to our existance in future years. Women shall be captured to serve as a breeder helot class alongside the Defectives. Bloodsport will placate our masses, as will faithful, totemic, costumed, fire-illuminated re-enactment of The Sid and Marty Kroft Show. Verily, H.R. Pufnstuf will be our dark god.

I'm with this guy.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
If the community had armed guards (which they should) and we did not believe he could garner significant support, I think banishment would be best. If we did think he'd get a lot of support, I wouldn't step in Rakeesh's way.
Oh, hardly. I'd attach myself to Samp's empire early on, advising, protecting, and generally helping him but nonetheless letting him assume the lion's share of responsibility, danger, and risk.

Once things are really underway, and we've dealt with some of the more dangerous enemies, I would of course assassinate him, blame it on my rival or the most dangerous remaining enemy, and take control, thus handily avoiding the pesky high initial failure rate for small businesses and warlords.

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Launchywiggin
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Stand-up comedian.

I'm not good for much else in a pre-industrial society.

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
ketchupqueen, What if the leaders of the Church directed you to share with other people? I have heard several statements by church leaders indicating that this would happen in case of a major catastrophe. That is exactly what has happened in recent floods, Hurricanes and the like so I don't see any reason to expect we won't be asked to share with everyone if a major global catastrophe happens.

In that case I would be fine with it. I wasn't clear in my wording and I apologize; I would be okay with entering into a communal living situation if it was asked of us by Church leadership and was directed by priesthood leaders, assuming of course that I recieved a personal confirmation that it was the right thing to do. But I do NOT think I would be okay entering into an otherwise directed communal society.
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Dav
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Since there wouldn't be any computers to program again for many years, I guess I'd devote my time to learning how to farm and hunt, and making sure my glasses don't break. I'm in pretty good shape mentally and physically, so I'd have an ok chance of surviving the rough start.

If we started splitting into tribes, I'd try to join the one that seemed most likely to keep everyone in it alive and at least somewhat happy. And I would work as hard as possible to help it survive.

It would be nice though if we could somehow be a cohesive community despite everyone's differences. But that's really hard under survivalist conditions, which is one reason why I'm very fond of modern civilization.

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Blayne Bradley
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And if there was no church authority left? Cant you see that sharing and pooling resources is far better for improving the odds of survival for everyone and giving an equal chance to everyone and not just the ones able to forage and hunt better?
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Samprimary
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quote:
Once things are really underway, and we've dealt with some of the more dangerous enemies, I would of course assassinate him, blame it on my rival or the most dangerous remaining enemy, and take control, thus handily avoiding the pesky high initial failure rate for small businesses and warlords.
You will not be able to assassinate me, as I will shield myself only with people who are too distracted to bother to kill me, because they are the sort who -- immediately after civilization ends -- begin furiously arguing about whether to restart mankind as a socialist or a capitalist paradise.

I'll just tell both sides 'oh, that's a wonderful idea' and 'you make excellent points' while rolling my eyes and using the barter system.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Icarus:
Samprimary, can I have a position of power within your empire?

you will be High Chancellorite Executorial Archon. yeah, it's one of the perks of starting civilization from scratch: you name the ranks!
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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
Cant you see that sharing and pooling resources is far better for improving the odds of survival for everyone
It depends on who is in charge of the redistribution.

If some people were in charge, no, I don't think my family would be better off in their hands.

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
And if there was no church authority left?
Is every active male member of the church of sound mind over the age of 12 dead? I don't think so. I know just counting people on Hatrack we have enough for a good, strong priesthood organization.
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mr_porteiro_head
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I've got to disagree with you there, KQ. While we would certainly have priesthood authority, what priesthood keys would we have?
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ketchupqueen
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Maybe it would be given from on high. It has been before. In any case, I would think that there would be enough for quorums to act as groups and that direction would be given.

Besides, we don't really know that President Monson doesn't lurk here, do we? [Wink]

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ketchupqueen
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Also, if as stipulated before we are all living in the same area, I'd bet we'd even have a surviving bishop. Maybe even part of our stake leadership.
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mr_porteiro_head
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KQ -- see my earlier post about having an apostle lurk on HR.

There would be doctrinal difficulties with anything other than an apostle, as receiving all the keys of the priesthood from on high again would basically constitute a new dispensation, and we've been promised that this is the last dispensation.

Neither a bishop nor a stake president have all the keys of the kingdom. IIUC, Not even general authorities do -- only the apostles.

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ketchupqueen
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Oh, I know. But I was just saying that a bishop or stake president would have the keys to look after their flock, right?

And while it's true that this is the last dispensation, we also are imagining a reality where only Hatrackers and their families survive. [Wink]

(Earlier post? Missed it. Where?)

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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
Oh, I know. But I was just saying that a bishop or stake president would have the keys to look after their flock, right?
Right. But we're not that flock, now are we? A bishop doesn't get to decide who he is a bishop over.

From the very first reply in this thread:
quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:
Will the old religions of the world be represented? Changed?
Unless there's an apostle from the LDS Church lurking here somewhere, my religion would probably not be able to continue unchanged.

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ketchupqueen
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Gotcha.

But if as stipulated we all lived in one small geographic area, we would all be one flock, most probably.

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mr_porteiro_head
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Right. But with no bishop called to that flock.
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Carrie
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Wow, that was an... interesting... five pages to read.

I'd probably wind up a historian and storyteller. Is the role of epic poet still available? I can also do the household stuff and can have babies.

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