I took my car in to get two tires replaced and to get an oil change, and I wanted them to check out the wiper fluid dispenser because I thought the motor was broke (as fluid does not dispense and there's no sound at all from the motor).
I had budgeted about $150 for two tires and the oil change, figuring I'd do the motor too if it wasn't ridiculously expensive.
So when I called the place and was quoted $850 as my price to fix the car, I was beyond shocked. Now my car is five years old, so it was about time some of those necessary maintenance repairs would come around, and it's just barely shy of 40,000 miles, so it's time for the tires to be replaced too. But it needs new brake parts and apparently four tires, and a battery, etc, etc.
Anyway, the part that pissed me off was that I just replaced two of those tires a year ago, and the guy at the shop said all four were rotted out and were dangerous to ride on. What could possibly have ruined two perfectly good tires in a year over about 8,000 miles? I honestly don't know just by looking at a tire if it's good or not, so I can't tell if they are just trying to bilk me out of money or what, but when it comes to my car, safety is paramount, and I'm more than a little concerned about this. Regardless, I couldn't afford to have them all replaced AND do the brakes, so I just told them to replace the two that I originally asked to be replaced.
Apologies in advance that this thread is half "who knows about tires?" and half me venting without using already created vent threads.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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AFAIK, there is a tire tread wear indicator on each tire. You should be able to visually see whether or not the tires have worn out.
Regardless, 8K seems really low and if it turns out they wore out normally (without you running over acid, street-racing, or some other wacky thing) they might be covered under the manufacturer warranty.
Chain auto repair--especially tire, shock, or brake repair--places, are notorious for this. Get at least a second opinion.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ditto. If he can't point out exactly what's wrong so that you can see it, take it somewhere else.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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Don't agree to it. He's lying. I've had that happen several times. Get what you came for, ask for written specifics of what's needed, check what you can yourself, and go somewhere else.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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I went back and checked the receipt for when I bought the tires and I was a bit off on the date, it was more like 18 months ago, and I've driven 14,000 miles on them.
To be perfectly honest, he rattled off a rather long list of things that needed to be fixed and my brain sort of fried and I didn't really remember what he said. Yeah I know that was stupid, but I was rather floored at the time. Something about brake pads, and that's all I remember. The $850 price quoted included an oil change, four tires, a new battery, the brake parts, and a windshield wiper fluid dispenser motor.
The price doesn't seem horribly outlandish (though I really wouldn't know with my limited experience in paying for car repair), just outside what I have right now that I can pay, and troublesome since the tires are relatively newish. I was considering calling him back and asking him if there was a deal on four new tires as opposed to just getting two now, but I think even with a deal I probably couldn't afford it. They're charging $450 for the brakes, two tires and oil change.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Also, in my experience when they don't just tell you what you need but actually try to scare you and tell you your car is dangerous, they have been lying every single time.
Your year old tires should still have some sort of warranty from wherever you bought them.
You can go to Firestone or Goodyear and ask them to do an inspection only. Don't tell them what you suspect is wrong. Hell, go to a couple of places. It'll be between twenty and thirty dollars for the inspection. Stay away from Pep Boys.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Definitely get a second opinion! It does sound quite possible that they're not being straight with you. Try somewhere else.
Also, sign up for consumer report website. It's the best $22 a year I ever spend! I save so much from learning about what I purchase (and this includes services as well as goods) before I buy, and from choosing the right approach, either the right brand for a major appliance or the best type of business for a service. For instance, they recommend going to a shop that specialized in your particular brand, and that turned out to be a great idea for me. They diagnose correctly almost all the time, and faulty diagnosis can cost you a lot.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Buying four tires at the same time is actually not a particularly good idea. A lot of old timey mechanics will recommend you buy two at a time, and always keep the newer tires on the front. That way, you're much less likely to have a blowout on a front tire, which can easily lead to you wrecking your car.
Seriously, I wouldn't give this place any extra business.
In fact, it's not a bad idea to let someone inspect your car with the up-front understanding that they will not be performing the actual work.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I would be surprised that a regularly driven car would have tires get "rotted out". Can a new set of tires get worn beyond use in less than 8k miles? Sure (especially if they've not been kept at the right pressure or you have alignment issues and they wore unevenly). The set of tires that came on my car when I bought it were really cheap (very low tread profile) and only lasted about 10k miles before I had to replace all 4. The easiest way to check to see if sufficient tread remains is to put a penny in between the tire treads (with the top of Lincoln's head towards the tire). If you can see the top of his head (meaning you've got less than about 2 mm of tread), your tires should be replaced. You would also want to look at the sidewalls and make sure there aren't any noticeable cracks.
Certainly get a second opinion about the work that they want to do, since it's quite a bit of unexpected work. They also should tell you exactly what they're going to do. Heck, I've even had brake places show me my brakes/rotors etc. after the tear down, so I could confirm that what they wanted to do was indeed called for.
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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I flat out told them no on replacing the two newer tires, so I could have time to go back to Bell Tire and see about getting them replaced since they are newer.
I would have gone back to Bell Tire, but the last time I got the first two tires replaced, they replaced one and said the other three were fine, then I sent my car to the car dealer for some other repairs and the dealer, a friend of the family, said that one tire was on the verge of exploding and he can't believe it made it to the dealership. So I don't trust Bell Tire now, which is why I went to Firestone (where I'm at now).
I'm letting them do the brakes, because I suspect that at 5 years old, it's not unreasonable that it'd need them, and I'm stuck in a time crunch. Any repairs that need to be done need to be done before I go on a trip across the state in two weeks, and this is the only time that I have three days off work in a row where I can be without a car. But I told them no on the other stuff. I'll wait until I can either get someone else to check it or until I have more money.
Edit to add: I only got a paper estimate for the tires and oil change, I got a verbal estimate for the brakes and the rest, and gave them the go-ahead over the phone.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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(Buying one tire by itself is also, imho, a bad idea. Unless, of course, you're broke and desperate.)
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Despite what you say, that estimate DOES seem unreasonable to me. For parts and labor for what you were getting done, I would expect to pay less than $600. If that.
We have an excellent mechanic, who I trust explicitly, who has never overcharged us or lied to us and always gets us the lowest cost on a reliable part (i.e., he'll tell us if it's something he can safely put in an off-brand or salvaged part for, of if it's something we really need a new part from the manufacturer for, and what tires will give us the best value for our money on our car, etc.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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When Firestone does any work on a car, they perform a "free" inspection of several parts of your car and will suggest replacement of anything that's even a little bit off.
Your battery, for instance, is probably fine. Most likely it looked a little dirty or corroded to them, so they suggested a new one. A new one from Walmart or a parts shop would cost about $50 and could be installed by you in five minutes. They probably charged over $100 to put one in for you.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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Attach a voltmeter to your battery. If you get readings of about twelve volts with the car off and about fourteen with the car on, your battery is fine. Unless you have actually noticed performance issues, anyway.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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What kind of car is it? As I understand it, some cars (just all-wheel-drives, I think) require you to replace all four tires at the same time. If you don't, you'll damage the older tires.
And personally, I'd recommend against getting just two tires at a time. If you're getting them rotated at the prescribed intervals and don't have alignment or suspensions problems, they should all be fairly equally worn, which means that they should all be due for replacement at the same time. Some used car appraisal sites actually say that mismatched tires hurt your car's value (which, of course, only matters if you want to sell it).
Also, Michelin and AAA says that the rear axle is the proper place to put a pair of replacement tires.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Icarus: Also, everyone physically capable should gradually learn to fix his or her own car.
Believe it or not, you will generally do a better job than a mechanic will.
Oh, and I agree with this on both counts—just so long as you don't tackle any jobs that you don't have the tools or skills for, like adjusting your alignment or rebuilding an engine.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Have the mechanic produce an itemized list of what's wrong, with parts & labor costs for EACH item, in writing. Any mechanic that will not do this is dishonest and should not be trusted.
Once you have that list, it will be somewhat easier to tell if he's jerking you around.
Pick up a Chilton or Haynes manual for your car ($20-25) and see if you can do any of the repairs yourself. A new battery, for example, requires a maximum of 5 minutes of work (not including the time it takes to go to the store and buy one). You can also get your battery tested at any Schuck's/Checker/Kragen for free.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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They're definitely lying to you. I would get your two tires, but I wouldn't even worry about the brake pads, you can go to the auto parts store for those and it will be a lot cheaper. The only other expense I've spent on brakes was buying a twelve pack of beer for a friend to put them in for me. Once you've learned how to put them in though, it's easy.
Batteries, also are much cheaper than what they want to charge you. Take your car to Sears and they'll test it for free. If it fails, you're looking at maybe $50 for a new battery.
Posts: 681 | Registered: Feb 2004
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I'm going up to Firestone, right now actually, to get an itemized list of what is being done on the car and what each thing will cost me. Thanks for the words of advice guys.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Brake pads are easy. Brake drums somewhat less so. That's why I asked what kind of brakes he had.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:What kind of car is it? As I understand it, some cars (just all-wheel-drives, I think) require you to replace all four tires at the same time. If you don't, you'll damage the older tires.
I don't see how that would be possible. The reason for replacing four tires at once is so the traction characteristics of your car will be consistent between the front and rear. If you have two different brands/ages of tires between the front and rear you can get a traction differential that may compromise the handling of your vehicle, particularly during high speed turning or braking.
That said, the difference is not likely to be enough to be noticed by most people in most situations so I would just replace two at a time.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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This is just what I heard from a friend who owned a new Subaru and found out that he'd have to replace all four tires when one was damaged. It had to do with the tread depths being different. I can't imagine it being that big of a problem, but it still might be worth looking into if Lyrhawn has an AWD vehicle.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I have the same set of tires that my car came with. At over 55,000 miles, they show no signs of needing replacement. Not even close yet.
One reason for this is that I have had them regularly rotated.
I am not very comfortable with the idea of not rotating the tires at regular intervals. If that's a recommendation from seasoned mechanics, it's not one I've ever heard.
And if you buy new tires and don't rotate all 4 tires, I think you're wasting a fairly substantial portion of all your tires' longevity.
But...your mileage may vary.
As for this service/dealer -- go someplace else. If you get the same exact story, then you now have two mechanics you can reasonably trust to work on your car. If you get a different story, you at least know that mechanic #1 was trying to rip you off.
Posts: 61 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:This is just what I heard from a friend who owned a new Subaru and found out that he'd have to replace all four tires when one was damaged.
With AWD a traction differential will be more noticeable, but unless you are doing a lot of aggressive driving I wouldn't expect it to dramatically affect the speed at which the new tires wear.
quote:And if you buy new tires and don't rotate all 4 tires
Make sure your tires allow this. On my car the tires are directional so they cannot be swapped left-right and the front and rear tires are different sizes so they also cannot be swapped front-back.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:What kind of car is it? As I understand it, some cars (just all-wheel-drives, I think) require you to replace all four tires at the same time. If you don't, you'll damage the older tires.
I don't see how that would be possible. The reason for replacing four tires at once is so the traction characteristics of your car will be consistent between the front and rear. If you have two different brands/ages of tires between the front and rear you can get a traction differential that may compromise the handling of your vehicle, particularly during high speed turning or braking.
That said, the difference is not likely to be enough to be noticed by most people in most situations so I would just replace two at a time.
The reason you have to have identical tires on a four wheel drive vehicle is that the transmission sends equal rotation to the front and rear differentials by means of the transfer case. If the tires are not identical, then the front tires and the back tires will try to drive different distances from the same amount of rotation. The result is strain on the transfer case and front and rear differential, which are very expensive parts. It also causes the tires to scuff slightly with each rotation and causes scallops or cupping wear on the tires, which will ruin them in a very short time.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Okay, I talked to the guy and the tire thing was a miscommunication. They thought I was telling them to replace the two good ones, and they were informing me that the bad ones needed to be replaced too, but we got that cleared up and they are only going to replace the bad ones. So that's one crisis averted.
They said the battery measured as less than 12 volts, it was corroded, and there's an indicator that's supposed to be green that was solid black. So he said it might last a bit longer, but the extreme heat will wear it faster, so I shouldn't wait too long. He also quoted the price as $112 to replace it, so I think I'm going to check Costco in a couple months to see what their service center can do for me.
The wiper fluid thing was about $100 as well, $30 for the part and $70 for the labor.
The brakes, I need new brake pads and rotors. The cost for new pads, rotors, and cleaning and adjustment is $230, but I had a coupon so it was reduced to $200.
I felt a lot better after talking it out with the guy and actually seeing it on paper. He seemed fairly amiable and trustworthy, and wasn't at all threatening about the state of the car, he even told me flat out that he was confused about the tire thing. I might be able to find the brake fixing somewhere else for cheaper than $200, but at this point, I have to have it done ASAP, and I don't have time to price shop, which I suppose is my lesson for the month in doing things before it's too late.
Thanks for all the advice you guys, I probably wouldn't have gone back up there to talk to the mechanic and get everything on paper if I hadn't heard from y'all.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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