posted
I am not sure why you brought this up, but it is hardly worthy of news. From what I gather, he didn't impress a lot of those in attendants. He came off as a biggot of the most lowly of kinds. It can't do much more than help Romney.
More and more I believe that McCain's run for Pres. is finished. The reason his poll numbers are still up (they continue to fall) is mere name recognition. Now why Gilliani is national poll front runner I just don't understand. He isn't special or hold to the important social stances (although he is trying to at least sound moderate on those) that Republicans hold in large numbers. As for the Thompson that isn't in the race yet? He is a contender because many undecided Repubs are grasping for straws, but his actual record is very similar to Romney in past and present policy statements.
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I read somewhere the other day that accused Romney of expecting a cadre of virgins in the next life. Now that's just sad.
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BlackB, because the official Church actually doesn't hate Muslims and often works with some Islamic governments. Therefore, because the Church holds no political postions on Islam they support Hamas. I don't know if that is the excuse he used, but it is something that I could easily hear someone say. Never mind that the Church has had a relationship with some in Israel as well, and like may Christians holds Jews in high religious respect.
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Well, sure - if you're not officially against the enemy, then you're for the enemy. If you want to be friends, you have to hate everyone they hate.
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IIRC, the Hamas accusation is linked to Mormon efforts with Islamic Relief Worldwide to help earthquake victims - an IRW operative was accused of helping Hamas, and the attempt is to tie that incident to the Mormon Church.
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Plus "Mormon" and "Muslim" are both six letter words that start with "M." How should anyone be expected to distinguish between them!?!
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Well, sure - if you're not officially against the enemy, then you're for the enemy. If you want to be friends, you have to hate everyone they hate.
You've got to be carefully taught!
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Occasional: I could have probably guessed that, I am tired this morning and didn't really commit any thought to the solution, thanks for doing my work for me. It just seemed sort of funny to have a church school in Jerusalem (dedicated to Jewish studies) but support Hamas. Though I suppose incompetance has authored stranger contradictions then that.
Dag: I think I remember that now that you mention it.
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You evil Mormons can't fool me. I read Burned, man, I know -all- the facts! *huff huff*
On my mission, one of my areas had a -very- interesting cassette called "Mormonism on Islam" in the Ward library. It made for fascinating listening.
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On a serious note- McCain's talk was utterly ridiculous, absurd, and despicable. I think that's the worst one I've heard about the LDS church. (Of course I'm not LDS- the only ones I've heard is not much in real life, but mostly from the 'rack)
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I bet McCain is a closet Mormon. That's going to cause a scandal when that comes to light! The Inquirer is going to run pictures of McCain sneaking out the back of the Temple in Salt Lake City... in a speedo.
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quote:A Florida televangelist, Bill Keller, told followers recently that a vote for Romney is a vote for Satan.
quote:ent from Providence, the mailing alleged that church members believe in multiple gods, likened its founder, Joseph Smith, to the Islamic prophet Mohammed, and raised alarm about future directives Mormons may be required to follow.
Oh. My. Stars. Future directives that Mormons may be required to follow? For the record, every one of the bolded words is objectionable in and of itself.
*sigh* People are idiots.
quote:One note sent to South Carolina voters warned of the "dark suspicions" about Mormonism, telling recipients to "trust your instincts" because "Mitt Romney has a family secret he doesn't want you to know," Salon, the online magazine, reported recently. The "secret" was the long-acknowledged fact that Romney has polygamous ancestors, Salon reported.
Oh yeah - we should definitely disqualify everyone who had is related to anyone who did anything shocking our time (never mind if it was legal at the time) any time within the past 150 years.
On the upside, the only "scandal" in Romney's life isn't even from his life.
I am not particularly fond of Romney as a candidate, but attacking him for his religion is ticking me off.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Shawshank: On a serious note- McCain's talk was utterly ridiculous, absurd, and despicable. I think that's the worst one I've heard about the LDS church. (Of course I'm not LDS- the only ones I've heard is not much in real life, but mostly from the 'rack)
"McCain's talk"? What talk? The article was about a county campaign chairman who made comments at a meeting he was attending.
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The thing is, this was much worse that the other comments of the other candidates' representatives. Yet McCain has been the only one NOT to apologize; ever. The others I can shake my head with amusement. McCain just makes me think he holds the same or hopes they will at least do damage.
As for treating women like the Taliban? Well, sure. By the same criteria, so do Catholics and Baptists.
quote:He does however feed babies to other babies.
Wouldn't this require some kind of baby processor? Unless, of course, "baby formula" is actually its own recipe!Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by ?: This is an interesting article about Senator John Mccain's county chairman Chad Workman's comments about Mormons. Romney's Religion
posted
I'm a little surprised this guy isn't off the campaign.
But, I mean, I am starting to wonder how they got hold of the top-secret members-only tithing slips that they keep in the locked drawer of the clerk's office, with "Hamas" instead of "Humanitarian Fund" on that line. I was assured my donations would remain confidential...
Oh, well. *goes to put on her burka*
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posted
Yes, to be fair he did apologize. I didn't read that until after my comments. Still, I am not a fan of McCain at all as a candidate or as a public figure. He gets too spiteful and angry too easily.
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Occasional, there is just a tad of irony in that last bit.)
Thank goodness for men like Romney who are willing to take it on the chin. If it doesn't work out for him, then at least it will (hopefully) be better for the next Mormon with a presidential bid in the US.
Religious bigotry is ugly.
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I haven't decided if I like Romney yet. His change on abortion is convenient to his new political ambitions. This doesn't mean it's not honest, but it does make me more suspicious of it than I would be if it was politically inconvenient for him to have done so.
I've only seen second-hand stuff about his changes on abortion and civil same sex marriage, mostly from detractors, so I need to dig into primary source material before the Virginia primary.
And that's on top of all the other research I need to do about all the other issues and all the other candidates.
I feel like I'm behind in political research, but we're still more than 6 months from the first primary. It's the pace of the campaign that's out of sync, not me.
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Okay, good, I didn't think my humorometer was off that much.
I did have to restrain myself to keep from telling my favorite dead baby joke, though. (When my dad got sick of elephant jokes he taught us the dead baby jokes that were popular when he was in school-- and promptly regretted it.)
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I'm a little surprised this guy isn't off the campaign.
According to the link he "discussed an article" that made the allegation that the LDS church supports Hamas. While still kind of tacky, "Did you see such-and-such in XYZ magazine" is not quite the same as "Hey, did you know that Mormons do ___."
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You know, given how popular polygamous marriage was (and in some parts, still is) across the world, it would be hard to find anyone running for president who doesn't have polygamy in their family tree. I mean, good grief - what a ridiculous "family secret" to expose.
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I'm a little surprised this guy isn't off the campaign.
According to the link he "discussed an article" that made the allegation that the LDS church supports Hamas. While still kind of tacky, "Did you see such-and-such in XYZ magazine" is not quite the same as "Hey, did you know that Mormons do ___."
quote:Workman questioned whether Mormons were Christians, discussed an article alleging that the Mormon Church helps fund Hamas, and likened the Mormons' treatment of women to the Taliban's, said participants, who requested anonymity to discuss the meeting freely.
One participant summed up Workman's argument this way: "The fundamental flaw of Mitt Romney . . . was that he was Mormon, not because he thinks this way or that way on one issue."
To me, that says he discussed the article, and then likened the treatment of women to the Taliban's, and people came away with a message that Mormon=bad president.
It's the kind of thing that many candidates would immediately want someone off the campaign for. I've seen people resign public office, lose jobs, and resign from organizations for remarks of similar quality.
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quote:Originally posted by dkw: According to the link he "discussed an article" that made the allegation that the LDS church supports Hamas. While still kind of tacky, "Did you see such-and-such in XYZ magazine" is not quite the same as "Hey, did you know that Mormons do ___."
But in the context of the other things he said, it seems likely that he brought up the article because he agreed with the message and wanted to promulgate the idea. But this is just based on my interpretation of the summary of the account of some people who were there, so I admit I could be off.
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quote:if they want to level silly attacks at eachother, I say let them!
The first issue I have with this is that McCain and Romney aren't attacking each other in these examples.
The attack seems to be entirely one-directional, and it not coming from McCain, but from those who support his campaign.
Second: The attacks are not attacks on Romney himself, but on Romney's religion. Further, the attacks are fueled by a misunderstanding (or misinterpretation) of Mormon theology. Even further, some of the attacks are on Mormons themselves-- claims that we treat women like the Taliban, or that we intentionally fund Hamas.
Third: Attack campaigns do harm to political discourse and civility in America, no matter who participates in them. Attack campaigns erect barriers to solutions, by casting the opponent in such an irrational light, that no work can be done with them.
It's not just a matter of them taking each other out-- if it is an attack campaign, it damages ALL political discourse to a degree.
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That said-- I'm not concerned that there will be an outpouring of hatred against Mormons, even if the attacks continue.
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Well I finally found a place, I am loath to link to because of its overly anti-Mormon (heck, anti-anything-but-my-brand-of-Christian) attacks, that discusses the relationship. It's a blog called "Independant Conservative" if you want to try and find it.
Basically, it says because Mormons (and others) gave to a relief agency where some of its members have questionable ties to Hamas then they are all in evil bed together. I can just hear what this person would say about Mormons because they also give to Catholic charities. What is really unnerving is he claims the only Christian thing to do is to give to Christians only. If you give to non-Christians, it should only be as part of evangilizing those heathens you are apparently helping - although its questionable that you should be helping them at all.
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Occasional, do you still believe that Mormon bigotry is worse from the left than from the right? I grant that we'd only be absolutely sure if Romney were chosen as the Republican candidate, and saw what the Democrat opponent did, but I have to think that the two incidents here (the supporter speech, and the mailing) are worse than anything the left has done thus far.
posted
Over time I have come to the conclusion they are both just as bad. The only difference is that the Left attack Mormons as a foil against all religious people. Often times there is no distinction between what the Left says and what the Right says. They often agree with each other in ways that are really suprising. So, the best that can be said is that they are equally as bigotted and questionable.
Just remember, the guy who wouldn't shake Romney's hand because he was a Mormon was on the left.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Occasional: "there is just a tad of irony in that last bit." How so?
The juxtaposition of the following:
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: The thing is, this was much worse that the other comments of the other candidates' representatives. Yet McCain has been the only one NOT to apologize; ever.
followed shortly by this:
quote:Originally posted by Occasional: Yes, to be fair he did apologize. I didn't read that until after my comments.
and, in the same post,
quote:He [McCain] gets too spiteful and angry too easily.
Whereas you had just gotten angry with McCain for something which you then had just acknowledged that he hadn't done, and that you realized this because you actually posted before you read the piece.
No biggie. Just kinda cute.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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Bokon, the disconnect you see with my past opinions is the kinds of attacks. The Right has always been very vocal anti-Mormon, but it hasn't been political. Whenever the Left has said anything it has always been political. From that perspective I still think the Left is worse; although recent examples have put a question on that premise.
For instance, the MSM has quoted right leaning people they interview, but very few actual public statements come directly from the right anti-mormons. Therefore, it comes off as more of the news making a story rather than a story actually existing. Those who have actually printed anti-mormon comments have been the left without reporter interference. Now, these right leaning comments are disturbing, but they are basically below the radar internal. I don't belief they would have the effect of going beyond the regional area they started with. With the MSM broadcasting these things as if a messanger, I wonder if they extend farther or length of time than they otherwise would have.
Now, as far as the amount of them recently uncovered that brings up an equalization. The Right is going low key, where the Left is going open and direct. The Right has also starting becoming more political rather than just religious. Like you said, time will tell.
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It just seemed sort of funny to have a church school in Jerusalem (dedicated to Jewish studies) but support Hamas. Though I suppose incompetance has authored stranger contradictions then that.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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