quote:I dont understand this. Child rape is outside the bounds of paedophilia? Isnt a basic definition of paedophilia sexual attraction to children?
Presumably they are saying that this form of rape doesn't involve sexual attraction. In a somewhat similar vein, and without wanting to turn this into an onanism thread, very few people are attracted to their right hands, but nevertheless.
Rape is a crime of power and domination, and is not caused by an overwhelming desire or passion for the victim. Sexual attraction has nothing to do with it - ever.
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean: What I want to know is when the forced immigrant descendants from Africa will start having a 'thank you white folk' day for bringing them here away from that world...
You mean descendants of slaves? Oh, I imagine they'll have a "Thank You White Folk" day right around the time we have a "Holy Crap, We're Sorry For Taking Away Your Best and Brightest, Leaving Your Civilization To Wallow In Chaos And Destruction More Than A Century Later And Assuming That We Couldnt Have ANYTHING To Do With Your Current Situation" day.
I think they're more likely to celebrate a "White Folk Have Finally Given Up their Interventionist, Inherently Predjudiced Against Anyone With Skin A Color Other Than White Policies" day.
Posts: 499 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Tell me foundling, how did the 'best and brightest' get captured by their fellows and sold in the first place? In the society of Africa the slaves were only kept alive because they had value as slaves, otherwise they faced death as losers in battle. It was a tough break but the decendants exist and are in a better place because it happened.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Chango says this guy's lying. At least that's how I'm interpreting these goat innards, that is.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Stop it, just stop it. You don't really know anything about African history or anything else for that matter...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean: Tell me foundling, how did the 'best and brightest' get captured by their fellows and sold in the first place? In the society of Africa the slaves were only kept alive because they had value as slaves, otherwise they faced death as losers in battle. It was a tough break but the decendants exist and are in a better place because it happened.
I'm literally laughing out loud right now. ::wipes eyes:: I dont really know where to start with refuting your "arguments", but I think my first suggestion would be for you to read a book on the subject. Most likely any book vaguely related to slavery during this time period will do. Unless, of course, it's written by an apologist or a member of the KKK. While their opinions may in fact coincide with your own, it's highly unlikely that you'll find reputable, solid information in such a book.
Posts: 499 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Guys? This is the most obvious example of stupid trolling I've seen in a long time. How about let's all just ignore it for the junk it is, and act as though Counter Bean simply hadn't said anything at all in this thread?
This discussion will be much improved, I guarantee it.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
But he keeps being so stupid... and I'm so sensitive and annoyed by that sort of thing these days. In fact, I am burned out...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Euripides: There was a psychological experiment I once read about which suggested that men typically exhibit an instinctive sexual attraction towards young (about 12 years old) children; in fact, in that study the sexual arousal exhibited towards children was greater than that exhibited towards adults (it involved showing a sample group of men slides, with equipment to detect erection). I'd imagine it would be different with infants though.
I'm not condoning paedophilic behaviour or rape in any way shape or form; just suggesting that this "instinctive aversion to sexual attraction to young children" is actually a cultural construct which exists for very good reasons.
I have a hard time conceiving that anyone could be sexually attracted to a baby. A baby is a lot different from a 12-year-old.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I can't think about it. It's too sickening, too depressing. There's a difference between not breaking mirrors or stepping on cracks and something as horrible as this.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Rape is a crime of power and domination, and is not caused by an overwhelming desire or passion for the victim. Sexual attraction has nothing to do with it - ever.
This is often stated as a truism, but I really don't believe that it's true always in every single rape which has ever happened.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I have to agree. Sexual attraction could be in addition to power and domination. Or the sexual attraction could be toward the power and domination-- I would think this would have to be true or, you know, it wouldn't work. In any case, I don't think it has NOTHING to do with rape-- just maybe not in the way one might think.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean: Tell me foundling, how did the 'best and brightest' get captured by their fellows and sold in the first place? In the society of Africa the slaves were only kept alive because they had value as slaves, otherwise they faced death as losers in battle. It was a tough break but the decendants exist and are in a better place because it happened.
I love making you sound stupid....it's not like it is hard, after all....
...but it is so much better when you do it all by yourself.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I can very easily believe that in many cases, rape is primarily about power.
But, for example, I find it hard to believe that every guy who gets a girl drunk to have sex with her does it purely out for power. I find it much easier to believe that for some of them, part of the motivation is to get laid.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Guys? This is the most obvious example of stupid trolling I've seen in a long time. How about let's all just ignore it for the junk it is, and act as though Counter Bean simply hadn't said anything at all in this thread?
This discussion will be much improved, I guarantee it.
posted
The case was stated that the slaves represented the "best and brightest" how anyone can argue that people, on their own turf caught by men completely unsuited by temperment and development to the climate and place are the 'winners' and not the losers is beyond me.
That only applies to the tiny fraction that were taken by white slavers instead of those caught by black native slavers. Same thing applies to them, the best and brightest were the ones raiding villages and selling their neighbors.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
If by best and brightest you mean morally bankrupt and inherently evil, then yes, I can see your point.
(edited for needless insults) Many, many people have made the case that it was indeed the cream of the crop that got taken into slavery right off the bat. It wasnt only the best, but the most desirable(in many ways) were taken first, for obvious reasons. Again, I'd like to suggest that you do some research on the subject.
Posts: 499 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Guys? This is the most obvious example of stupid trolling I've seen in a long time. How about let's all just ignore it for the junk it is, and act as though Counter Bean simply hadn't said anything at all in this thread?
This discussion will be much improved, I guarantee it.
quote:Rape is a crime of power and domination, and is not caused by an overwhelming desire or passion for the victim. Sexual attraction has nothing to do with it - ever.
While this is probably true of back-alley type rape, I agree with others that it certainly doesn't apply to all instances of date rape.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:If by best and brightest you mean morally bankrupt and inherently evil, then yes, I can see your point.
I mean 'winners' in the struggle for local dominance, and all men are inherently immoral. Morality is learned, however there are some sorting mechanisms in the transport system, sale mechanism and breeding processes that might create some improvements from an African 'normal' even if the initial stock came from the wrong side of the bell curve. There were also some negative pressures as well (we like em big and dumb) but while a small man can't pretend to be big, a smart one can sure learn to play dumb. (did it myself to get through boot) Also one cannot discount the advantages gained from hybridizing, it may well be that the American black sub-race of black Afican is superior on average, or was at one point, the environment in Africa is more hostile then here so it is going to take a better man of any kind to survive at this point in history.
As far as social evolution, I would place the American black culture far above what we find in Africa, except in a few local areas where it looks about the same.
It would be very interesting to study dispassionately and calculate what the genetic and social advantage gap is in material wealth, health, longevity and education from an African base line. I am sure it is considerable, all for a legacy of forced labor abandoned over a century ago.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:What I want to know is when the forced immigrant descendants from Africa will start having a 'thank you white folk' day for bringing them here away from that world...
We'll get those ungrateful bastards on that right away.
PS: Your words are painfully stupid. Like, they cause people physical pain as they squash out otherwise useful brain cells.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
And by using a variation of the "I'm rubber; you're glue" defense, he wins the hearts of schoolchildren everywhere. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I read a great book on the development of penicillin, and it was a lot more than just, "Hey, look, bread mold kills other germs!" I can look it up for you if you're interested. It was really well written.
I thought it was orange mold. No?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Hmmm... Well, I suppose we should withhold judgement on this issue until we determine if any of these people are actually cured. The article doesn't say one way or another - although you'd think it be easy to test if they still have the disease or not.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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I read a great book on the development of penicillin, and it was a lot more than just, "Hey, look, bread mold kills other germs!" I can look it up for you if you're interested. It was really well written.
I thought it was orange mold. No?
Both, actually. The particular variety of mold is extremely common, and can grow on fruit and grain products, among other things.
posted
I do not understand the intense anger that is being projected at this man.
Ill preface my response with some quick statements, 1: I doubt this treatment works 2: I doubt any of you have studied the treatment.
The article says NOTHING about the validity of the treatment. I understand the viruses cannot just be treated with medicine, at least any medicine WE have. So why not just do a quick examination of the treatment and its results? Why are we so quick to judge just because the treatment seems so simple? If it doesn't work it would EASY to show it doesn't. If it does, what does that make all of you?
Comparing this to the rumor that having sex with a virgin would cure the disease is not even remotely similar. If one of the herbs in the concoction was poisonous or dangerous then SURE do a study on it and educate people if it does not.
But don't scream and rail just because you don't like the mode of delivery for the cure. Scream and rail after the concoction has been proven worthless or worse.
At least this man acknowledges AIDS, why don't you go read up on Robert Mugabe? He calls AIDS a western created fabrication and the medicines we try to ship to the people of Zimbabwe at COST to treat it, poison designed to make us rich and kill all of them.
I just don't understand why you folks in a situation that appears mostly cut and dry are already angry and ready to condemn this man.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:So why not just do a quick examination of the treatment and its results? Why are we so quick to judge just because the treatment seems so simple?
Because, as has been pointed out multiple times, the guy has forbidden this approach. That's the evil that people are screaming about. If it does indeed work, and yet we can't get the medicine to test that, what does that make our friend?
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:So why not just do a quick examination of the treatment and its results? Why are we so quick to judge just because the treatment seems so simple?
Because, as has been pointed out multiple times, the guy has forbidden this approach. That's the evil that people are screaming about. If it does indeed work, and yet we can't get the medicine to test that, what does that make our friend?
Oh I am sorry, I somehow missed that. I agree that if he forbids testing thats pretty shady business. Wouldn't it still be pretty easy to get a hold of the concoction and test it anyway? Forensics should be able to identify every substance in it.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Comparing this to the rumor that having sex with a virgin would cure the disease is not even remotely similar. If one of the herbs in the concoction was poisonous or dangerous then SURE do a study on it and educate people if it does not.
The major problem with this "cure" is that if people think they are cured when they are not, they may continue to spread the disease (apart from the not taking their anti-retrovirals thing.) And as KoM just reiterated, it is impossible to know whether it is working because no one is allowed to find out.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Oh I am sorry, I somehow missed that. I agree that if he forbids testing thats pretty shady business. Wouldn't it still be pretty easy to get a hold of the concoction and test it anyway? Forensics should be able to identify every substance in it.
When you are being forced to leave the country if you even suggest testing it, and the patients do not appear to be in a position to cooperate in smuggling some out, I am not sure that getting ahold of it is quite that simple. If a doctor or nurse was recruited to help it might be possible, but I would say still fairly difficult, given the fear of retribution by the leader of the country.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
While I don't necessarily believe that what I am about to say is motivating this particular leader; the one with the alledged cure, it none the less has a grain of truth in it.
If this person gives up the specific information about the 'herbal cure', then he has essentually give up all rights to it. Right now the Africans can concoct it from locally grown herbs. But if the big pharmaceutical companies get a hold of it, and find a way to determine the underlying 'active' ingredient. They will then try to sell it back to Africa where it is most needed at an astronomical price.
If the can't synthasize it, then they will corner the market on all the herbs. One way or another, if outsiders are allowed to access this information, then they will find a way to control the market.
There is very little in my opinion to justify the price of current AIDS drugs beyond the fact that the pharmaceutical companies hold your life in their hands, any you will therefore pay whatever they ask to keep from dying.
Though, more realistically, it probably bogus and they aren't releasing it because they don't want to be proven wrong. Much better to live in cheap denial that to face expensive and inevitable reality.
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