posted
Theoretically, the world of Heroes as it is IS the alternate future.
Why? Because if they had never learned of the future, the city would probably have gone nuclear, and Sylar would have been president under the guise of Nathan. It's because of the paintings that they were able to avoid those things. Sort of a self-fulfilling unprophecy.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Theoretically, the world of Heroes as it is IS the alternate future.
genau!!
There is a world of difference between paintings which tell you what will happen unless you stop them and paintings which tell you what will happen no matter what you do.
[ November 12, 2007, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
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posted
Wow. Based on the previews...I'd say Darth Hoodie is Hiro.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
saw the episode, dang blast to the past show, only covered the previous 4 months but i geuss it sets the stage for an exciting netx episode.
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This was great. I missed seeing Hiro, but really, we know where he has been.
Adam has suddenly gotten a whole lot more interesting. Does he know about the Shanti virus? Is he just playing Peter to get revenge on Hiro, or does he really have intention to save the world? Has he been eaten alive by 400 years' desire for revenge, or is he redeemable? Does he even know about Hiro? He must, since he knew Kaito.
Next week seems to promise the end of the West-Claire-Bennett drama, which I am profoundly grateful for.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Theoretically, the world of Heroes as it is IS the alternate future.
Why? Because if they had never learned of the future, the city would probably have gone nuclear, and Sylar would have been president under the guise of Nathan. It's because of the paintings that they were able to avoid those things. Sort of a self-fulfilling unprophecy.
I thought it was mostly because of the paintings that the events almost happened in the first place. They saw the future and tried to avoid it, and that's what led to Peter being in New York where he ran into Ted.
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posted
I really like Bob. He strikes me as a really good character and he could swing as either good or bad. I would like him to be evil, though, as he's too jolly for a good role, if that makes any sense.
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posted
I really don't know what Adam and Bob are in terms of good and evil. Though I can't see Bob as being good when he sends a sociopath on his errands.
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quote:Adam has suddenly gotten a whole lot more interesting. Does he know about the Shanti virus? Is he just playing Peter to get revenge on Hiro, or does he really have intention to save the world? Has he been eaten alive by 400 years' desire for revenge, or is he redeemable? Does he even know about Hiro? He must, since he knew Kaito.
Bob told Niki that the split personality is a common side effect of the hero mutation. We know Nathan is experiencing it. Maybe Adam is an alternate personality of Kensei.
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quote: Agreed Phanto. The whole point of saying that every painting comes true is the implication that once events have been painted they can't be changed. If they happen on an alternative time line, then clearly they can be changed.
When I brought this up the first time I said that I'd like to understand the rules that govern this. This is an important part of the whole series; not just painting the future, but what are the rules that govern each individual's powers? The writers have to stay within those rules or the whole system is broken.
At this point I'm guessing that the rules for painting the future is that Isaac (or whoever) is looking through the eyes of another hero. If it is seen by a hero, no matter what timeline it occurs in, it can be painted. Just my guess.
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1. If Peter (and Claire and Adam for that matter) can recover his memories by "healing" his brain, wouldn't that also mean he can never learn or remember anything new, or at least that he would erase what he had learned or experienced through the healing process?
2. Has Claire stopped aging? If not, at what point does one with this regeneration power stop aging?
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Bob told Niki that the split personality is a common side effect of the hero mutation. We know Nathan is experiencing it. Maybe Adam is an alternate personality of Kensei.
Bob hasn't really shown much regard for the truth in the past. The idea that it's a common side effect could just be another lie to get Nikki on board.
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: [QUOTE]Maybe Adam is an alternate personality of Kensei.
I doubt it. I think Adam is his real name, and Takezo Kensei is his alias, because A) unless left on some samurai's doorstep as a tiny British orphan (with built-in accent) his name isn't Kensei and B) he's the same person whether he wants to be known as Kensei or he's telling Hiro he's just a guy tricking everybody.
Liked the episode. We got more dimension to Maya and Alejandro, who were becoming the Heroes-equivalent of Nikki and Paulo, and Elle, who was already an alluring character.
And now they can certainly afford to kill somebody off with this premature season.
posted
Personally, I thought the whole bit with the twins was pointless. We learned absolutely nothing of significance that wasn't already easily inferred.
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posted
k, definately liked this episode, as I liked the vast majority of the last one, and I appreciate the comments by the creator on where he realizes they've gone wrong but one thing is still just bugging the heck out of me...
Who in their right minds ever thought that umpteen versions of the exact same Twins plot would somehow intrigue us when absolutely no development has gone on with respect to the characters or their powers... we are at absolutely the same point with those two as we were in episode one...
I mean, I know I'm far from the only one frustrated by this particular plotline, but how bad do you have to be to think "hey if we just do the exact same thing over and over again without explaining it at all it'd be good right? I mean, the viewers won't just get mad at us right?" gah!
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quote:Originally posted by EmpSquared: It was easily inferred that Maya killed her brother's wife?
What did that tell us about her character or his that we didn't already know?
It just didn't seem to matter to me. I don't think their characters are at all interesting. Nikki/Jessica/whoever-that-third-one-is does a better job of grabbing my attention.
edit: or what Grimace said.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
In this situation, the event itself is important whether it (arguably) adds depth to the character or not. Maybe the previous episodes have damaged their capacity to be attractive to the audience, but his wife's death does add urgency, however minute, to their quest.
And what do you need explaining about the powers? It was apparent from the beginning that Alejandro was the cure, and now we know who exactly was killed and why they're on the run.
My issue is actually with the actors. Too melodramatic, and I don't take them seriously. I just admire that we got some back story.
And I don't think Angela returned Peter's memories. When he saw her and "tried" to regain memories, he went through a ton of mini-flashbacks, and seemed to only remember her. Later, Adam asked to him to remember what mattered when he saw Nathan, and seeing how Nathan was embroiled in pretty much everything Heroes-related, Peter pulled a lot more out.
But it's complicated either way if I'm right or wrong about it. If Angela could give back memories, wouldn't she have done them all? Or if Peter had remembered everything about his mother, wouldn't he recall Nathan too?
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posted
What an underdeveloped power then. Not that it's a given, but shouldn't the old Heroes have powers that have evolved even further? If someone like Maury can go from just reading minds to being illusion/telepathic extraordinaire, shouldn't Angela have something stronger than just initiating memory recovery? It's like all of her friends became microwaves, and she remained a crock pot.
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posted
She could just not like to use her power. It's possible that she can also create false memories?
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Barring a different motive, why wouldn't she use her power to unlock Peter's memories? It seems like the memories were real, and not fabricated. Nathan didn't even like to acknowledge that he could fly, but he helped people anyway.
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I meant that she has both powers, and used the one to unlock his memories. The one concerning false memories is pure speculation based on the idea that powers evolve.
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I think it's relevant that the camera kept focusing on Angela touching Heidi when they talked in the hospital. (And how were they going to explain not one, but two miraculous healings to the public?) I'm guessing persuasion powers of some sort.
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What kind of crappy power is restoring memories?! Shigosei has it right. So it seems that healing evolves into being able to heal others, didn't think of that. I think Peter should only be able to use others' base power, not the more advanced levels of it. Elle is such a Psycho. They screwed the pooch with DL. It stupid that he wouldn't have let the bullet pass through him, he saw the guy coming. I don't get how the Haitian was helping by erasing Peter's memory. It's stupid that Nathan could have let go a bit earlier and been fine, and that Peter could fly right after exploding. Overall, I liked the episode. They just screwed a few things up.
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posted
I don't think Angela returned his memories, though for awhile I thought she could heal.
I think she used her powers when she was talking to Nathan's wife. Why else would they have made such a point of the camera catching her touching her and then gripping her arm? They specifically panned down when she gripped her arm. I think she has the power to influence minds, or at least to convince people to listen to her. And she has to be touching them to bring it off.
Still, very interesting episode. Lots of questions answered and a few new ones created.
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posted
Angela convinces people of things. That's why Nathan went along with Linderman's plan last year, and that's what happened last night. It's also how she got Peter to start regaining his memories.
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posted
Well, he's got lots of reasons to think she wouldn't answer for one thing.
I think we can safely assume that Adam's powers lie entirely in the realm of incredibly advanced healing. If there was something more, I doubt that he could've been imprisoned for so long, much less be the punching bag (or, I dunno, power strip, whatever) for our little cold-blooded witch with a 'b' in the prison.
She also felt comfortable bringing him down herself, and barring duplicity on either her or Adam's part that means that any other powers he might have can't be useful offensively.
As for Niki/Jessica/Gina...well, I don't care about her anymore. I'm only interested insofar as what she does to other characters. Either she's a) so damaged by her multiple personalities that she cannot make decisions responsibly (thus the decision to stay with her family, and ditch the meds), or (and I think this is more likely) she's just to chicken-s to make the tough decisions. Given her character's background, I don't find the latter so surprising. It's sad, just not interesting to me anyway.
Also, I rolled my eyes at the scene where Gina came forward and left Niki in the background. The expression on Niki's face in the mirror was...what, like, mild annoyance? I'm beginning to see why she gets so much flak as a crummy actress.
I do think it likely that Angela has some power that involves touch, and other people's opinions, feelings, or perceptions. But I'm not sure what it is, exactly. It'd need to be pretty potent at least, to make Nathan's wife forget the effects of Linderman's healing, and most importantly to, I dunno, just not see Nathan flying when, if she went on not believing him, he decided to prove things to her (if he did decide to do so).
Perhaps her abilities are a sort of reverse of the Haitian's. Instead of power supression and memory wiping, memory creation and power amplification? Who can say?
I was looking forward to finding out why Claire is such an idiot this season, but that'll have to wait.
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posted
Wow, last night's episode was awful. I can't remember seeing a worse episode either this season or last and I can't think of any redeeming features.
First of all, we put a screeching halt to the forward action to show us what should have been shown a long time ago, was perfectly obvious, or was inane.
Let's start with the obvious and uninteresting:
The twins. YAWN! We knew she did something when her powers first manifested and frankly, I still don't care what.
The inane:
Nikki and DL. First, Nikki gets a new random personality? Yikes! That one made me cringe. The writers and creators of this show have obviously never bothered to figure out how multiple personality disorder works and I absolutely don't believe that the brains of these "heroes" works so much differently from humans. Plus, she still can't act.
DL, meanwhile, was pointless. I mean, I kind of liked the guy last season, for all he was connected to Nikki. He shows up dead this season and we figure that bullet from last season got him. That owuld have made sense. But noooooo....he survives that and gets a random and pointless gunshot wound to the heart in a club a few months later.
Finally, there were the parts we should have learned a different way:
It was nice to finally see how Peter and Nathan survived the explosion, but I don't see why it couldn't have been part of last season's climax. It didn't add anything to withhold the information.
So Adam and Peter were fellow prisoners for a while. Well, I pretty much figured that out but did we really need an entire episode just for that?
And can anyone explain to me why the Haitian took all Peter's memories?
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posted
I don't know, the concept of a flashback episode wasn't so bad. It was made worse, however, (for me) by having it be about some characters I just don't care about, namely the twins and Niki. DL's death was pretty ridiculous. He's fast enough to trigger his phasing to avoid a punch, but not fast enough to see the guy coming at him with an angry scowl pull a gun?
I mean, the second time the guy comes at him, a street-smart guy like DL would have to know, "Violence may ensue here."
I do think it added things to last season's climax to withhold the information.
Sure, we could've guessed that Adam and Peter were prisoners...but we had no idea where Peter WAS for four months, so we couldn't really be sure, could we? It was one of many plausible guesses.
The Haitian took all of Peter's memories presumably to a) give him a better life, and b) maybe give him more time to grow into powers while not KNOWING he can `splode, thus saving people. Possibly once Peter gets the hang of dozens of abilities, he'll be able to handle the one without blowing up.
------------------
Yes, Claire's acting like a teenager. An ordinary teenager. I refuse to believe that most teenagers would behave so stupidly in her situation, though, when they were cognizant of the risks involved. Hell, when Anne Frank was up in the attic, you didn't read in her journal about sneaking downstairs to date cute boys, did you?
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: [QUOTE]Maybe Adam is an alternate personality of Kensei.
I doubt it. I think Adam is his real name, and Takezo Kensei is his alias, because A) unless left on some samurai's doorstep as a tiny British orphan (with built-in accent) his name isn't Kensei and B) he's the same person whether he wants to be known as Kensei or he's telling Hiro he's just a guy tricking everybody.
Regardless of what name he's going by, the dual personality issue makes sense, from a plot perspective. We used to think Niki was an abberation, but not we see that Nathan is also living with a multiple personality. So Niki's split isn't random, it's part of the whole syndrome. It also explains why the company locks people up, even if they seem like reasonable people. If they have an alternate personality, they are dangerous.
Also, in Japan, Kensei changed moods dramatically, from "I'm a scumbag that just wants fame and money," to "I like this being a hero thing and I'm in love with the princess," and back again. That may have been a precursor to the personality split.
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posted
I'm not convinced Nathan is living with a multiple personality. Having a flashback to when your face was horribly mutilated and thinking awful things you don't say aloud do not MP make.
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: DL's death was pretty ridiculous. He's fast enough to trigger his phasing to avoid a punch, but not fast enough to see the guy coming at him with an angry scowl pull a gun?
I mean, the second time the guy comes at him, a street-smart guy like DL would have to know, "Violence may ensue here."
Also, we've already seen DL phase out in time to avoid being shot: when Jessica was trying to kill him with a sniper rifle. She hit him once since he had no idea she was even there, but he phased out before the second shot passed through his head.
(This is all rather fresh in my mind because I only started watching the series about two weeks ago and am now caught up.)
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Yes, Claire's acting like a teenager. An ordinary teenager. I refuse to believe that most teenagers would behave so stupidly in her situation, though, when they were cognizant of the risks involved.
Doesn't your third sentence contradict your second one?
Claire hasn't really had dating options while living at home, so I wasn't surprised that when she met a straight guy she could confide in she started dating him against her parents' wishes and lied to keep it a secret. Those raging teenage hormones had to take over sooner or later. I did find West's stalking pretty creepy, though, and was a bit surprised that she still went for him so fast after that.
[Edit: Changed the first word of the post to "Also."]
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I really don't know what Adam and Bob are in terms of good and evil. Though I can't see Bob as being good when he sends a sociopath on his errands.
True, but she's his daughter. That makes a difference. And other than the leeway he gives Elle, we haven't actually seen Bob do anything malicious. Bad, maybe, but that's a judgement call, and his intentions seem to actually be good. At least so far.
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Bob told Niki that the split personality is a common side effect of the hero mutation. We know Nathan is experiencing it.
No, we really don't. You keep talking about it as if it's somehow an established fact, but not a single thing has happened on the show that indicates Nathan having a split personality. If you ever saw yourself in the mirror looking like he did, I'm pretty sure you'd have flashbacks about it for a very long time. But his reflection, other than looking burnt, never did anything. There's no evidence of any split personality there.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Wait... when did Nathan get an alternate personality? Sleazy politician to Drunk does not a personality disorder make. Also, where did the assumption that he didn't know about his ability to fly from the start come from? Just cause he denied it to Peter at the beginning of the first season doesn't mean he didn't KNOW about it. He was obviously covering it up for his political campaign (Or, he was under the effects of "suggestion" from his mother).
Did anyone else think that Adam's trick with the blood transfusion to be a little encroaching upon Linderman's ability? Kind of a cop-out if you ask me. It would have been better to leave that power to be something to regret losing. At the very least, they should have introduced a new character with Linderman's ability rather than just handing out them out willy-nilly to everyone.
I completely agree with the whole DL thing. That part could have been completely cut out and nothing would have been lost. If I had to guess, I would say they got 2 things from it. a) Staling time to cope with the writer's strike (15-20 minutes of an episode is SOMETHING), and b)A simple reason why Niki was with the company.
About the second point though, I don't think they realized just how little people care about Niki and that nobody gives a crap about why she was there.
As for the twins... they could get into a car crash and burn in the next episode for all I care about THEM (so long as Sylar escapes). Though I foresee her playing a role in taking out Adam (lets see you heal from THAT wolverine boy!).
Seeing as how they're jumping back and forth between subplots, next week is gonna be Mohinder/Matt/Molly, Claire/Noah/Stalker, Hiro/Ando, and Micah/Mimic-girl-whos-name-escapes-me. Also, some of these subplots are gonna have to start meeting up soon if the "Generations" story arch is supposed to conclude on Dec.3. I'm predicting Sylar & friends meeting Micah & co., and the beginning of the 'Mohinder meets Noah' showdown (but not the conclusion. That one is too major to happen all in a single episode. I predict second to last episode before Dec.3). Hiro is gonna jump in completely at random somewhere (except that he isn't gonna meet Adam yet. That one won't be till the last episode)
I didn't watch the next weeks clips btw, so some/all of this may already be known/proven false.
Posts: 636 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: I do think it added things to last season's climax to withhold the information.
Sure, we could've guessed that Adam and Peter were prisoners...but we had no idea where Peter WAS for four months, so we couldn't really be sure, could we? It was one of many plausible guesses.
The withheld information I was complaining about was mostly what happened to Nathan and Peter immediately after the explosion. Nathan was even aware of that information and yet all we got from him were some ridiculous looks at a deformed face in the mirror.
They probably did need to show us Adam and Peter's meeting at some point and a flashback might be the only way to do it, but sheesh...it was a whole episode for maybe 10 minutes of content.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by rollainm: Two questions:
1. If Peter (and Claire and Adam for that matter) can recover his memories by "healing" his brain, wouldn't that also mean he can never learn or remember anything new, or at least that he would erase what he had learned or experienced through the healing process?
2. Has Claire stopped aging? If not, at what point does one with this regeneration power stop aging?
1. No, learning something new is creating new pathways in the brain. You don't carve anything into the brain or hurt anything in the brain to make new memories. The fact that Peter could heal his brain and his memories indicates that the Haitian does some brain damage when he takes away memories. Claire's mother having headaches and brain hemorrhaging also indicates that the Haitian's power damages brain cells.
2. Growth is different from "aging" as I see it. "Aging", to me, is when cells can no longer divide and replicate, or they replicate poorly or incorrectly. Growth is merely fulfilling the blueprint that is DNA. Claire is growing until she reaches full maturity. But she won't ever get old.
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quote:Originally posted by rollainm: 2. Has Claire stopped aging? If not, at what point does one with this regeneration power stop aging?
1
I think the key here is the difference between GROWING and AGING. I did some looking into it because I'm currently writing a novel in which the characters have stopped AGING. At the moment, Claire is still growing. Humans typically grow until sometime in their mid-twenties, at which point they start aging. So I would expect Claire to be a fully mature woman before she stopped looking any older.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: Wait... when did Nathan get an alternate personality? Sleazy politician to Drunk does not a personality disorder make. Also, where did the assumption that he didn't know about his ability to fly from the start come from? Just cause he denied it to Peter at the beginning of the first season doesn't mean he didn't KNOW about it. He was obviously covering it up for his political campaign (Or, he was under the effects of "suggestion" from his mother).
That's actually very possible. I hadn't thought of that.
quote:Originally posted by sylvrdragon: Seeing as how they're jumping back and forth between subplots, next week is gonna be Mohinder/Matt/Molly, Claire/Noah/Stalker, Hiro/Ando, and Micah/Mimic-girl-whos-name-escapes-me.
Monica. Anyone notice that they have a thing about people whose names begin with M? Mohinder/Matt/Molly. Micah/Monica.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I was sort of thinking that he did it as a 'quick-fix' type of thing. Peter was so amped up in that moment that if he'd kept the memory right then than he'd probably try to go back and help Adam. The Haitian's reference to how Mrs. Petrelli (sp?) had helped him in a time of need just got me thinking that he wanted Peter to go somewhere away from where they were right then - because he probably knows that Bob (or at least electrical-charge-psycho-gives-me-the-willies girl) was up to something no good.
There's got to be a way to get the memories back, look at Fufu-dog lover Bennett? She's got some (at least) stuff back...
Enough of my rambling, but I'm thinking it was to pacify him in the moment... and then just a good dose of blind faith that he'd find his way back to where he needed to be.
Okay - actually one more comment before I spare you more of my rambling... ; ) I don't get a split personality thing from Nathan - I get a what were they thinking having a mirror there because you really can't just show someone themself completely different looking all in your face with no talk about it before hand and now he's got that crazy image in his head even thought he looks in the mirror and sees the him he remembered and he's all 'is that real? did i really look like that?' type thing. (holy run-on sentence, batman!!!) Maybe the visions he has where he was fighting the mirror are tied into the dreamsharing and Matt's dad (for one) messing with people's realities?
Now I'll really stop with my rambling... : )
Posts: 1355 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Honestly, I think the only thing going on with Nathan in the mirror was bad writing. I think they were trying to hint what happened after the explosion without coming right out and telling us. I definitely don't get split personality and I pray that the writers will quit while they're behind on that one. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:If you ever saw yourself in the mirror looking like he did, I'm pretty sure you'd have flashbacks about it for a very long time. But his reflection, other than looking burnt, never did anything.
Nathan's reflection is being revealed to the audience in exactly the same way Niki's was. Apart from the very obvious visual difference, it moves independently, instead of the way a reflection normally would. Also, the editing has that "dunt dunt duuh!" kind of "hey we just dropped a huge clue" feeling. Added to Bob's claim about personality splits, it all falls into place. Ignore it if you want, but I'm sticking to it until I'm proved wrong. It also fits with the idea that these powers have to have common threads, rather than just being random mutations.
quote:Mohinder/Matt/Molly. Micah/Monica.
Speaking of naming conventions; in addition to the names that begin with M, you've got Noah, Gabriel, Nathan, Micah, Peter, Matthew, Isaac, Adam, Zach, Eden (ok, not quite), and Simon. I know biblical names are common, but Gabriel, Isaac and Micah are a bit beyond normal. I mean, Hiro's name has obvious meaning, but is there any meaning behind all the character names?
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