posted
I am about to be in college and I always hear people complain about politics and the current government, so then when I ask them who they are going to vote for 90% of the time they say "I don't vote"...
That is my thought process every time. NOONE who doesn't vote should have any say at all about politics their right to complain has been ended.
Posts: 2705 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Besides, I reserve the right to complain, express my opinion, or be educated about anything, even if I don't participate directly.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:One of my economics professors worked out a proof that showed that it wasn't economically rational to vote.
Now you've got me wondering how.
Assuming your professor was only talking about national elections, I can imagine he/she would be quite right. Possibly state elections too, depending on where you live.
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I too resent when our fellow citizens do not participate in the affairs of the republic (local or national), considering it is one of the most important things we should do. Often I hear people giving the excuse that it won't make any difference. Usually it is just because they are too lazy. When the People lose faith in democracy we might as well have already lost it. To think that we, as the masses, are not the government is to admit that we are no better than slaves....and I do not keep the company of willing slaves.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I got into a huge argument with my best friend last year over voting. I asked her for months to read up on the candidates (hell, it was just a midterm, it wasn't that hard), and she kept saying she would, right up until election day, when she claimed she didn't have time and wouldn't vote.
When it came down to it, she just didn't care. She had absolutely zero interest in the political process, in being a good citizen, in voting, in any of it, and that seriously bothered me. When I tried to explain to her how I felt, she exploded and told me her voting or lack thereof had nothing to do with me or our friendship and I should back off and never mention it again. Frankly I think she overreacted, and was offended by the fact that my opinion of her was lowered by the fact that she didn't care about voting. But her being a bad citizen did, and does, matter to me, in the same sense that her smoking or drinking excessively would bother me as well, and I would say something then too, even if it wasn't strictly involved in my life.
I think it bothers me so much, because it really only requires a minimum of effort. Sure, you can spend hours and hours reading all the relevant data about the issues and form opinions and then read for hours on all the different candidates (and I think a really responsible citizen WOULD do that), but it's really just as simple and seeing what elections are going on, who is running, what they stand for, and then making a choice. I don't think it'd take more than an hour to figure all that out, but people blow their time downloading music, reading fanfic and watching TV instead, so yeah, that's galling to me, that they care THAT little about the future of their nation, and that they care so little about their role in the process and the outcome their apathy will have on their own lives.
I'm sure someone will take issue with my feelings on the matter, but that's just how I feel in my heart of hearts. I have less respect for people who choose not to vote. It's not a conscious choice, I didn't choose to not like non-voters, it's just the upwelling of disdain that magically comes from the little voter's booth in my head, and it controls my feelings on the subject.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Personally I can sort of understand people not voting because they're lazy or uninterested in politics even if I don't approve of such a stance. What I can't understand are people who think they're somehow making a statement by not voting. What kind of a statement is it if no one hears you? It seems to me by not voting and not participating they simply make it easier for people to ignore their demands.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
If you don't vote you have every right to complain.
Why?
Because whatever the political situation is...it wasn't your fault. You certainly didn't vote for it. Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Nope. Not voting is expressing the strongest approval of the way things are, however they are. eg If a neighbor walks into your house and raids the refrigerator, not saying anything about it gives the strong impression that you are giving permission for another refrigerator raid. In common law, if you (or the previous owner) allowed the public to walk on a path across (what is now) your property, then the walkers' actions created a public easement after a certain set period of time. You can't close off the path without a major legal battle; which you probably won't win unless you get a crooked judge, or you can bribe the city council. Similarly if you allow a neighbor to build a fence on your property. After a certain set period of time, you can't force them to remove it without a major legal battle. Nor can you build anything on the side of your property which is on their side of the fence.
The higher up the wealth bracket that an individual is, the more likely it is for that individual to vote. Since wealth is the result of rational economic decisions, it's a bit absurd to argue that the most economicly rational people are acting irrationally by voting.
posted
I dunno. I vote sometimes, and sometimes I don't. Usually when I don't it's because there isn't anyone I want to vote for, or anyone I think should win. In that situation, I figure, it's best to leave the decision up to the rest of the country.
I'm also a strong believer in respecting a person's private political views, even if those views are different and incomprehensible. If a person doesn't want to vote, that's no ones business but their own.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Vote early and vote often, and if the parties don't do any better next presidential year, then write in Jimmy Carter, like I have for the last 10 years.
Actually, it also makes me mad when voters don't take time to check on the local candadates. Nationally, the School Board candidate that is listed first on the ballot is elected virtually every time. The local school board will have more effect on your life (taxes and quality of life even if you don't have kids in the system) than any old national President ever could. How many of you "informed" voters can even tell me one of the names, proposed for that office, on the last ballot you filled in?
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
"The local school board will have more effect on your life (taxes and quality of life even if you don't have kids in the system) than any old national President ever could."
YEP!!! (short of martial law or nuclear war) Folks who can afford to live in an otherwise good neighborhood can often afford to send their kids to private school if their neighborhood public schools have a bad reputation.
For the cost of a private school, they can choose instead to make payments on a $100,000to$300,000 larger mortgage; or more, depending on the cost of area private schools and the number of children. With that larger mortgage, they can move to a neighborhood that has public schools with a good reputation. And they often do when their kids reach school age.
The more rapidly properties are turned over in a good neighborhood, the more discount on property values. ie The willingness to obtain a substantially larger mortgage to move out of a bad school district depresses property values. Which decreases the rate at which property appreciates in value and decreases the investment value of the property. Which in turn lowers ones credit rating: 1) causes higher interest rates on loans and thus larger payments for everything one buys on credit, 2) causes higher insurance payments, 3) creates a lower living standard, 4) and lowers the percentage of income available for savings and investment.
A school district with a bad reputation also decreases the retirement value of ones home, which means a lowered living standard upon retirement; especially considering reverse mortgages.
posted
EVERY voice has a right to be heard loud and clear even when they don't vote. It is in the law and the U.S. Constitution! To say otherwise, to me, shows an absured belief that votes matter that much.
Lets put it this way, I had never voted in my life until my mid 20s because my wife's encouragement. The reason was simple to me. My vote didn't matter. I don't mean that in the usual negative way. The electorate voted the exact way that I would have if I voted. I know there are several places where this is the case. My voice about what should or should not happen was much more important than that casting of a ballet. My views heard by the right people confirmed for them the seriousness of their tasks.
Now, if I vote and I lose then my vote counted for nothing. It would be better for me to voice my concerns in such a way that it influences people who are disposed to vote will go my way. In other words, I see voting as a group rather than an individual action. The ones who go to vote are representative of the loudest voices and not necessarily the most dedicated civilians.
I vote more as a punctuating action rather than as a duty or a voice.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I voted recently for the school board elections. I was actually fairly familiar with one pair of candidates, and I had fairly strong feelings about that particular race (and the person I voted for won, thank goodness). I think voting in local election is quite important, particularly because my vote counts for a whole lot more.
When I vote, I read the voter's pamphlet and do my best to be as informed as possible. I understand that statistically my vote probably doesn't matter all that much, particularly in larger elections. I voted for a third party candidate in the 2004 presidential elections because I didn't particularly like Kerry or Bush. (FYI, my state went for Kerry, so my actions did not affect the outcome -- Kerry didn't need my vote to win Oregon, and Bush didn't need my vote because apparently he didn't need to win Oregon at all).
I also try to stay involved by occasionally writing my senators and representative on issues I care about. I once even called my state legislator. It turns out that the local number listed on his site was not in fact a local office. I unintentionally called him at his home. Oops. He was very nice about it, though. He listened to what I had to say, then voted the other way anyway. (The bill was to require a prescription for sudafed -- I thought that putting it behind the counter was sufficient, so I didn't really want the bill to pass). Oh, well. I wonder how much trouble I'd get in for bringing it across state lines from Arizona...
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I am in an area where politically, I am in the minority by a huge amount. So, almost everytime I have voted, my candidates have not won. Heck, half the ballot is Republican running uncontested. So, I'll admit, voting isn't always on the top of my list (and I do know one of the candidates for school board- or did at election time atleast). But, if there seems to be any chance my vote will matter, I definetely make it. And I know one year even though my candidate lost, the fact that he got 30% of the vote was a huge deal. so, sometimes the number of dissenters can worry a candidate, even if it can't get rid of them
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
In the last election I voted in the primary but not in the actual election, for couple of reasons. First of all, neither of the candidates I voted for in the primary (I didn't realize there were more than two positions up for election until I turned up that day, but I hadn't even heard of all of the positions so I didn't vote for them) made it to the final election. Second, I'm an out of state college student, so I don't actually spend much time in my voting district. The third reason was that I didn't get my ballot until much later than I'd hoped, and I was really busy with school so I didn't have a chance to check up on the candidates I was unfamiliar with. I know that's something of an excuse, but my absentee ballot isn't exactly something I want to carry around with me all over the place where it might get lost or stolen, and the internet in my dorm room wasn't working properly that semester.
The board of ed was up for election the previous year, which was the first year I was old enough to vote. Unfortunately after many, many attempts, I didn't figure out how to request an absentee ballot. My town's website is horrendous. However, I was quite familiar with most of the candidates, having heard many of them talk two years prior, and I know who I would and wouldn't have voted for. I'm actually probably the most informed about my local positions and candidates, despite the fact that I don't really live there, and those are the positions most likely to get me voting (except probably the presidential elections).
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I vote when there's some chance it will change the outcome of the particular election. If my vote is meaningless, I don't bother.
I prefer to participate in the country in ways which I feel are more meaningful and where my participation makes a difference. I write letters to my representatives. I try to influence others to change their ideas about things, I write letters to corporations and newspapers and individuals who have the power to make real change.
1 million votes for something vs. 1 million and 1 votes for it makes no difference. Point out to me any single meaningful election in the history of the country where a single citizen's vote changed the outcome and I might be persuaded. I don't think my vote counts... but I know my voice does.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
There were a few congressional races in 2006 that were decided by less than 50 votes.
New Mexico in 2004 was decided by less than 500 votes, that would have changed the entire election.
Does one vote matter? Well maybe not, but if 500 people changed their mind about what did and didn't matter, the world would be a different place. It's a collective effort of individuals believing their vote makes a difference, and it does.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I said the right to be heard . . . and you have a right not to listen, even if you don't have the right to shut them up.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I have a problem with voting for the lesser of two evils. If there are no good candidates, I'm not going to vote for the least-bad one just because I should vote.
Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I can understand why some people don't vote. Most Americans are living comfortably without having to know a thing about politics or government. The right to vote just isn't that important right now. Until people start feeling the effects of an intefering or corrupt government, voting turnouts won't go up.
My mom told me she voted all the time when she was in her 20's. Now she doesn't care anymore. She told me that she realizes that "it doesn't matter who I vote for because they're all the same." So...part of me sees my mom's 50 some years of experience and trusts her, but I'll still vote--if only because I know how many people have fought and suffered for the right.
Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Artemisia Tridentata: How many of you "informed" voters can even tell me one of the names, proposed for that office, on the last ballot you filled in?
posted
Good! You have distinguished yourself. Now, did you have any idea of the motivation (goals or objectives) that person had for placing their name on that ballot?
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Yep. And I knew the (publically stated, at least) goals and motivations of most of the other candidates on the ballot for that office as well. Including the three I voted for, and the one I would have explicitly voted against, if there was an option for that.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I have heard articulated in (poorly attended) candidates night speaches: "My child has been in so much trouble the last two years, that I have to do something to make sure he graduates." "The county attorney wouldn't let my son play basketball after one measly minor-in-consumption violation. I want to stop his power grab." And my own personal favorite: "I always thought it would be funnnnn to be on the school board." All three of the above quoted candidates were successful.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
dkw, you are to be commended. And, the fact that we are still here after 230+ years shows that we do generally have an informed electorate. However, I wish we, as voters, would pay as much attention to the local issues as we do to the quadriannual national beauty contests for president. Thats where Mighty Cow's one vote is going to make a difference.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I will finally be able to vote for the next election. I will definitely vote, even though my vote means nothing.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Occasional: I said the right to be heard . . . and you have a right not to listen, even if you don't have the right to shut them up.
You don't have the right to be heard, you just have the right to say what you want.
In order for you to be heard, somebody has to listen to you. You don't have that right.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
If 538 Floida Democrats had gotten out and voted for Gore in 2000, he'd have won the state and the presidency. The vote came down to .01% of voters. It might not be the dramtic one vote you were looking for, MC, but it's a decent example.
Personally, I don't encourage my friends to go vote. They're all Democrats. Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Maybe if I had 500 votes, or 1,000 votes my going out and voting would make a difference.
Instead, I try to influence others to vote, or I try to influence the officials to do something right once they are elected.
Lots of people vote, so one vote means very little. Few people take the time and effort to speak out, so one voice means more.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I vote mostly out of principle. I don't have a whole lot of hope as a Democrat in Georgia these days, at least in the presidential elections, but I was a bit encouraged by our higher than expected showing in '04 (like 37% I think).
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
You can call it lazy, I call it smart. Maybe it makes you feel an important part of the process to think your one vote counts. Until you can show me one vote counting, I simply don't believe it. May as well throw one grain of rice off your plate and pretend you've done something to lose weight.
A thousand votes might make a difference. That's why people running for office don't just go out and vote for themselves and hope they win, they try to convince others to vote for them.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
It's a shame that the cynical people who want to see change in our government can't be bothered to vote. Seems to me that the only people who have a voice, then, are the ones who're okay with the current slate of candidates.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I think you're looking at things the wrong way. In Florida in 2000 2,909,176 voters went for Bush and 2,907,451 went for Gore, for a difference of 1,725 (the 537 is certified number after the recount, but let's just go with the pre-recount numbers for ease).
So, of the 2,909,176 voters for Bush, 1,724 were unnecessary. That means that 2,907,452 individuals' votes mattered. Meaning, if you voted for Bush in Florida in 2000, you had a 99.95% likelihood of your vote "mattering" in the sense that it helped decide the immediate presidential outcome.
To contrast that, in UT (where I voted) Bush won by a total of 512,168 vs. 201,73, meaning my vote's post-election likelihood of making a difference was only 39.39%.
If what you're looking for is a 100% guarantee that your vote wont be extraneous, there are local elections that come down to that. However, even on the national scale, particularly in places with political parity, individiual votes do have a high likelihood of making a difference.
*Caveat- Obviously all these calculations are rough estimates and don't reflect many of the subtelties of our elections. However, the point is that the only "wasted" votes are those that are extraneous to deciding a winner. The likelihood of yours being one of those can be quite small, depending on where you live.
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: I vote pretty much every time.
It doesn't bother me that other people don't vote. Most of them are ignorant, stupid or wrong anyway.
Besides, it makes my vote worth more.
So true, so true.
When I think about not voting because I hate the options or because say voting democrat in Utah is pretty ineffectual, I realize there are people voting because, "It's their civic duty and as a good republican/democrat they support the party who thinks for them." Or, "That candidate was better looking and has a better sounding name."
It's enough to make me run to the polls.
edit: Also if you think your state is tied up in a particular party I'd direct your attention towards Arizona. Previously it was a red stronghold just like all its neighbors, but its looking bluer and bluer every year. I would not be surprised if it goes to the Dems come 2008 if not by 2012.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I took a 3-week theater workshop a couple years ago. One day about two weeks in, the instructor talked to us about effort and motivation and progress. He said that when he lived in Paris they used to use balances to weigh out groceries, so if you wanted a kilo of carrots they'd put a 1-kg weight on one side of the balance and pile carrots onto the other side. Spending effort to reach a goal is putting a carrot on the balance. Unless you are near the tipping point there is no discernible effect. Even so, to reach your goal you must keep adding carrots, and realize that you are making progress even when you don't see it.
The parallels to casting votes and tipping an election should be pretty clear.
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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