posted
I believe that Shara Law requires his death, I say that we elect him and then watch the fireworks! He will have to fight the war on terror in self defense!
quote: The issue of Sen. Barack Obama’s Muslim past has surfaced again as his campaign steps back from its flat denial that he ever belonged to the Islamic faith.
Earlier this year several media outlets reported that Obama had attended a radical madrasa, or Islamic school, when he lived in Indonesia. At the time, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs declared: “To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago.”
The report about the radical madrasa turned out to be false.
Now, in a statement to the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday, Gibbs amended that declaration, saying: “Obama has never been a practicing Muslim,” the key word being “practicing.”
But a boyhood friend of Obama in Indonesia, Zulfin Adi, told the Times: “His mother often went to the church, but Barry [Barack’s name at the time] was Muslim. He went to the mosque.”
The Times sent a reporter to Jakarta, capital of the Muslim nation, to delve into an issue that could have a serious impact on the Democratic presidential candidate’s White House aspiration, as voters “react to a candidate with an early exposure to Islam, a religion that remains foreign to many Americans,” the Times noted.
Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama Sr., a Kenyan, and Kansas-born Ann Dunham. The couple separated when Barack was 2. They later divorced, and Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, a Muslim. In 1967, the family moved to Jakarta, where Obama was known as Barry Soetoro, and he remained there from age 6 to 10.
Obama attended first grade at a Catholic elementary school near his home, St. Francis of Assisi Foundation School, which accepted students of any religion.
His first-grade teacher Israella Dharmawan told the Times: “At that time, Barry was also praying in a Catholic way, but Barry was Muslim. He was registered as a Muslim because his father was Muslim.”
In the third grade, Obama transferred to a public school, where he was also registered as a Muslim.
Muslim students at the school attended weekly religion lessons about Islam, taught by a Muslim.
In his autobiography, “Dreams From My Father,” Obama mentions studying the Quran and describes the public school as “a Muslim school.”
Boyhood friend Adi said Obama occasionally went to Friday prayers at a local mosque.
“We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque,” he told the Times.
Sometimes, when the call to prayer sounded, Barry and Lolo would walk to the mosque together, Adi added.
Obama’s half-sister Maya Soetoro, in a statement issued Wednesday by the Obama campaign, said the family attended the mosque only for “big communal events.”
New revelations about Obama’s Muslim past could provide ammunition for his critics — and political opponents.
One such critic is Chicago-based Internet journalist and broadcaster Andy Martin, a lawyer and consumer advocate who wrote earlier about Obama’s connection to Islam.
Reacting to the claim from Obama’s sister that the family went to the mosque only for “big communal events,” Martin wrote on Thursday: “Tens of millions of ‘Christians’ flock to churches for Easter and Christmas. And they would slap you down if you told them they were not Christians merely because they only appear twice a year for ‘big communal events.’”
He also wrote: “Obama no longer denies he was a Muslim. Now he says he wasn’t a ‘practicing’ Muslim.
quote: Reacting to the claim from Obama’s sister that the family went to the mosque only for “big communal events,” Martin wrote on Thursday: “Tens of millions of ‘Christians’ flock to churches for Easter and Christmas. And they would slap you down if you told them they were not Christians merely because they only appear twice a year for ‘big communal events.’”
Oh, Lord. So this attack vector is "Obama is more honest about his faith than most American Christians, and thus can't be trusted?" I suppose that if they're grasping at straws this desperately, he's a better candidate than I thought.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:New revelations about Obama’s Muslim past could provide ammunition for his critics — and political opponents.
See, there are no new revelations in any of that. Obama's said it all himself. Clearly there's nothing wrong with being Muslim, but I think it's blatantly false to say Obama was ever Muslim. If you were to say he was atheist (prior to his Christian conversion), I think there'd be a lot more truth.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Obama is a sleeper agent. If you vote for him, the terrorists win. Really, they do win, he's a terrorist.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
A Christian who has not had a chance to hear the word is not under a death sentence, you are supposed to get a chance to come into the loving light of Allah... However one that has turned away, especially to fit in a Christian society is under a sentence of death, the Apostate King of the great Satan! I like it...
As has been said by many Muslim commentators, the billion five Muslims that just want to live in peace really are not politically significant the two hundred million that believe in Jihad are all that matters, together they are the greatest threat we face in our time, I just see this as a great way for all of them to come together in unity of purpose so we can have this war now instead of when I am a Grandfather.
posted
Hey, that's a great idea! I can see the slogan now: "Bigots for Obama: When Arabs Assassinate Him, We'll Finally Have an Excuse to Nuke Mecca!"
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
I attended Mennonite Brethren chapel when I attended a university run by the denomination, sang the songs, bowed my head during prayer, and said amen at the end of the prayer because everyone else did. Doesn't make me a Mennonite.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:the two hundred million that believe in Jihad are all that matters, together they are the greatest threat we face in our time
You're right. I think that the odds of my dying to an offensive Jihadist act have recently inched up to approximately a two millionth of the chances of me dying in a car crash. Someday they may even rival -- or, I daresay, match -- the odds that I die to a lightning strike.
We simply cannot ignore threats as potent as this. We must live in obsequient fear and start wars against an entire religion.
TUNE IN NEXT TIME FOR "MARTIAL LAW: THE ONLY REAL SOLUTION TO SHARK ATTACKS"
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Who wants to nuke Mecca? They can still pray toward a crater. I hope we can find a more surgical way to separate the politically enthusiastic from the more apathetic folk. I am not sure the death of even a leftist President would inspire our Democrats to tool up to fight a serious war. To fight a general war against militant Islam on all fronts we would need a draft, fuel rationing, interment camps, a militarized border. I just do not see anything less then us losing a city kicking that into gear.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, man, get on it and nuke Dallas already! It's people like you that're losing the war in Iraq!
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
To fight a general war against militant Islam we need a unilateral agreement among every nation we can hook up with to seek out terrorist activity in their borders. We need an agreement that activity targeting civilians will not be tolerated and will be rooted out wherever it happens, because it is not focused in any one city or any one country. Or at least it wasn't before.
You know, that kind of thing would have been a good thing to do, say, right after Afghanistan. Remember? When we had the world on our side? When there was enough shared horror at the actions of a few evil-minded people that we could have forged a powerful world-wide movement against such tactics? Even people who disagree with everything else we think, don't want their children to die.
That would have been a good thing to do, back when other countries still trusted us, still grieved with us. You don't fight cockroaches by leveling the building. The way to fight cockroaches is to clean up the place and not give them anywhere to hide.
But even stupider, ever more moronic than what has happened so far would be to piss off the rest of the Moslem world that isn't currently fighting us. They may not be speaking out against their militant coreligionists as much as I'd like, but they're not rising up against us, either. Not until we crater Mecca, anyway.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Its people like you who think winning every move we make is losing.
You see suicide attacks and think we cannot win, I see them and know the truth, they are a mark of desperation, the nuclear warheads in their arsenal. I see them and I laugh because I know what it costs the enemy to use them and all they are accomplishing is turning the Iraqi's into active participants in our endeavors and creating a thin thread of hope in the form of the weak willed among us who would not hold firm regardless.
The protest this weekend brought out the best in America, our veterans took up a line at the monuments and memorials to protect them from protesters this time, since the DC police will not secure them.
Of course you know what you are saying is not true, you think I am being deliberately provocative and you think you are matching me stroke for stroke.
However, in my thread I will do the provoking, have an opinion that is firm on a subject that matters and I will visit it on your thread.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:You see suicide attacks and think we cannot win
Well, no. I actually think our ends can be achieved in a variety of ways. I think the hardest and costliest way to achieve our goals for the region is to do what we're doing: subjugate them without admitting that this is what we're trying to do.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote: But even stupider, ever more moronic than what has happened so far would be to piss off the rest of the Moslem world that isn't currently fighting us.
Ironically from an operational point of view it would be easier to handle a general uprising. We have the machinery for wholesale slaugher in the bullpen when it becomes acceptable.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bean, I do not believe we should pull out. I think the current strategy of more troops, securing areas and expanding them, is a good one. I do not know if it will work, because I thought it was a good idea four years ago when it was first suggested (by the same guy who's leading it now, if I'm not mistaken) but things have changed since then; there wasn't a civil war then, we hadn't yet realized the guy we had primed to take over for us was actually a self-serving crook, our troops weren't worn out from being redeployed again and again, and there wasn't as much public opinion against us. But I'm hopeful.
However, I think if the whole thing hadn't been botched from the beginning, it wouldn't have been necessary. There may have been a time to bring down Saddam, but it was not then. That was the time to use the world's reaction to our losses to build a powerful coalition against the use of terror tactics, anywhere. It was not the time to squander that goodwill in a pointless and mismanaged campaign run by self-centered fools who knew how to throw enough weaponry around to win the first battle but had no idea how to win the war that followed. We're there now, and what has happened happened, and we have to deal with what is instead of what should have been, and so I believe we have a duty to leave the place in good shape before we think about leaving.
I just wish we hadn't made the mistake in the first place.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:I think the hardest and costliest way to achieve our goals for the region is to do what we're doing: subjugate them without admitting that this is what we're trying to do.
posted
It is costly, but it is also the plan that is the most ambitious. That is why I am sure that Bush is a real man of faith. He believes in Democracy and he believes in the Iraqi's far more then I. I would have run it more like post war Japan with a military authority. But I am not a believer in people.
We must consider long term goals of the operation as well as the dollars when we amortize the logistical costs. My way might have worked better, but I am not sure it would have created better people. I tend to think of Iraqis as moral children and so I am impatient with them, more concerned with playground control then teaching. Control is easy to impose, self control takes time to teach.
I am all for putting radio monitors on every one of them and issuing cards to replace all money, ID and credit and debit. Creating bank accounts for every citizen and tracking every transaction. But that is me, I figure run it that way for ten years and then drop the radio tracking and see what happens...make them earn their freedom, we paid for it in our blood, it belongs to us, giving it away to them cheapens it.
Of course this way they have paid for it with their own blood so maybe it evens out.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
CB: You can't possibly be a real person. Nobody honestly thinks that kind of stuff up and believes it seriously. Radio trackers, we own their freedom... Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe we could lease some of them to Saudi Arabia and Iran for temporary slavery too. Might as well earn back the money we've spent on the war, and let them do the work for it too, to pay us back.
After all, we own them right?
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe the Christian world isn't supposed to win a war against Islam. Maybe it's a signal that the end is coming. Ever read "The Last Battle" by CS Lewis? The Narnians lost the battle against the Telomarines and their god Tash. Yet in the end, Aslan prevailed and the lived on forever in Aslans country. Where Narnia, England, and the world continued on in a perfect version.
Maybe we're not supposed to win against the muslim jihadists. Maybe we're just supposed to fight?
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote: His first-grade teacher Israella Dharmawan told the Times: “At that time, Barry was also praying in a Catholic way, but Barry was Muslim. He was registered as a Muslim because his father was Muslim.”
In the third grade, Obama transferred to a public school, where he was also registered as a Muslim.
That's some of the greatest reasoning I've ever heard. He was a Muslim because they decided to call him a Muslim.
posted
Wasn't Bush an alcoholic and heavy drug user? And for that matter, AFTER elementary school, when you're actually considered responsible for your actions?
I mean, if we can get over electing a drunk crack head, you'd think we could get over something someone apparently wasn't all that enthusiastic about even when he was aged in the single digits.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
In that case, I'm only going to vote for Obama if his running mate is a chunky white bigot. That way when the Islamic terrorists put a bomb under his podium as he's preparing to address the nation, his VP can step in and put all them heretics in concentration camps.
Of course, that still leaves the problem of the Russian terrorist masterminds roaming free. But we'll deal with that in next week's episode.
OBAMA & COUNTER BEAN IN 2008!
Posts: 563 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Debate the man on his principles and ideas.
Advocating a president in hopes that he will be assassinated and trigger a war, supporting a draft and internment camps (oh yeah, because the camps for Japanese Americans did so well), adopting plans simply because they are the most ambitious and require the most faith, viewing Iraqis as moral children, implying a comparability between post-war Iraq and post-war Japan (read a book on Japan, CB), seeking totalitarian measures for policing Iraqis after 'liberating' them, encouraging an all-out war against jihadists and risking nuclear war because it's apparently going to happen eventually, and putting forth the notion of "owning" people's freedom while claiming to uphold democracy (inalienable rights); plenty of ideas there, but I don't see any principles.
Sorry Scott, if my sarcastic and deliberately tangential post was inappropriate; this is my standard response to internet trolling, if I respond at all (which is rarely). Perhaps it helps to disguise the heinousness of what CB is advocating.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Counter Bean sure made Obama look good in this thread. As I recall, I've figured out that it's his purpose.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Debate the man on his principles and ideas.
Advocating a president in hopes that he will be assassinated and trigger a war, supporting a draft, internment camps (oh yeah, because the camps for Japanese Americans did so well), adopting plans simply because they are the most ambitious and require the most faith, viewing Iraqis as moral children, implying a comparability between post-war Iraq and post-war Japan (read a book on Japan, CB), totalitarian measures for policing Iraqis after 'liberating' them, encouraging an all-out war against jihadists and risking nuclear war because it's apparently going to happen eventually, and "owning" people's freedom while claiming to uphold democracy (inalienable rights); plenty of ideas there, but I don't see any principles.
Sorry Scott, if my sarcastic and deliberately tangential post was inappropriate. Perhaps it helps to disguise the heinousness of what CB is advocating.
Pretty sure Scott was talking about Obama's principles and ideas.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, okay; sorry. It didn't seem like CB was trying to debate Obama in the first place. More like advocating using him as bait in order to create a casus belli; no doubt in an effort to attract flame posts.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:...make them earn their freedom, we paid for it in our blood, it belongs to us, giving it away to them cheapens it.
Of course, if you listen to us, freedom is an inalienable right of the individual, which no one else can truly take away, or own. So, uh, what's your point again? That we own what we can never take away?
posted
Yeah, I read Counter Bean's initial post, and the ones following it. I found them to be ludicrous.
If I'm going to critisize Obama, it's not going to be for something he believed/did when he was still proudly wearing Underoos.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
So all he has to do to make himself immune to criticism is admit that he still proudly wears underoos?
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
(We just went underwear shopping for Super-K-- this is a topic I'm currently well-informed about.)
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Freedom is a thing all men possess to some degree, but valuing freedom is a learned, shared trait. A lesson that can be forgotten. Let me rephrase, We own all the value for the freedom we have delivered, if we just give it to them that is how much they will value it.
It is why emancipation lead to such confusion and such a dark era, so few lottery winners act responsibly with their sudden wealth of possibilities.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
We're engaged in the battle to remove freedom of association, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of conscience from the Iraqis?
Wow. We are the Great Satan, after all.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:It is why emancipation lead to such confusion and such a dark era, so few lottery winners act responsibly with their sudden wealth of possibilities.
Or perhaps it had as much to do with emancipation doing nothing to protect the newly freed human beings from the hatred and violence of their neighbors.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Both my mother and mother-in-law, at different times, have stated that they don't like Obama because he's a muslim. This really bugs me, because it tells me that two completely different Christian groups are being fed this lie and are being manipulated.
I don't like manipulation. And the fact that *someone* *somewhere* is spreading the lie makes me like Obama even more.
I tried to tell them they were mistaken, but I doubt it stuck.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
