quote: in the same way that Christians in general (I'm guessing here) still consider Jews to be God's chosen people, while considering themselves heirs to the kingdom.
I don't understand that qualification. I don't particularly consider Jews to be God's chosen people (any more so than anybody else) or us to be heirs of the kingdom (any more so than anybody else) so I don't know if what you said was a big qualifier or not.
It sounds like it should be followed by and "in other words not really" but I don't think that is what you meant it to sound like.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Well, I don't know how other Christians feel about it. If you don't feel yourself to be an heir of God's kingdom, are you sure you are a Christian?
For a Mormon, Jews are absolutely still God's chosen people.
(Point of order: I P.S.ed my last post not seeing that the page had turned. Sorry about that.)
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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From the fervor a lot of fundamentalist Christians show regarding our defense of Israel, I imagine many of them support the idea of "chosen people".
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:P.S. I guess the issue as I'd see it is that baptism is essential to being called a Christian in my view, so for Dagonee to say my baptism is invalid was the same as saying I wasn't Christian.
Which is fine if that's how you want to interpret it. Just realize that 1) it's not what I said, 2) it's not what I meant, and 3) that you say the same thing about us.
So why are you bitter are someone else doing what you do?
There's no call for bitterness from either of us. We believe different things. If I believed what you believed, I'd be baptized into the LDS church.
quote:To me, the words of the baptismal covenant have some weight even if said without authority, and more particularly, one's belief in Christ has effect. Part of the other thread was explaining that even though Mormons might say "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" we don't really mean it, since we have a heretical view of God. And I guess that's the difference.
pooka, are you trying to misinterpret everything I say? Because it does not appear that you are making any attempt to honestly interpret my posts in the other thread or this one.
When Mormons say "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" they mean something different than what Catholics and most Protestants mean. I made no comment at all about you "really mean[ing] it.
quote:We say you are apostates. You say we are heretics.
And apparently the latter makes you bitter, but we shouldn't be bitter about what you think because you exclude everyone.
Finally, you keep changing what it is making you bitter. You said it was my bringing it up when it wasn't necessary to my point, then never acknowledged that I only brought it up because you stated you didn't know how the Catholic Church treated Mormon baptisms.
You accused me of shutting down discussion.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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If it makes you feel any better, pooka, my non-denominational church doesn't think you need to be baptised at all. It's just an outward expression of your inner committment. But we take Communion symbolically, too.
Our laisez-faire take on it is that if you love God and you love Jesus, we're talking about the same thing. We don't agree with everything everyone else believes, but we don't care enough to get riled up about it, either.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Yeah, it wasn't Dagonee's intent to offend me, just as it wasn't OSC's intent to offend Catholics. I mean, he was probably just trying to offend Baptists at the time.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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That's it, I'm done with you on this pooka.
OSC made a factual error about Catholic beliefs. That's very different from you being bitter about others believing something that you also believe (with the roles switched, of course).
You clearly want to be offended. Be my guest. Just realize you're being offended by something you made up.
Edit: And for the record, I wasn't offended by OSC's article. In fact, I expressed admiration for it. I was a little depressed by the propagation of such a common misperception of Catholic beliefs.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:If it makes you feel any better, pooka, my non-denominational church doesn't think you need to be baptised at all. It's just an outward expression of your inner committment. But we take Communion symbolically, too.
Our laisez-faire take on it is that if you love God and you love Jesus, we're talking about the same thing. We don't agree with everything everyone else believes, but we don't care enough to get riled up about it, either.
I'm Baptist, and that's what I always got out of the baptismal ceremony as well: an outward expression of an inner commitment. It's a beautiful and touching expression, but it doesn't matter to one's salvation.
Same for all the rest of the little details - I mean, as long as you've got the whole "Jesus for my sins" thing going, the rest is really just icing on the cake.
Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2007
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There's clearly a tone I meant for my last post to have that didn't come across, in that I was agreeing that Dagonee didn't mean to offend me. Oh well. I really didn't think OSC was trying to offend Catholics, and I guess I'm glad to hear none were.
I've wondered a lot over the precise necessity of ordinances over the years. I guess I'm not in a very good position to discuss it at the moment, though.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Pooka, if your last post was meant to agree with Dag, you need to edit it because it came off extremely snarky. Personally, as someone with no dog in this fight (as I'm neither LDS nor Catholic) I think you have been incredibly rude and unreasonable in this thread toward Dag.
Edited because I cannot apparently tell the difference between "your" and "you're". And I is an English major too. Sad.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I just wanted to post that I'm ashamed of my behavior. I tried to apologize in the other thread before and I guess I wasn't sincere. I think you're a good guy, Dagonee, and I am sad we've never met in person. Since you're probably not going to see this here, I'll post it in the gossip thread on Sake.
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