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Author Topic: The Official Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Discussion and Spoiler Thread
Pepek
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cont.

that and I don't think Voldy would be stupid enough to think the hiding room of requirement would be 'unknown' to others when there's clearly a lot of crap in that room people have hidden..

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Dagonee
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I think he went to Albania to get the Diadem before he went after the Potters. He went to Albania after he was reduced because he knew it from that trip and knew it would be easy to hide there.

What was the object that would have been the Horocrux had Voldemort killed Harry in Godric's Hollow?

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Javert Hugo
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Could he have been looking for the invisibility cloak?
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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by breyerchic04:
I don't get the diadem part. Voldemort went to hogwarts to apply for DADA before he got very popular, probably more than 15 years earlier (though maybe not). But he didnt' have the diadem until he went to Albania which whas the time from when Lilly and James died until Quirrell picked him up.

I'm sure he went to Albania well before that. He went to work for the dark arts shop until he killed the woman with the cup and the locket...then he disappeared for 10 years that no one can account for. I'm sure that's when he got the diadem. After that disappearance, he went to ask Dumbledore for a job, and that's when he planted the diadem in the room of requirement.

quote:
Originally posted by Pepek:
cont.

that and I don't think Voldy would be stupid enough to think the hiding room of requirement would be 'unknown' to others when there's clearly a lot of crap in that room people have hidden..

Who said it had all that crap in there when Voldemort found it? The room turns into exactly what you need, and whether consciously or not, part of what Voldemort needed was to think that no one else had found the room. I'd bet that for him, the room was empty.
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Pepek
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quote:
part of what Voldemort needed was to think that no one else had found the room. I'd bet that for him, the room was empty.
curious. that gives me some comfort.
still though, wouldn't that version of the room for him not be fullfilling the requirements? The room having been found..
He also placed it on the bust, maybily.

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ElJay
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I don't think he was intending the make a Horocrux when he killed Harry, my read was that it happened accidentally because his soul was so fragmented already, that when the curse bounced off Lily's protection, it caused an unplanned splintering.
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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by Pepek:
quote:
part of what Voldemort needed was to think that no one else had found the room. I'd bet that for him, the room was empty.
curious. that gives me some comfort.
still though, wouldn't that version of the room for him not be fullfilling the requirements? The room having been found..
He also placed it on the bust, maybily.

I didn't say the explanation was perfect, but it was something that I thought of. The DA members needed a place that they couldn't be found and yet they were found, so it's not like there's no precedent for that.

The other explanation is that Voldemort that the room had filled itself up with junk to make it harder to find the Diadem, even if someone did stumble upon the room in the future. There is also a precedent for Voldemort being cocky beyond reason and completely assured that he was special.

Not sure which it is...may never know...may even be something else. [Smile]

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Who said it had all that crap in there when Voldemort found it? The room turns into exactly what you need, and whether consciously or not, part of what Voldemort needed was to think that no one else had found the room. I'd bet that for him, the room was empty.
But then it clearly was not giving Voldemort what he "needed" as his needs were circumvented by other people's need to find it....and clearly I cannot take the glass in front of you!
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Pepek
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maybe Voldy was a clepto and /allll/ the stuff in there was put there by him. [Smile]

Voldemort is such a perfect villain name. Snape too.

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The Pixiest
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Didn't Hagrid say in book 1 that there was no safer place to keep something than Gringot's? Cept maybe Hogwarts. And it was echoed in book 7.

Obviously a horcrux had to be hidden in Hogwarts. That was building from book 1.

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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by Pepek:
maybe Voldy was a clepto and /allll/ the stuff in there was put there by him. [Smile]

Voldemort is such a perfect villain name. Snape too.

Hey....I'm not sure if you're joking or not but actually, that's not such a bad idea. Remember, when Dumbledore found him at the orphanage, he had a box full of stuff that wasn't his. Maybe at Hogwarts he has a room full!
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Pepek
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oh yah! . wow. that'd be cool.

---

If I was Voldmunch, I would've picked up a random rock and horcruxed it. Toss it into a volcano or drop it off somewhere in the arctics.. middle of an ocean.. into another pile of rocks.

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Javert Hugo
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I like that he didn't - it was his fatal flaw.
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Dagonee
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quote:
I don't think he was intending the make a Horocrux when he killed Harry, my read was that it happened accidentally because his soul was so fragmented already, that when the curse bounced off Lily's protection, it caused an unplanned splintering.
I get that Harry becoming a Horocrux was both unplanned and unknown to Voldemort.

Dumbledore said that V. intended to make a Horocrux when he killed Harry as a baby. V. made Nagina a Horocrux after he returned (when he killed the old Muggle in GoF) because he didn't think he had made one when he attacked the Potters.

If D. was correct, then there should have been an object to become the Horocrux there, unless the object can be far away (which wouldn't contradict anything in the books, but seems unlikely).

It could have been the invisibility cloak, but there's no indication that V. knew it's special nature.

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ElJay
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Ah, okay.
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sarcasticmuppet
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Dumbledore made a big deal though, that Harry thinking Voldemort just made his horcruxes out of trash was thinking about it like a portkey, which was wrong. The thing held a part of his soul, for crying out loud.
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Pepek
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the goblet being a portkey was genius..

:: retrospects ::

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PSI Teleport
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quote:
It could have been the invisibility cloak, but there's no indication that V. knew it's special nature.
Except that the cloak wasn't there. Dumbledore had it.
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Pepek
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quote:
Except that the cloak wasn't there. Dumbledore had it.
convenient timing..
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Dagonee
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I know that, but V. didn't.
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PSI Teleport
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But you'd think he'd want to have it when it was time to make the Horcrux, ie, kill Harry. Surely some looking around would have concerned him, even delayed his timing of the murder, if he couldn't have found it.
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steven
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" don't care if he meant that. It's untrue and slanderous in either case. Steven should apologize."

I wasn't arguing from a religious perspective. I was discussing the use of a literary device from Rowling's possible Christian perspective. I was raised Christian, but that's it.

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Eaquae Legit
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I'm guessing that when Voldy hid the diadem he was looking for a room that Dumbledore wouldn't find it in. Dumbledore's the only one he was actually afraid of - he was waaay to cocky, especially before his failure at the Potters, to worry about anyone else. All the students who were looking for a hiding place were probably specifying "where the teachers/Filch can't find this" as well. And in that case, his arrogance was his undoing, never thinking that mere children would know about horcruxes, figure out which was his, and be able to destroy it.
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Liaison
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Aha! Thank you Lyrhawn and xtownaga!
I figured I was really biffing something up and you guys made it crystal clear.
Thank you.

There will be a live chat with Rowling in a week and Bloomsbury is taking submitted questions.
Bloomsbury Page

That's promising. Certainly we'll get a few answers to lingering questions. I'll hope for a definitive answer of who the magic-later-in-life person is and how James finally won over Lily.

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pooka
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I submitted a question. I hope I can remember to attend the chat. Let's see, BST, if it's Greenwich time, is... 9 a.m. our time. That's probably not likely to work well for me, but one never knows.

My question was quite rambling and had to do with the Peverell brothers and whether in her mind Death was based on a being of some kind or represented the power behind the 3 unforgiveable curses, and also why Madeye Moody's eye could see through the cloak. I guess maybe the idea there is that magic doesn't necessarily branch toward greater and greater power like a tree. It's probably like rock, scissors, paper.

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Synesthesia
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His eye can see through anything though.
He can even see bogarts's real forms and no one can do that.

I hope i have a job by then.

See, if Harry decended from the Peverells, that means he's related to Voldermort.

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steven
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The only obvious WW2 thing I see is that Grindelwald was from Continental Europe, and had a German name. Also, the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald takes place in 1945.

Edit: whoops, never mind. That was meant for the Potter thread on Ornery, which makes sense, come to think of it.

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breyerchic04
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Yeah, but he decended from a different Peverell, the one that was considered good.


I'm still upset we found out so little about James's homelife.

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GaalDornick
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Yeah, we never found out what James did for a living.

Can someone tell me what chapter Lupin dies in? I can't find it and I don't remember when it says it first.

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steven
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Lupin died in the final battle before Harry "dies". that's either the last or the next-to-last chapter, I don't have my copy here at the house.
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Synesthesia
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quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
Yeah, we never found out what James did for a living.

Can someone tell me what chapter Lupin dies in? I can't find it and I don't remember when it says it first.

Dood
He had rich parents. He didn't know the meaning of the word "work" I think.

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breyerchic04
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I didn't mean what he did for a living, though that would be interesting. I meant what his parents were like, why they were dead, what they did possibly. I'm not entirely convinced they were rich, they were rich by the standards of an 11 year old boy judging in money that he knew nothing about, and didn't really have to live off of. For hogwarts he needed money for supplies and for the train those first three years. Maybe they were rich, maybe he just didn't understand.
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Amilia
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quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
I'm curious as to thoughts on Pettigrew's death. For me, it was blatantly obvious that it was a result of the life debt owed to Harry via Harry's refusal to let Wormtail be killed in PoA. Based on various discussions, I appear to be alone in this consideration.

Thoughts?

I know the discussion has long since moved on, but I am fascinated by the severed hand motif. It is our hands that do things; they are how we shape the world. But when our hands are severed from our bodies, we can no longer control our circumstances. The severed hand makes for a powerful image of powerlessness. Watch for it, it is everywhere, from traffic signs to pop culture to Shakespeare and the Bible to ancient mythologies.

Harry Potter has several severed hand references, but the most blatant is Wormtail. In the beginning, when he is only serving Voldemort out of fear and is not yet ready to yield quite all of his choices to the Dark Lord, he cuts off one of his fingers. But by the end of Goblet of Fire, he is ready to surrender all of his will to Voldemort. He cuts off not just a single finger, but his whole hand.* Voldemort in return gives him a silver hand. Wormtail's hand is now Voldemort's hand; Wormtail's will is now Voldemort's will.

In Deathly Hallows, Pettigrew's brief flicker of remorse, his slight attempt to resist Voldemort's will is too little too late. His hand is still Voldemort's hand, and when he attempts to use that hand for his own purposes, the hand turns on him and chokes everything out of him.

Everything played out just so abso-positively-lutely perfectly that I have to admit that scene is one of my very favorite in the whole book.

*I am still majorly POed that the movie makers cut off the Wrong Hand!!!!

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GaalDornick
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quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
Yeah, we never found out what James did for a living.

Can someone tell me what chapter Lupin dies in? I can't find it and I don't remember when it says it first.

Dood
He had rich parents. He didn't know the meaning of the word "work" I think.

James' parents were rich? Where does it say that?
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Lyrhawn
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It was an old wizarding family, and they left Harry a considerable amount of money, but that doesn't mean they were rich per se, especially not rich enough to live solely off James' inheritance.
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breyerchic04
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As far as I know the only mentions of James's parents were that harry recieved money and when Sirius says he stayed with them after he left Grimauld place.
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GaalDornick
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I know, but if I understood Syn correctly she was saying that James never worked because he received a huge inheritance from his parents. I was wondering where this was mentioned, I don't remember at all reading that Harry's grandparents were rich.
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Fyfe
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I feel like Rowling has said before that James was the only son of two very rich parents who had him late in life and spoiled him rotten. So that's his deal.
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Christine
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I got the impression that the amount of gold left, while sufficient for him to get through school without having to take shortcuts, buy used, or cut corners, was not enough for him to just go crazy or last him forever. This was due to a reference in book 3 to Harry's longing to buy the firebolt while he was staying in the Leaky Cauldron...something about (sorry, this is from memory) he had to remind himself how it would feel to ask the Dursleys for money for robes and potions materials to keep himself from buying....[insert several things]...but the biggest temptation came in the window of "Quality Quiddish Supplies"..."

Anyway, that was why I got the impression that he had enough to very comfortably last him through school and get him started in life but not enough to live off of forever.

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Jim-Me
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It also entirely likely that the money left to him was not entirely from James... if your community had a suddenly orphaned child, wouldn't you take up a collection for him? It also sat in Gringotts for 10 years, presumably gathering interest.
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TheBlueShadow
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quote:
MA: What about Harry's family — his grandparents — were they killed?

JKR: No. This takes us into more mundane territory. As a writer, it was more interesting, plot-wise, if Harry was completely alone. So I rather ruthlessly disposed of his entire family apart from Aunt Petunia. I mean, James and Lily are massively important to the plot, of course, but the grandparents? No. And, because I do like my backstory: Petunia and Lily's parents, normal Muggle death. James's parents were elderly, were getting on a little when he was born, which explains the only child, very pampered, had-him-late-in-life-so-he's-an-extra-treasure, as often happens, I think. They were old in wizarding terms, and they died. They succumbed to a wizarding illness. That's as far as it goes. There's nothing serious or sinister about those deaths. I just needed them out of the way so I killed them.

http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-tlc_mugglenet-anelli-3.htm
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Scott R
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Just finished it five minutes ago.

Cried at Dobby's death.

Didn't cry when Fred bit it.

Loved Harry's self-sacrifice.

Didn't like Dumbledore's exposition chapter.

Loved, loved, LOVED Neville.

Loved, loved, LOVED Mrs. Weasley offing Bellatrix.

Loved the book.

Wow. I'm all...shaky.

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Noemon
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Scott, what did you think of Snape's exposition chapter?
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Christine
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I've heard a small amount of grumbling (here and in real life) about the dialogue between Harry and Voldemort at the end. I just wanted to say for the record that I loved it. I often don't buy that kind of talk right before the kill but I did in this book and I cheered Harry along as he called Voldemort, "Tom Riddle." I had kind of hoped that would happen. I bought it from Harry's point of view because he was trying to give Voldemort the chance to feel some remorse -- to explain what had happened and show him he was wrong. I bought Voldemort listening to it because he was flummoxed. He had just hit Harry squarely with the second killing curse and for the second time, had failed to actually kill him. I think he was frightened and trying to work things out. In part, Harry may have been playing on that, too -- psyching him out a bit with his talk.

Anyway, just wanted to say that for the record. [Smile]

[ July 25, 2007, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Christine ]

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PSI Teleport
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I liked it, too. It was so nice to see Harry have the upper hand for once!
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steven
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"flu maxed"

I believe that's spelled "flummoxed".

Your spelling was entertaining though. Did you have a little internal explanation worked out for your spelling?

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heifertipper
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quote:
Originally posted by pooka:
I submitted a question. I hope I can remember to attend the chat. Let's see, BST, if it's Greenwich time, is... 9 a.m. our time. That's probably not likely to work well for me, but one never knows.

I also submitted a question to JK, but I wondered if anyone else could answer it just in case it gets overlooked.

I am really confused about the whole Fidelius charm and why Snape couldn't lead the other death eaters into Grimuald's Place. Now Mad Eye put a tongue tying curse on anyone who entered the house but the Fidelius charm spread out onto the porch step and Hermione was able to show Yaxley where Grimuald's place was just by showing him the door as they were disapperating. Doesn't that mean that Snape could have side-apperated anyone onto the porch and revealed the secret and therefore allowing anyone in? Snape was just as much a secret keeper as anyone else and the tongue binding charm didn't come into play until you walked through the door. Now it makes sense that the death eaters couldn't get it because we all know Snape would not have let them in, but the trio would not have trusted that. The death eaters probably did not know that Dumbledore was the secret keeper so they wouldn't have assumed Snape would now be one of the 20 new secret keepers, but
if Snape had been actually an enemy, he could have led them in without a problem. He got in quite easily after the charms were in place because we know he took the last part of Lily's letter after he killed Dumbledore. It just doesn't make sense why they thought they were safe.

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Christine
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never mind
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Scott R
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Noemon--

I thought that it was a little forced. All this battle going on, Voldemort says you have one hour, and Harry runs away to instinctively stick his head in the Pensieve? I'm okay with him doing that, I just didn't buy his reasons for doing so. (He didn't have a reason...in fact much of the last half of the book was Harry relying on instinct, which annoyed me a bit).

I wasn't thrilled about the memories-of-Snape chapter; I'd pretty much figured that Snape was in love with Lilly back in book...I guess two or three. But I didn't find that chapter as dull as the King's Cross chapter.

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pooka
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Something that occurred to me about King's Cross today is whether Dumbledore waited there to talk to Harry, if he hadn't quite died yet himself. He also didn't appear from the resurrection stone, while Lupin did. But his portrait appeared, which was always the proof that he was really dead.
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