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What was Petrelli Senior's power? Did he have one? I can't remember if this was ever actually stated.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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An empath is a mind reader. Usually refers to someone who reads someone's feelings rather than thoughts, but Matt has done both. "I actually heard him pull the trigger in my head."
More generally the term empath refers to anyone who is psychic. Matt is an empath. Especially nnow that we are learning that his powers have greater extents.
It certainly doesn't mean someone that can absorb someone else's supernatural powers.
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Yeah I saw the link. Fine, I was wrong, but the word "empath" existed before Heroes, and Matt meets that definition.
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I know that Troi was called an empath because she could only sense emotions, not full thoughts, which would have made her a telepath. Maybe that usage is peculiar to Star Trek, though. I'd never heard Charles Xavier referred to as an empath, but I never read the comics.
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I guessed awhile ago that Adam/Kensei was either the first, or of the first generation of heroes, and that he was Kristen Bell's father, but now I'm doubting that he is the father.
Bob said that they lost track of Peter in Cork. And since she was in Cork, I would assume that she was the one tracking him, who lost track of him when he and Irish girl went to Montreal. So that leads me to believe that she's Bob's daughter, except that just looks...weird. Plus she's casually evil, which sort of reminds me of Adam's moral ambiguity. So I'm really split on that one.
But I think the eclipse is when it all started. Either Adam was the first, or Adam was of the first group. Clearly he hadn't ever had the power before the eclipse, so that was the starting point, but it might be strange if he was the only one effected by it.
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I was assuming/hoping the eclipse doesn't really have to do with anything. It's just to look good for the intro.
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So you're saying before the eclipse, living the sort of life he has lived, he'd never had ANY SORT OF INJURY EVER?
The guy works with a katana in feudal Japan, and has done who knows what before that. But Claire, a high school girl living in 21st century Texas managed to at least get as sliver or minor cut and noticed it.
I find it literally impossible to believe that he'd never had any sort of cut or injury in his entire life until THAT moment. It's beyond my suspension of disbelief.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: His powers could have not manifested until then. Nathan didn't fly until we saw it.
I don't recall that being true. In fact, I got the feeling he had flown before, and we only saw it becaue he did it to save Peter.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: His powers could have not manifested until then. Nathan didn't fly until we saw it.
I don't recall that being true. In fact, I got the feeling he had flown before, and we only saw it becaue he did it to save Peter.
The earliest evidence we have of Nathan ever flying is in the car accident. While we were never shown any absolute evidence one way or the other, the level of control he demonstrates over his ability to fly in the car crash compared to when he flees Linderman's thugs suggests that the rapid development of his powers is due to either their newness or an increasing need.
Both reasons are pretty defensible, honestly.
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I still don't buy that Adam's powers just happened to manifest themselves randomly then. Claire, who has the same power, had her powers manifest a decade or more earlier, depending on how old Adam is.
I suspect we'll get that answer one way or another eventually, maybe even soon, but that's my guess.
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They didn't manifest right when he was stabbed. They could have manifested much earlier, he just hadn't seen them because he hadn't been injured in a while.
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Maybe if the character was Niles Crane from "Frasier" I'd believe he'd never been injured before, or not even in the past couple years, but a samurai? Not believable.
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Wait now. Samurai who pays someone else to stand in front with a sword while he picks off his opponents from a tree. He might well not have been injured since settling on his tactic.
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Noah is starting to get boring IMO. I think he made a much better villain than he does a good guy (if you can call him that). He just doesn't have the ability to take a step back and see things from afar. He is too convinced that his way is the best way and I honestly can't wait till painting 8 of 8 takes place.
At the moment, I'm siding with the company as the "Good" side, despite them being morally "Grey" as Mohinder put it. However, I hope they never get a hold of Claire. Alleviating her fear of the company could very easily turn her evil. I mean, other than that, she has NOTHING to fear, No real consequences, no need for accountability, especially when she inevitably breaks off from her family and that stalker West.
Hiro, on the other hand, is getting MORE interesting by the episode. As he continues to develop and refine his power, he is starting to USE it more. I remember thinking in the first season after he got the sword "Why the hell doesn't he just stop time whenever he suspects any amount of danger?". He literally has all the time in the world. He doesn't need to be especially quick-witted, he just needs to make his default reaction to stop time so he can asses the situation.
I'm just glad he has stopped being paranoid about the "Space-time continuum". It was really annoying that he kept making decisions based on a danger that he didn't even know for sure EXISTED. I thought at first that Future-Hiro had experienced something that PROVED that using his power could have negative consequences (When he told Peter on the subway that he was "Risking a rift" by coming back), but it was never founded that I can tell. I mean hell... Hiro and Future-Hiro even talked face to face and nothing came of it. Future-Hiro made it sound as though a Rift were cataclysmic or something, but how could he know if he had never experienced one, and how could he be alive to know about it if he HAD experienced one? Either a Rift isn't as bad as he made it out to be, or it was another unfounded paranoid worry.
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Empathy involves the sensing of emotions. It has a real-world application because many people who have a certain social sensitivity are considered empathic in that they understand the needs and feelings of others. In a science fiction or fantasy setting, it is taken further -- allowing people to sense emotions through a sort of sixth sense, even if they were hidden. It has also been taken to the next level to include the ability to manipulate emotions in others and/or the ability to use the magical gifts of others. This latter is often explained by suggesting that the powers are, in part, tied to emotion.
There is a lot of precedent for this view of emotions. Beginning with Deanna Troi on Star Trek, who was NOT able to read minds unless it was with her mother, who was a full telepath. I often felt her gift was underused and underappreciated.
Telepathy, on the other hand, involves actually reading thoughts out of a person's mind. Often, telepaths are also empathic.
In terms of Matt Parkman, I would say that his new abilities to manipulate the fears and nightmares of others verges on being empathic. I would not say he is an empath. I think that science fiction precedent allows that power to fall under the umbrella of telepath, but when he manipulates fears and emotions that is an empathic gift.
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Good news: Basically he says they dropped the ball this season and are going to fix it. The next few episodes are supposed to be good.
He adimts: it started too slow, the new characters should have tied in to the main story somehow, the Clair love story sucked, Hiro was in Japan too long.
Bad News: Writers strike could make the Dec. 3 episode the season final.
Sorry if someone already posted this. I haven't read the entire thread.
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quote:Hiro and Future-Hiro even talked face to face and nothing came of it. Future-Hiro made it sound as though a Rift were cataclysmic or something, but how could he know if he had never experienced one, and how could he be alive to know about it if he HAD experienced one? Either a Rift isn't as bad as he made it out to be, or it was another unfounded paranoid worry.
Why do you assume that the danger of a rift is physical? I hear the word "rift" in this context and I think "permanent way between times/spaces/dimensions," which could very easily be cataclysmic, were anyone to find out about it.
A rift could also be a tear in space-time which, while not immediately physically dangerous, could have an exponential rate of expansion, ultimately becoming extremely dangerous.
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And by very dangerous, you mean destroy the universe.
"In terms of Matt Parkman, I would say that his new abilities to manipulate the fears and nightmares of others verges on being empathic. I would not say he is an empath. I think that science fiction precedent allows that power to fall under the umbrella of telepath, but when he manipulates fears and emotions that is an empathic gift."
Yep, Xavier is the prime example. Perhaps Parkman will eventually reach Xavier-like strength?
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quote:Hiro and Future-Hiro even talked face to face and nothing came of it. Future-Hiro made it sound as though a Rift were cataclysmic or something, but how could he know if he had never experienced one, and how could he be alive to know about it if he HAD experienced one? Either a Rift isn't as bad as he made it out to be, or it was another unfounded paranoid worry.
Why do you assume that the danger of a rift is physical? I hear the word "rift" in this context and I think "permanent way between times/spaces/dimensions," which could very easily be cataclysmic, were anyone to find out about it.
A rift could also be a tear in space-time which, while not immediately physically dangerous, could have an exponential rate of expansion, ultimately becoming extremely dangerous.
Hiro is a geek. All he really knows about his powers is what he assumes based on his years of geekery. Fooling around with time can cause a rift in the space-time continuum. Why? Because everyone knows it can. Everyone who reads science fiction and comic books, anyway.
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And yet it somehow never dawned on him that the Kensei he heard about in stories was actually him. Yaeko had to figure that one out.
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quote:I think that science fiction precedent allows that power to fall under the umbrella of telepath, but when he manipulates fears and emotions that is an empathic gift.
Given that neither empathic nor telepathic gifts exist at all in the real world, then writers can make them mean whatever they want them to, which is why I changed my tune so suddenly when I saw that Kring has defined Peter as a "empathic mimic." I still think Claude used the wrong term when he was telling Peter about his power, Peter is a mimic, and he should have said so. The empathic part is only significant in that it separates Peter's mimicry from Sylar's.
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quote:I think that science fiction precedent allows that power to fall under the umbrella of telepath, but when he manipulates fears and emotions that is an empathic gift.
Given that neither empathic nor telepathic gifts exist at all in the real world, then writers can make them mean whatever they want them to, which is why I changed my tune so suddenly when I saw that Kring has defined Peter as a "empathic mimic." I still think Claude used the wrong term when he was telling Peter about his power, Peter is a mimic, and he should have said so. The empathic part is only significant in that it separates Peter's mimicry from Sylar's.
Actually, the empathic part was more significant last season when Peter had to actually think about and make an emotional connection with the person he was mimicking before he could use their power. This season, his power was completely cheapened and even contradicted because I don't think he should have been able to use anyone's power if he didn't remember them. It's not consistent with how he discovered his powers last season.
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quote:Actually, the empathic part was more significant last season when Peter had to actually think about and make an emotional connection with the person he was mimicking before he could use their power.
He didn't seem to need to do this near the end of last season. He started glowing around Ted, just by being in the vicinity.
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: Actually, the empathic part was more significant last season when Peter had to actually think about and make an emotional connection with the person he was mimicking before he could use their power.
I thought that was just the trick he used to unlock his ability to use the powers whenever he wanted. Afterwards he could seemingly use them all at will.
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quote:It's not consistent with how he discovered his powers last season.
Yeah, I've been looking into the whole thing and it's changing pretty dramatically. I didn't follow the show last year, but it seemed that Peter's original power was to predict the future through dreams. That's definitely more along the lines of an empath. Except that the future he was predicting limited to was the progression of his own ability to mimic powers.
The whole dream thing just dropped off the map, which is a shame, I think. Peter is too powerful and needs to be restrained somehow. If they'd kept it that he didn't absorb powers until he dreamed about it, it might have made the story work better. The loss of memory thing could have worked too, if he lost the powers because he couldn't remember them. In the meantime, Sylar has lost his power, and we have no idea why.
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Glenn - We don't have NO idea why. I think it's because of the Shanti virus.
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: So you're saying before the eclipse, living the sort of life he has lived, he'd never had ANY SORT OF INJURY EVER?
He's a coward.
What, he never fell out of that tree he hides in? I know he went from hiding in trees to being up front and brave in a short span of time, but I don't believe that he magically just learned how to use that sword, he must have trained with it before hand, and I can't believe that in all that time he never got even a nick or small cut, he's a drunk, he must have gotten into a bar fight or had a disgruntled customer, he must have at least gotten a BRUISE at some point. Even cowards get injured, especially heavily armed ones living in feudal Japan.
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I don't see why that couldn't have been the first time his power manifested itself. Just because Claire survived a fire as a baby doesn't mean that all powers are apparent at birth. In fact, she seems to be the exception to the rule, since most people were just discovering their powers and wondering what was going on in the first season.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Glenn - We don't have NO idea why. I think it's because of the Shanti virus.
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: So you're saying before the eclipse, living the sort of life he has lived, he'd never had ANY SORT OF INJURY EVER?
He's a coward.
What, he never fell out of that tree he hides in? I know he went from hiding in trees to being up front and brave in a short span of time, but I don't believe that he magically just learned how to use that sword, he must have trained with it before hand, and I can't believe that in all that time he never got even a nick or small cut, he's a drunk, he must have gotten into a bar fight or had a disgruntled customer, he must have at least gotten a BRUISE at some point. Even cowards get injured, especially heavily armed ones living in feudal Japan.
Not that I am an expert in Feudal Japanese sociology, but it is quite rare for Japanese folks to get into fist fights. I would think the fact Adam is a foreigner would also make many Japanese folks hesistant to physically harm him, for various reasons.
Look maybe his ability kicked in the second before the arrows hit him, who knows? Either way there is no set time for the abilities to kick in. I am sure the muscle mimic has seen tons of television, but she still didn't do anything she'd seen on television until that tomato.
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The other thing that we know is that the abilities have a genetic component. At least, enough of a component to track them through whatever bizarre version of the Human Genome Project that exists in the Heroes world (since I could not even begin to reconcile that with our version). A genetic ability that can be triggered via eclipse would be pretty odd. A genetic ability that manifests either at birth or at (seemingly) random times during development would be more likely.
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quote:A genetic ability that can be triggered via eclipse would be pretty odd.
In a world where people can fly and shoot electricity from their hands, "odd" has a special meaning.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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*shrug* Then you figure out a plausible way in which evolution could select not only for abilities, but abilities that are triggered by eclipses (which are fairly rare) and maybe I'll be convinced Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: *shrug* Then you figure out a plausible way in which evolution could select not only for abilities, but abilities that are triggered by eclipses (which are fairly rare) and maybe I'll be convinced
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: And yet it somehow never dawned on him that the Kensei he heard about in stories was actually him. Yaeko had to figure that one out.
I think he was in denial. A geek like Hiro should have twigged to that immediately. But it was so important to him that his hero be someone he could look up to. If he's Kensei, he's got no role model any more.
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"What, he never fell out of that tree he hides in? I know he went from hiding in trees to being up front and brave in a short span of time, but I don't believe that he magically just learned how to use that sword, he must have trained with it before hand, and I can't believe that in all that time he never got even a nick or small cut, he's a drunk, he must have gotten into a bar fight or had a disgruntled customer, he must have at least gotten a BRUISE at some point. Even cowards get injured, especially heavily armed ones living in feudal Japan."
I suspect that it would have healed so quickly that he didn't notice he was ever injured, and he just figured he was lucky.
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Random comment: It's a little off putting when your name suddenly finds a way into (pretty much) the only television show you try to watch every week.
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: I didn't follow the show last year, but it seemed that Peter's original power was to predict the future through dreams. That's definitely more along the lines of an empath. Except that the future he was predicting limited to was the progression of his own ability to mimic powers.
I'm pretty sure that his power has been mimicry all along, and that the dream thing came from someone else. My guess is that they came from Charles Deveaux, since he was able to see Peter and talk to him during that dream sequence towards the end of last season.
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quote:Just because Claire survived a fire as a baby
Actually, Claire survived because her father (HRG, not Nathan) removed her from the burning building. At least, that's what happened in the comic book version -- he and Claude went to bag-and-tag Claire's mother, and she set the place on fire. He had to rescue Claire.
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