posted
It seems to me that the great majority of people seem to be dissapointed (myself included) with how the epilogue panned out. I myself was expecting a detailed description of what happened to every major character. Instead, no, we recieved little information.
As a scene by itself, and as an ending of a book it was superlative, don't get me wrong. But for the ending of a series many have poured their hearts into? I was fully expecting to learn of the fates of my most favorite charcters. Indeed it also left many ends loose. Was Teddy a werwolf? Who was Headmaster? (Probably McGonagol), Was Snape's story ever told. What even happened to Teddy?
It seems to me, that as more and more people finish the book, more will come to the same conclusion, and Rowling will most likely decide that she needs to clarify what happened. Whether she writes another book, or simply another chapter, I don't know, but I feel that there will be an enormous outcry from the Harry Potter community to tell us, lest she end the series on a sour note for many.
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posted
I believe she has stated she would most likely at some point publish an encyclopedia containing much of the information and back story she has in her notes and head, but of which she had no room or time to divulge in the books.
I would bet that there will be a "What happened to..." section in that, if its ever released.
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posted
I'm surprised that so many people are dissappointed in the Epilogue I thought it was perfect.
Life usually has loose ends, it's just the way it is. Books that try to tie up all the loose ends sometimes frustrate me ...
Teddy might or might not be a werewolf, but he is loved by his friends and relations and is dating Bill and Fleur's daughter. Teddy could either have been brought up by Bill and Fleur, Mrs Weasley, Gma Tonks or Harry and Ginny. I suspect not Bill and Fleur given he is dating their daughter. Whoever brought him up clearly loved him and he is practically familly to Harry and Ginny.
Who is headmaster? Someone that has managed to get the school back on track, it's working just as it always has.
Snape's story was told in the great hall and Snape story in known to the principal characters that have named their child with Lily's eye's after Severus. I feel sure he woudl have felt hugely honoured.
George would have grieved for his twin and then continued his business. Someone that creative and fun would always bounce back.
Mr and Mrs Wealey are proud grandparents.
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posted
I would have liked more information than just how many kids everyone has, their names, and the fact that Neville is a professor.
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posted
I would like to know what happens to Percy. Does he go back to Kingsley's ministry, or does he perhaps take his brother's place in helping to run the joke shop?
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posted
I don't see Percy in the joke shop. I see him as Kingsley's right hand man, and possibly Minister himself one day - a good one, given that he has gotten over his pompousness. He was very capable and smart, after all and once he came back down to earth would be a great administrator and official.
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posted
The trouble with the encyclopedia is that the epilogue itself wasn't really the problem. As has been pointed out, life comes with loose ends and you'll never know exactly what happens to everyone without an alphabetical character listing with a rundown of dates, weddings, children, jobs, and death. That would be boring and I'm not interested. I have enough back story to be satisfied, too. I don't need more of that.
What I was interested in was one more chapter before the epilogue -- an honest to god chapter of denouement that describes some of the aftermath of that battle. The wizarding world was in a state of advanced upheaval. That year at Hogwarts didn't relaly count or happen for many of the students...what will they do next year? What does Harry Potter do in the thick of all that? Disappear? Accept the many honors that will come his way? Or does Rita Skeeta try to turn him into the next dark lord and everyone fears him? Does he finish school in the end? What kind of job does he get? I imagine it would be hard for him to get most normal jobs after what he did and in the end, I don't believe auror was the right one for him, even though he defeated Voldemort and would have been welcomed there.
His life may *eventually* turn into a normal life, but in a way I found the epilogue far-fetched. I imagined people would be gawking at him more than ever before, even 19 years later. No one will forget what happened that night and there were hundreds of witnesses. I also never got a sense that he moved on, since the scene at the epilogue centered on a new generation going off to Hogwarts. Maybe this is coming from the perspective of a 30-year-old, but there's more to life than school. Surely he's found a new way to define himself in that time? If not, I find that pretty sad. It reminds me of Serius, living his life through Harry, who he thought of as James. Yet in Serius' case it was understandable because he really didn't have another life.
But I desist...in a nutshell, I don't want an encyclopedia of notes. I want a real sense of closure.
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posted
I don't think it was - Stranger Than Fiction was just a flat-out happy ending. Harry was clearly a Christ figure, and after he willingly sacrificed his life after learing from his stand-in father figure it was required of him, he came back from death stronger with the knowledge that he could defeat Voldemort.
Wanting Harry to stay dead is a different story entirely. It may or may not have been a bad story, but it isn't the story Rowling was telling.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: His life may *eventually* turn into a normal life, but in a way I found the epilogue far-fetched. I imagined people would be gawking at him more than ay to define himself in that time? If not, I finever before, even 19 years later. No one will forget what happened that night and there were hundreds of witnesses.
The Epilogue had nearly everyone at the Station staring at Harry, once they realized it was him.
You think he was present when his kids went off to school because he was "sad and living through them"? Isn't it more likely that he loves his children and wanted to say goodbye to them?
I think most problems from the Epilogue stem from it being written all the way back in 1998-1999. Rowling's style and characters have evolved since then, and it shows. She should have gutted it and retrofit it.
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posted
I thought it was fine the way it is. Most of the details we can fill out ourselves, like assume that things turned out OK for all the people who mattered despite the losses. It meant the worse is over, the badguy is dead, the world has gone back to normal. Maybe he became a Quidditch player if he doesn't have to worry about tracking down Death Eaters.
Plus it equals the posibility of JKR changing her mind and thinking, "Hmmm, maybe I do want to delve into this world again, but on my own terms, where are my notes?" Which makes me feel hopeful.
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quote:Wanting Harry to stay dead is a different story entirely. It may or may not have been a bad story, but it isn't the story Rowling was telling.
Well, the story that went with Harry dying had to do with taking "For the greater good" at the point of giving one's own life. I think that would have been a pretty good story. But it probably would have focused on a few different things on the way there.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: His life may *eventually* turn into a normal life, but in a way I found the epilogue far-fetched. I imagined people would be gawking at him more than ay to define himself in that time? If not, I finever before, even 19 years later. No one will forget what happened that night and there were hundreds of witnesses.
The Epilogue had nearly everyone at the Station staring at Harry, once they realized it was him.
You think he was present when his kids went off to school because he was "sad and living through them"? Isn't it more likely that he loves his children and wanted to say goodbye to them?
I think most problems from the Epilogue stem from it being written all the way back in 1998-1999. Rowling's style and characters have evolved since then, and it shows. She should have gutted it and retrofit it.
No, I guess what I meant was that I wanted to see Harry's life beyond school if she was going to bother to show us a bit from 19 years ahead. It felt like his life never really moved on because she didn't describe it moving on. I remember reading that she wrote the epilogue years ago and maybe that is the problem.
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posted
I posted this on the other thread but I think it belongs here instead:
Oh, and I really thought the epilogue was perfect, if not deeply satisfying. The reason is because the epilogue is really just the fulfillment of something that was touched on in OotP, when Harry muses about how his life would have been if Neville had been attacked by Voldemort instead of himself. He thinks about a normal life, one where his parents would have brought him to King's Cross. Notice, please, that the epilogue was not focused on James, the older Potter son, but on Albus, Harry's doppelganger. It was there to let us feel and see what Harry's life could have been. It's a gift to Harry, most of all. There's a reason Ginny so resembles Lily and Harry, his father, and Albus, Harry.
Forgot to add: I think that's why their professions aren't mentioned; they don't matter. Neville's is mentioned as an aside in the same way a small child might discuss a professor that he already knows from outside school. You could easily replace "Neville/Professor Longbottom" with "Albus/Professor Dumbledore" or "Remus/Professor Lupin" for a young, unscarred Harry.
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posted
Perhaps Rowling, since she wrote the epilogue a long time ago felt that she should write up to it. As the epilogue originally stood that is how it would remain, dispite what wonderful new developments she conjured up in between.
Personally I am glad I got an epilogue at all, there are many wonderful books that never gave me such a gift.
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posted
I don't think we can blame the "weaknesses" of the epilogue on it having been written first. SS is more rich in detail than the epilogue is. Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
She apparently changed the word "scar". I don't think the epilogue was just raw out of the safe from 1990.
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posted
Yes, but that was because she was excited and inventing the world, not preemptively deciding how things would wrap up.
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quote:Originally posted by pooka: She apparently changed the word "scar". I don't think the epilogue was just raw out of the safe from 1990.
Of course, but I bet much of the epilogue remains as when it was first written. Rowling herself said many times she knows who ultimately makes it and who doesn't. Then she said two people die she was not expecting and one person got a reprieve. But based on the vagueness of the epilogue all three of those characters could have gone to hell in a handbasket and it would not effect the final chapter.
I wonder how sureal of an experience it is/was for Daniel Radcliff, Emma Watson, Rupert Grint, etc to read the last book and all the while thinking, "I might have to SAY that," or Radcliff for example to say, "Yes I get to smooch Ginny again! *pumps fist*?"
Does Alan Rickman think, "Bah!, in the seventh movie I have to die pathetically pleading for my life, and by then I'll have spent 6 movies doing such a splendid job being so coarse!"
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I thought the epilogue was perfect. It gave just enough information to know that their lives kept going, but nothing really about what they were doing.
What's it really matter what HP et al. were doing? Sure it would be fun to find out, but JK cannot be expected to map out the remainder of everyones' lives. I think it would be tedious, perhaps enjoyable, but really just useless.
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posted
Rosie and Hugo are HerRonny's children, right? Is there any hints around in the books about what inspired the names?
Besides Albus Severus.. I thought a James and Lily was a bit much.
I suppose i'm just not a big fan of naming people after other people. Middle names, sure, but they already share the same last name with a bunch of other people, can't their first name be their own?
posted
I'd have preferred that the epilogue didn't exist. Not because I didn't want to see that the core characters were happy, but because I didn't feel that it fit in that place and at that time. I would have been happy to have the story end with the three walking out of the Great Hall. I would have possibly been happy with another chapter or maybe two dealing with immediate after-effects, but maybe not. But that 19 years after just didn't work for me.
Heeheee, and we have a Harry Potter poll site ad on the page...
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quote: Then she said two people die she was not expecting and one person got a reprieve.
I wonder if we'll find out who. Probably Lupin and Tonks were the two she hadn't meant to kill. "My bad!"
People who might have died but didn't: Draco? George? (Instead of Fred, she got confused) Ummm.... Hagrid?
Neville didn't get to exact vengeance on Bellatrix. Maybe that was okay.
P.S. The Epilogue is just right if you happen to be 37 with a child who is almost 11. But I can see how a lot of folks might feel left out of that.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I totally bet Hagrid was suppose to die (and I un-secretly wish he had)
She changed her mind when she was writing the part where Harry comes back to life and she was trying to decide how she'd go about bringing his body back, maybe having it been Narcissa at first..
Death by creatures would've been the most.. wow.. death for Hagrid.
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posted
The reason for the off-camera wedding, deaths, discoveries, and the lightweight epilogue is obvious: J.K clearly left huge wide-open areas for fanficcers to leap merrily into. I anticipate lengthy, conflicting explanations of each of these scenes and lots of "Harry Potter: The Missing Years" stories to keep those fan sites active for years to come.
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quote:Death by creatures would've been the most.. wow.. death for Hagrid.
Well, he had it coming. But maybe she didn't want to make it seem a violent death was the just rewards of excess tolerance.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: The reason for the off-camera wedding, deaths, discoveries, and the lightweight epilogue is obvious: J.K clearly left huge wide-open areas for fanficcers to leap merrily into. I anticipate lengthy, conflicting explanations of each of these scenes and lots of "Harry Potter: The Missing Years" stories to keep those fan sites active for years to come.
Chris sums up my impression of the epilogue nearly exactly. It's almost as if JKR was trying to maximize the areas for fanfic to fill in. I would have preferred more post-battle wrap up or some info on what happened over the next year to the "19 years later" but I don't hate the epilogue.
posted
I can see why some people liked the epilogue. Indeed it provided closure, and as an ending for me it was good. It's just that I've been reading these books for Ten years, and the characters have really grown on me, so naturally I'm going to want to know what happens to them. As for fanfic, 1, its never written as well, no one can truly immitate another author, its too personal, and it just doesn'y feel right if someone else does it. So when I read the book and saw so many loose end before the Epilogue, I fully expected them to be tied up in the Epilogue. Instead, we learn the fates of only a few characters.
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quote:Originally posted by pooka: By the way, it's awesome to see PSI Teleport back.
Indeed!
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: The reason for the off-camera wedding, deaths, discoveries, and the lightweight epilogue is obvious: J.K clearly left huge wide-open areas for fanficcers to leap merrily into. I anticipate lengthy, conflicting explanations of each of these scenes and lots of "Harry Potter: The Missing Years" stories to keep those fan sites active for years to come.
posted
I find it really unlikely that JKR left a hole for fanfic specifically... it's not like she makes any money or derives any real benefit from such writing.
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posted
Not planning on starting up the "is fanfic useful/good/eeevil/useless" arguments, I was (mostly) joking. I don't think she did it deliberately.
However, she is one of the few authors to go on record as permitting fanfic; the only restriction she has placed (besides don't sell it) is against depictions of underage sex.
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posted
I think the Epilogue can be summed up as simply as this ....
"...and life goes on."
Yes, you are curious, but does it really matter what job Harry got? Obviously he go some job to support his soon to be family. Obviously Ron got some job too, because that's what adults do, they get jobs and raise families.
I prefer to think that since Harry was an original investor and backer of Weasley Enterprises (or Weasley Wizarding Wheezes as it was formerly known), that he was in a sense, a full partner in the business. So, with Fred gone, Harry simply asserted his partnership and entered the business.
Did that happen? It doesn't matter, it's what I think happened, and that satisfies me.
The bad guys are gone, and what can or does anyone do when the war is over. They get on with their lives, they return to normal, they shift their priorities to what is really important; love and family, and taking care of them.
From the looks of it, they've all done an excellent job of it.
Yes, I do wonder what happened to say...Draco... reprieve? ...prison? ...rich? ...poor? ...remorse? ...regret? But in the end it doesn't matter. What ever happened to him, he came through it and...
...life went on.
This is how books are suppose to end, with the readers not knowing but speculating on what happened next. When a book ends like that you feel alive because you know 'life goes on', that things do happen next, even if you don't know what they are.
For example, at the end of the Ender Sage, what happens to Peter and Wang Mu? Do they settle down and raise a family, or do they go off seeking adventure? What happens to Miro and Jane? What happens to the Formics and the Piggies? What happens with Starways Congress? What happens with faster than light-speed travel? So many unanswered questions?
In the Bean Sage, what happens to Petra and her kids? What happens to Bean in Flight and his kids? Again, so much of the future is left to the reader's imagination.
I imagine that Bean became confined to the ship and it's limited gravity, while his kids had to go down to strange and sometimes hostile planets and negotiate for food and supplies.
I imagine, that will all their massive brain power, and Bean there to educate them, they developed a degree of telepathic power that kept them connected with Bean while the kids wander unfriendly planets negotiating for supplies.
Did that happen, it doesn't matter because in my mind and my imagination, that 'happening' is just as real as if it had been written in the books.
You don't end a story with the readers completely satisfied and knowing everything. You leave them with their minds and imaginations on fire, speculating about the future and what happened next. You don't leave them hanging, but you do leave them wanting more; that is what keeps the story alive even when it is over.
There is tons that we don't know, but this we do know ... life went on. Of that, I'm glad.
posted
That's interesting about Rowling and the fan fiction, though I can see where she would support anything that encourages literacy within the limits of the law and ethics.
Maybe the name of Draco's kid indicates he married Lavender Brown or Pavarti Patil, more than being destined to be a villain in a soap opera.
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quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: Not planning on starting up the "is fanfic useful/good/eeevil/useless" arguments, I was (mostly) joking. I don't think she did it deliberately.
I could see it being a small (certainly not primary) motivator.
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I saw an interview with JK a few years ago, I think about OotP release time. She said had written the last chapter so she could keep writing knowing how it would end and it would in fact come to an end. That is exactly what the epilogue felt like. Something she wrote a long time ago so she would know who lived through it, who died and who ended up together.
I wouldn't have minded one more chapter dealing with some funerals, and maybe a few hints that Hogwarts would go on, but we didn't need every question answered. Rowling’s never promised to wrap up every loose end in fact I believe she said she wouldn’t before DH came out.
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posted
I thought the Epilogue betrayed the book a little; it wasn't written as well or paced as strongly as the rest of what preceded it, and didn't actually provide much of a real denouement. I would have scrapped it and replaced it with a "three days later," myself; nineteen years is just too far out for me to care, frankly.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I agree with Tom(and everyone else who was disappointed with it). It seemed poorly written compared to the rest of the book and I felt like I was reading a list of names instead of an epilogue(which btw were pretty confusing).
Besides that I absolutely loved the book.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by BlueWizard: I think the Epilogue can be summed up as simply as this ....
"...and life goes on."
Yes, you are curious, but does it really matter what job Harry got?
Yes, it does matter to me. It's been one of the leading questions in the back of my mind since book 1 on the train when Harry asked Ron what his older brothers did. He was curious what wizards did when they left school. I fully expected at that point, why back in book 1, to find out. It's a huge lack of closure for me. The question of what Harry would do has followed him since -- in book 4 when he thought of the aurores and in book 5 when he turned out to be a good teacher.
Not only that, but telling us what he did also helps us put into perspective what personal effects that last battle had on him. Saying, "...and life goes on..." is too neat because for Harry, at least, life will never be completely normal. I'm glad to see he got a taste of that with Ginny and 3 kids, but I'm still left with a gaping hole.
Just my opinion, anyway.
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posted
BW - while I can see your point, the fact remains that I do want to know. I want to know if Harry became an Auror or if he just lived off his high school glory days and his Wheezes income and stayed on the couch watching TV for 19 years. I would like to know that Hermione became reknowned for inventing spells or that Ron became a Quidditch star. I would like to know who raised Teddy, and what McGonnagle is up to these days.
What was provided was (IMO) too much family minutae and not enough of anything else. I'd rather have seen it end at the Battle of Hogwarts or the first few days afterwards.
Were I forced into an epilogue, I'd rather have seen Harry and Ginny at the train station seeing off their firstborn on his first day. It would be a more clearcut break, a passing of the generations, Harry could still have had his Sorting Hat Speech moment, and a pregnant Ginny would indicate more to come.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Fair enough. OK, younger kids acting up and Harry takes the eldest one aside for his speech. Maybe a mention of familiar faces bringing their own kids past him, waving as they go by, but keep the focus on Harry and his son.
For my tastes, there was too much kid-centric information presented and not enough of any other kind.
(And why name a kid after Severus but not Sirius? Little weird, there...)
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
We all know Harry, Hermione and Rod would be able to do what ever they wanted after the war. What ever job/career they are interested in. But by leaving it open you can fill it in with what ever you want. If she had filled in all the loose ends then there would be plenty of people who loved it, and plenty who would be disappointed. I prefer to think Harry and the gang continued to have some adventures from time to time and ended up working at Hogwarts, (his only true home). But if you feel he would have had his fill of danger and fame after the war then you can picture him all settled down in an easy job raising a family.
Overall she must have done a pretty good job if the epilogue is the only real complaint most people have.
Posts: 555 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Difference of tastes, I think. Clearly many were happy with the epilogue, and good on them. It didn't affect my enjoyment of the rest of the book, which was considerable and emotional. But since this thread is about the epilogue...
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posted
"(And why name a kid after Severus but not Sirius? Little weird, there...)"
Maybe James' middle name is Sirius? And I don't think it's fair that none of them are named after Ginny's family. Why not one kid named Fred?
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: "(And why name a kid after Severus but not Sirius? Little weird, there...)"
Maybe James' middle name is Sirius? And I don't think it's fair that none of them are named after Ginny's family. Why not one kid named Fred?
I didn't like the middle name of Severus for a different reason -- because Snape never liked Harry and is probably rolling in his grave about Harry's kid getting his name. As to Fred -- that's George's right to have that name for his kid, if he has one. And other than that, there was no one else in Ginny's family that needed the honor.
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