quote: sex (homosexual parents and couples are already barred from adopting from China in the existing laws) for at least two years if it's the first marriage and at least five years if there's been a divorce in either parent's history;
• a body mass index (BMI) of no more than 40 for each parent;
• no severe facial deformities for either parent;
• two parents who are between the ages of 30 and 50 (55 for special needs children);
• two parents who, at minimum, have graduated from high school;
• two parents who are free of serious physical and mental diseases and deformities;
• a requirement that parents must not be taking medication of any kind for more than two years for "severe mental disorders, such as depression, mania or anxiety neurosis";
• stable employment on the part of at least one parent, with an annual income of $10,000 per family member in the household and $80,000 in family assets.
Okay - so some of these I kinda maybe understand. But what's the deal with the "facial deformities"? Are they basically saying "our kids can't have no ugly parents" ?
What is someone has like a bad car accident in their history, which caused facial scarring or whatever -- that means they are unfit to adopt?
These regulations just seem very hurtful. I thought they were having a hard time finding good homes for these Chinese orphans.
posted
The regulations for just about anything in China are often way over the top and too specific. I myself am seriously considering adopting a child from China and Ill probably go look up Taiwan's requirements too as they may be more lax then the mainland.
I am not sure why they have the facial deformity restriction, my guess is at best its a means to make sure their children are born into healthy economically stable households, whereas people with uncorrected deformities are most likely from less privileged backgrounds, as that is usually the case in China.
quote:• a requirement that parents must not be taking medication of any kind for more than two years for "severe mental disorders, such as depression, mania or anxiety neurosis";
This one troubled me because I am not sure if Zoloft falls into this category. Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: These regulations just seem very hurtful. I thought they were having a hard time finding good homes for these Chinese orphans.
No time to comment on the rest. However, this is out of date. There was an article on the BBC (IIRC) that said Western demand for adopting Chinese orphans exceeds the supply now. I'll take a look later.
A look at the restrictions from the article itself:
quote: Adoption officials and agency executives in the United States say that the proposed updates to Chinese law have been expected for a while and are likely to change again.
"They've been hinting at changes in the system for many years," said Chuck Johnson of the National Council for Adoption. "China has been pretty consistent. They're not prone to change the rules. Some countries would say 'effective yesterday.' China did give many, many months."
China is among the countries to regularly update and re-evaluate its adoption regulations and — in spite of all the red tape — remains among the countries most receptive to foreign adoptions, which it has allowed since the early 1990s.
"China is simply doing what any country should be doing — they're reassessing criteria to determine if a family is appropriate," said Thomas DiFilipo, president and CEO of the Joint Council on International Children's Services.
"The fact that they have gotten restrictive ... if you saw what laws we're working with in sub-Sahara Africa, China is really an open door compared to other countries."
...
Even the United States isn't sending out a lot of its children to other nations, according to DiFilipo, with only about 200 to 600 American children being adopted annually to parents out of the country — in Canada, France and Mexico, among other places.
"I wouldn't use the word 'strict' for the China system," he said. "There are certain regulations we would hope our colleagues will re-evaluate. ... But overall, we applaud what China comprehensively has been doing, promoting international adoption. They still place children internationally in spite of cultural pressure."
posted
I have to admit that I find the whole practice of raiding the Third World for their excess orphans without first adopting locally to be mildly scummy.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I doubt the orphans, or those who care about them, would feel the same. They'll just be happy the children have parents.
Posts: 544 | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote: China is a popular destination for foreign couples who want to adopt. The US approved more than 7,000 visas for children being adopted from China in 2005.
But demand has exceeded supply in recent years.
""The number of people applying for adoptions is soaring, but following the development of China's economy and society the number of abandoned and orphaned children is less and less," an official at the China Centre for Adoption Affairs (CCAA) said.
I had no idea so many Americans were adopting from China. I thought it was very expensive to do so, so that the numbers were much less. Thanks for the link.
quote:I have to admit that I find the whole practice of raiding the Third World for their excess orphans without first adopting locally to be mildly scummy.
I'd always been under the impression that getting a non-special needs infant or toddler was borderline impossible in the states.
I haven't done any research on the matter, however.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
And when you add the number of Europeans, Australians, Canadians etc who are also adopting from China, it's not surprising that they can afford to get picky.
But the facial disfigurement thing is very strange. What, do they think the kids would be scared or picked on if their parents looked different?
quote:I'd always been under the impression that getting a non-special needs infant or toddler was borderline impossible in the states.
It's not impossible, but it IS very hard. And I can certainly see the other side of it -- that by adopting a child from a poor country, you're helping more than you would be than if you adopted a child from this one. My gut feeling, though, is that "Buy American" shouldn't stop at T-shirts and automobiles, even if it means helping out a kid who's not going to give you baby photos.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:My gut feeling, though, is that "Buy American" shouldn't stop at T-shirts and automobiles, even if it means helping out a kid who's not going to give you baby photos.
I'd imagine that the motivation to get a child when they are very young has more to do with being able to shape the personality of the child then it does with wanting baby photos.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:We estimate that in China’s best-known and most prestigious orphanage, the Shanghai Children’s Welfare Institute, total mortality in the late 1980s and early 1990s was probably running as high as 90 percent; even official figures put the annual deaths-to-admissions ratio at an appalling 77.6 percent in 1991, and partial figures indicate an increase in 1992.
http://www.hrw.org/summaries/s.china961.html
US infants don't have to worry about conditions at the orphanage, because they're very much in demand, and that's why Americans adopt abroad: there just aren't enough babies in US for everyone that wants to raise them. If I were going to adopt a child I would strongly consider rescuing one from a horribly dangerous situation. I wouldn't find them to be worth any less because they weren't already US citizens.
I have friends who adopted two Vietnamese girls, and when I look at these children I never think, "What a shame you didn't leave them in Vietnam."
Posts: 544 | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
It is sick that it is vogue to have a rainbow of children for the nanny to take care of, however I see nothing wrong for our country in the practice. Out-breeding and hybridizing are long well established beneficial practices and we can assume we are looting the right-hand end of the foreign distribution. Plus it is likely that the privileged adults that result will change social stereotypes by being conspicuous.
Posts: 231 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I have to admit that I find the whole practice of raiding the Third World for their excess orphans without first adopting locally to be mildly scummy.
Why take that tone? I'm sorry, but i am a bit sensitive and angry over this issue and the constant endless fighting over it. Adopting is ultimately a personal decision. Why look down on people who adopt overseas? What's the point of it? I'm considering adopting on the future (And, no one bother me about this again, people have already made their points) and i am considering international first, but I am not ruling out adopting domestically in the future. I have decided that I do not have the maturity to deal with the special needs an older child adopted from the foster system may have, nor can I bear the pain of trying to adopt an infant from the foster system only to have them taken away. Perhaps I am being narrow, I admit it, but just because it happens to other people, doesn't mean it won't happen to me. I also do not think a domestic newborn adoptiong is right for me at this point in time. I do want to adopt from foster care in the future when I am more mature, but I do not think I want to adopt an older child until I am a lot older...
Also, I don't trust the Chinese government and their policies.
But could people just... stop looking down on other people for their decisions? They'd face the same criticism if they were to adopt from foster care too. It's really, really making me incredibly angry... Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
*blink* CB... can you speak english please.
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: [QUOTE]even if it means helping out a kid who's not going to give you baby photos.
It makes sense on a certain level, but when you think of the practical applications, it's not that simple. Infant adoption and older child adoption are horses of a different colour...
I'm not going to get into it... I'm way to angry and frustrated today...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Qaz: US infants don't have to worry about conditions at the orphanage, because they're very much in demand, and that's why Americans adopt abroad: there just aren't enough babies in US for everyone that wants to raise them. If I were going to adopt a child I would strongly consider rescuing one from a horribly dangerous situation...
Rescue? Thats a bit off. First, that article is ten years out of date. China was a much poorer country back then. However, in the last ten years its economy has been growing by double-digits per year (compounded). In addition, the one-child policy has been partially repealed. Due to these factors, as the BBC article points out, the supply of orphans is getting smaller. On the other hand, demand has been "soaring." Demand now outstrips supply.
As a result, you would no longer be "rescuing one from a horribly dangerous situation." In fact, you would just be taking one from the next Western couple in line.
Synesthesia inadvertently hits the nail on the head. For a Western couple, adopting a child from China is no longer a "rescue." It is in fact a pragmatic choice. A healthy Chinese child is easier to take care of than a special-needs American child and easier to take care of and influence than an older American child from the foster home system.
I'm not saying that international adoption is bad. In fact, on the whole across all couples, the result is laudable. However, for the individual couple, do not act like the act is a purely selfless one. There are very good pragmatic reasons for adoption from China.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I don't know. I don't feel like things have completely improved in China over the last ten years... Also, I read an article that said they hadn't repealed the one child policy and had no intention of doing so any time soon. I think there are other factors at play, such as the olympics, but that's just my opinion and my mistrust of the Chinese government. Plus, I doubt a child that has been raised in an orphanage is totally easy to care for. There are attachment issues to consider. Unless things have drastically improved in orphanges over the last ten years, (and I'm finding it impossible to find information on the conditions of orphanages in China) there is still institutionalization to consider.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
No, I'm asking people to THINK before they look down on other people for their personal decisions... Life is hard enough as it is without people making it harder for people...People should be guiding each other, not tearing each other down all the time.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
What are other countries' policies on same-sex couples adopting? I know some US states have a ban on it as well.
Posts: 2867 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:I'm asking people to THINK before they look down on other people for their personal decisions...
I think you do people a disservice by assuming that their "looking down" necessarily stems from a lack of observation.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by kojabu: What are other countries' policies on same-sex couples adopting? I know some US states have a ban on it as well.
*sigh* I'm not in the mood to argue... I'll just say something rude that I'll regret adn I'm so burnt out on arguing over the internet anyway.
Some countries allow single adoption, and your partner could adopt the child when you came home, but some of them, like Guatamala require you to sign something that says you are not gay. Also I think Vietnam allows single males to adopt, but under special circumstances, it depends, and Russia might. Not completely sure, most countries seem to only allow single women to adopt.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Pretty much, if you are are gay man... A lesbian on the other hand... I could look up other countries and see which allow males to adopt. I know some latin American ones might, and it depends on the agency.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
*nod* This tortoise ad on the bottom of the page is really making me want a tortoise or a turtle for some reason. They are so cute and I have a rabbit so it would be funny.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:I have to admit that I find the whole practice of raiding the Third World for their excess orphans without first adopting locally to be mildly scummy.
While I agree that raising older children in the U.S.'s foster system is worthy of more respect than adopting infants (due to the increased difficulty of the job), I hardly think that adopting infants is scummy. By that logic, having your own children is scummy because you could instead be adopting older children.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I'm not sure if most people understand what adopting from foster care or even adopting a baby internationally entails.
I've been reading a lot of adoption blogs lately. They are great resources, because it's people who have experienced it first hand on a daily basis. Most of the children in the system have been abused. That means they will act out. I'm suprised how common the practice of smearing *shudder* is among older children adopted from foster care who have been abused. Many of these children do not know how to trust adults, they have been let down too many times. Many of these people who wrote in blogs or on forums complained about agencies and social workers not preparing them for some of the behaviour problems that could come up. They don't always discouse the full information on the child's past so you could be dealing with a child that might torture animals or act out sexually with other kids or they might smear... It's not as if they all would do that, but there is that possibility. They talked about a honeymoon period when the child is on their best behavior. Then they will test the parents to their limits. It's not something everyone can do, and not every child can be healed from having a home, childhood trauma changes the very landscape of a child's mind. Then you have adopting from an orphanage to consider. Even if you get a child at 6 months or younger, they've already experienced more than a child that age should. Quite a few people have been disrupting their international adoptions because they weren't prepared for the attachment issues that could come up. A child adopted from those circumstances needs special care, patience. It seems to be easier to heal an infant from this than an older child, I'm not completely sure, but many of them have been abandoned by their biological parents and have been forced to lay in a crib without enough mental stimulation. it's a wonder they can survive not getting the sort of one on one care a baby needs to develop mentally and physically. If parents take a lot of effort with them (regressing them back to age 0, making sure they know they can depend on their parents, not letting other people hold the baby for several months, just the primary care givers) they can bounce back, but it's not as if adopting an infant from a third world country is a soft and easy option and if people treat it as such, they will be disapointed and frustrated in the future. Then you have adopting older children from orphanges. I don't always understand that, but I can see why there's a need for it. If I were ready to deal with the things that could come up with an older child, I'd adopt one out of foster care, but children in orphanges across the world face a very bleak future. The bottom line is, all children need homes regardless of whether or not they are American. They are children, end of story. The world will not be in a good state universally unless we take better care of children. Rather than attack people who adopt overseas instead of in foster care, you must seriously look at the American child welfare system and find ways to improve it. (At least America HAS a child welfare system, unlike Guatemala) It makes no sense for prespective adoptive parents of an infant since birth to be told that the parental rights will be terminated and that they indeed can adopt this child they've had with them for a year or longer, only to have the child end up with relatives they don't know or back in the hands of the people who abused them! This has been bothering me since I was six years old and the fact that it hasn't changed drives me insane. Something has to be done to keep these children going from one foster home to another so they never learn to attach to a caring parent figure only to have problems in the future. RAD is a real and scary thing. What kind of country or world will we have when so many children could end up suffering from something like this or inflicting suffering on other people because this is all they know? Potential parents must be trained better about the issues that could come up. Disruptions are damaging for a child that is already fragile. But, a lot of agencies are scared that if parents knew more they wouldn't want to adopt. I'm glad I've done all of this research. Perhaps it will prepare me well for the future, but it depresses me that I wouldn't be able to become a foster parent at this time, perhaps not until I am at least 45 because it's really, really not that simple to try to heal the wounds of a child who has been so hurt and disapointed in their lives, and this is what people sh ould consider before they judge. It's all about the children. The first priority should be to improve the system universally, to help kids everywhere and not to look down on and attack people for their personal choices. Do you honestly think it will be easy for them? Even an infant will push them away. How does it make sense that a child so small should have to hurt so much because whether it's China with their stupid damaging one child policy or right here in America with drugs, alcohol and abuse, it's a child that has been so hurt, so wounded that some might never recover, and then what do we do?
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
*Officially decides not to touch this issue*
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I'm rahter furious right now. The problem I'm having is, that on the internet it seems that a person has to behave like a troll in order to be noticed. This is not the only thing that has been making me furious over the last few weeks. This is an issue that needs to be addressed for the future of this world and country. I don't think nearly enough is being done. The foster care system in this country has been in need of revamping for years. I can't believe the same things that made me furious as a 6 year old are still happening. Still, I have no idea what to do, and I doubt being on the internet helps much where someone can make some vulgar stereotypical statement filled with hate and bile and generate hundreds of answers but when you've done your research, nothing... Except maybe the occasional one sentence or an attack. I give up. I need to try to make some attempt to quit the internet, or at least limit my time on it because all it's doing is stressing me out. Especially when people argue over trivial things or decide to do things like demonize unwed mothers without thinking about the consiquences for a child. I'm just so constantly enraged on every level.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I'm not sure why people believe that orphans from overseas orphanages are less likely to be special needs kids than kids from the domestic system.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Probably because they have no idea what the conditions are like in most of the places and the agencies are not always clear on what to expect. But it's like that sometimes if you were to adopt an older child from the system here according to some people on this adoption blog. They really just want people to adopt and are afraid of discouraging them with stories about kids with SID or attachment issues from not only losing their first parents through abandonment but being left in a crib alone for about 22 hours at a stretch because there's only a handful of people to take care of them. They can catch up, many of them, as long as they have patient parents and not the sort who will realize this isn't want they expected and disrupt.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:I have to admit that I find the whole practice of raiding the Third World for their excess orphans without first adopting locally to be mildly scummy.
I think this language is excessively strong and unnecessarily hurtful considering that we have people on this forum who have adopted from overseas.
I think a large factor in many families' decision to adopt overseas is the overwhelming favor given to biological parents by US courts. What perspective adoptive parent could forget the Evan Parker Scott case (the child was returned to his birth parents after 3.5 years)? I have frequented adoption forums for years and there are many, many people who have had children returned to their birth parents. I know what it's like to be separated from your child and I wouldn't wish that on anyone and I could never, ever stand to have a child taken away from me. I hardly think that people who feel the same are "scummy."
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
If one has a problem with the system write your congressman. In my case my MP.
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posted
Synesthesia, I'm sorry to see you so frustrated. This is a personal subject to me as well. Your heart's in the right place and I think just the fact that you realize all these things proves that you indeed have that maturity you spoke of earlier.
Posts: 155 | Registered: Jul 2006
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