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Author Topic: So ya my dad punched me in the face today.
TL
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Squicky, yes, I've read it. I read it last year when it occured. Incidentally, I've also been punched in the face by my father.

Anything's possible. I mean I'm not suggesting that I know for a fact that Blayne is telling the truth, here. But in terms of making conclusions about a situation based on the available evidence, I think it's a very dark thing, and a very arrogant thing, to accuse a kid of lying about being punched in the face by his father because the story doesn't seem to be consistent to you. To me, your so-called inconsistencies constitute nothing more than a shocking lack of imagination on your part, seemingly fueled by previous negative feelings about Blayne.

[Dont Know]

I'm inclined to give a guy the benefit of the doubt.

[ October 08, 2007, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: TL ]

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Morbo
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quote:
Originally posted by TL:
I'm inclined to give a guy the benefit of the doubt.

Me too. Inconsistencies can arise for many reasons, which none of us who are not on the scene can know about.

Good luck Blayne! I hope things get better.

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rollainm
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quote:
Originally posted by TL:
Squicky, yes, I've read it. I read it last year when it occured. Incidentally, I've also been punched in the face by my father.

Anything's possible. I mean I'm not suggesting that I know for a fact that Blayne is telling the truth, here. But in terms of making conclusions about a situation based on the available evidence, I think it's a very dark thing, and a very arrogant thing, to accuse a kid of lying about being punched in the face by his father because the story doesn't seem to be consistent to you. To me, your so-called inconsistencies constitute nothing more than a shocking lack of imagination on your part, seemingly fueled by previous negative feelings about Blayne.

[Dont Know]

I'm inclined to give a guy the benefit of the doubt.

Ditto.

edit: except that my dad's never punched me in the face.

[ October 08, 2007, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: rollainm ]

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
I assumed that somebody had bumped that old thread until I looked at the dates.

^^ I thought the same thing.
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Blayne Bradley
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I was intending to move out by the end of the year with a friend (whose parents were moving out to Ontario and he wants to stay in Quebec... not sure why) when I finished my computer science courses, when I figured I'ld have enough money to get me settled.

I do have a job now, I work weekends at the Customs college which is some 10 minutes away from me. What I am going to try to do is ask around my friends and see which ones are willing to let me move in if I give them enough notice.

As for paying expensives, while I am not explititly paying expensives I do however help them with their home business (setting up their booth at fairs, demolding ceramics, general cleanup etc) and we had come to an implied agreement that I'ld pay the difference between high speed internet and extreme high speed (which doesn't have bandwidth limits).

Btw Squicky I'm alot stronger then I thought, recent friendly rough housing with an Italian friend has shown that. (He spoiled the end of Heroes!!!!)

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Samprimary
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Apparently his 'implied agreements' involve the notion that he's occasionally allowed to attack you. Which, y'know, sets him up as a bad boss as well as a bad dad.

So the sooner there are no implicit agreements the better.

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Primal Curve
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Btw Squicky I'm alot stronger then I thought, recent friendly rough housing with an Italian friend has shown that. (He spoiled the end of Heroes!!!!)

No particular implication here, but, as a former wrestler, I can tell you that weight plays a significant factor in your ability to overpower someone. I can absolutely dominate someone half my weight no matter how strong they are and it's no credit to my particular strength or skill at wrestling. I'm just too much weight for that person to handle.

People my size who are athletes, though? Yeah, I'd get toasted in a New York minute.

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Rakeesh
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Wait a minute...Blayne, if it's a weekend gig you're working at, that doesn't really qualify as a job to be honest. In the real world of working adults that is.

Something you do for just a few hours a week is either just something you do on the side, a hobby, or a part-time job.

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MidnightBlue
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Last I heard he was a student, though, and being a full time student and having a full time job are somewhat mutually exclusive.
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Rakeesh
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They're really not, you know. I've done it. It's certainly not easy, though. But let's suppose that it's impossible given the job availability in his location (that IS a possibility). Two part-time jobs.

Dignity is worth a lot more than not paying interest on some student loans.

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erosomniac
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quote:
Originally posted by MidnightBlue:
Last I heard he was a student, though, and being a full time student and having a full time job are somewhat mutually exclusive.

LOL.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by MidnightBlue:
Last I heard he was a student, though, and being a full time student and having a full time job are somewhat mutually exclusive.

YES. I always knew that what I did would turn out to be strictly impossible.
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Sid Meier
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i have school 4 days a week and get home at roughly 7 PM each day, weekends i work from 8 am to 3 pm with no means of transportation to get anywhere else for any time.
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Rakeesh
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How far away do you work? Who works with you?
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El JT de Spang
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I bet you spend at least 20 hours a week playing video games, so I don't buy that you couldn't work more than you do for a second.

Of course, I know well that time spent advising Blayne is time wasted, because he'll ignore all the advice and then start another thread about his problems at home in the next 4 months.

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romanylass
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Move out, and try to to swear at your dad in the meantime.
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MrSquicky
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Blayne,
I've got to wonder, why didn't you move out or at least start planing to do so last year, when your dad punched you in the stomache so hard it left you gasping on the floor?

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Morbo
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edit: in response to El JT de Spang:
I didn't see any advice to ignore in your last post.
I would ignore overly simplistic advice also.
Move out.
Get a job.
Stop playing video games.

Certainly he should play less video games. But all of us have bad, timesucking habits we'd be well rid of. It's not easy to give up or cut back things you enjoy.

Would Blayne be better off if he lived elsewhere? Sure. But if he has to drop out of school when he's close to graduating to afford that, is it worth it?

He has a part-time job, school, and transportation issues.

I can just see the next wave of advice: get a new job and a car today, move out tomorrow.

edit: and Mr. Squicky is right: he should have planned to move out after the events of last year. But he didn't, for whatever reasons, and he's still stuck.

2nd edit: It occurred to me I criticized other's advice to Blayne as unnuanced without offering any of my own.
So: you should make plans to move out as quickly as possible without sacrificing your education. Ask for help locally: at school, at your church if you go, anybody who knows your situation and might help. Deal with the domestic violence as a family now before it gets worse.
Cut way back on the video games, it's pure escapism at this point.

Well, mine is not exactly teeming with nuance either. Good luck Blayne!

[ October 08, 2007, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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camus
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Blayne, anytime you live with another person (parents, friends, significant other), certain personal sacrifices need to be made in order to keep the peace. In this particular case, it seems like you are making fewer sacrifices than the people you are living with, your parents. Unless you are willing to either move out or contribute more to your shared living condition, you need to accept the fact that you need to make certain sacrifices, especially since you probably need your parents much more than they need you in the house. And up to this point, they have sacrificed much more for you than you have for them.

In regards to your dad punching you, if you are anything like me (and most kids), you know exactly what it takes (or the words to say) to hurt your parents or make them lose their temper. While your dad should never have punched you, if you chose your words in order to get a particular reaction, then I wouldn't say you were completely innocent either.

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guinevererobin
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I think your dad was a jackass to hit you. I hope you are able to move in with a friend, and willing to give up gaming or take a 2nd part time job to do so.

I was finanically independant at 18. I didn't have a car (I took the inter-campus shuttle, took the train, made friends with folks who had cars). I didn't have a cellphone. I didn't have some things that my peers took for granted, and I had worked hard/gotten lucky (full scholarship to college + room and board paid).

and I want my kids out of the house and independant at 18 someday too, because I was really proud of myself, and it greatly simplified things with my parents. I went home for summer break and such, and they bought me luxury things like new clothes and train tickets home (and eventually a cell phone when I was making enough money to pay the monthly bills), but they were things I could do without and there was always the "I can leave" option when I came home. We have a very good relationship. I highly recommend getting as far away from your parents as quickly as possible, whatever sacrifices that means making, so that they can see you as an adult, and so that you can have the pride in yourself of being one. Good luck!

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TheBlueShadow
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quote:
and I want my kids out of the house and independant at 18 someday too, because I was really proud of myself, and it greatly simplified things with my parents.
quote:
but they were things I could do without and there was always the "I can leave" option when I came home. We have a very good relationship. I highly recommend getting as far away from your parents as quickly as possible, whatever sacrifices that means making, so that they can see you as an adult, and so that you can have the pride in yourself of being one. Good luck!
Are you advising Blayne of this or everyone?

I don't think it has to be such a drastic measure for everyone.

I'm 19, I still live with my parents. I plan to until I finish college. They see me as an adult. I see myself as one.

An appropriate time to move out depends on the kid and the parents. If someone can't make the transition then moving out immediately would help. However, I don't see it as the only solution to becoming a functioning member of society.

Although, it does depend on having decent parents and being a responsible person. Unfortunately, it sounds as if Blayne's situation is bad on everyone's behalf and has passed any point of him being able to function within the household.

For those suggesting that he look for campus housing - it's probably a bit late for that. I know my school, at least, has a very long waiting list. So, unless he's already on it, it's probably not going to be an option.

Furthermore, if he really did hit you, you should have called the police.

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guinevererobin
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quote:
Are you advising Blayne of this or everyone?
I'm advising Blayne, because he obviously has some real family issues and needs the distance.

But yeah, I think it's a good thing to gain financial independance as soon as possible. Families are different, and kids' situations are different, but in my experience it was very rewarding to be out on my own. My friends who did the same thing, working and taking out loans to be independant, tell me they felt the same way. The parent/child dynamic has to undergo certain changes at some point, and becoming independant greatly speeds that change - especially if your parents have issues with it in the first place.

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pH
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I'm 22 and am living in a house my father owns while I attend grad school. I do have a job, but I use that money for day-to-day expenses, not tuition. I don't consider my education any less worthwhile or my experience any less rewarding, and I don't think that I have anything less to be proud of than someone who cuts all financial ties with family at 18. I think that saying everyone needs to be out the door and independent at 18 is....well, rather offensive.

-pH

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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
I don't think that I have anything less to be proud of than someone who cuts all financial ties with family at 18.
Seriously? You think that being financially independent at 18, something that you haven't done, is not something to be proud of at all?

I didn't do that either, and I do think that people who do that have something to be proud of. Something that I don't have.

I feel the same way about serving honorably in the military and giving birth naturally -- they aren't things that I think that everybody should do, but they are things to be proud of.

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pH
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I said that I don't think I have anything less to be proud of. In other words, I am not less of a person than someone who becomes financially independent at 18. Nor am I less of a person than someone who serves in the military or gives birth.

-pH

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El JT de Spang
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quote:
Originally posted by Morbo:
edit: in response to El JT de Spang:
I didn't see any advice to ignore in your last post.
I would ignore overly simplistic advice also.

That's cause there wasn't any. You don't have to pay very close attention to Hatrack to know that Blayne could build his own house with printouts of advice from Hatrackers that he's ignored over the last 3 years.

If you think that he ignores advice because it's overly simplistic then perhaps you'd be best off sitting this one out.

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Synesthesia
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I had no choice but to flounder for a while.
My grandmother ended up in a eldery apartment complex, then a home for the elderly.
I had no place to live and through luck got my own apartment.

Living with either of my parents wasn't an option and it was quite frustrating to live with my father back in 2001. Never again.

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TheBlueShadow
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quote:
I said that I don't think I have anything less to be proud of. In other words, I am not less of a person than someone who becomes financially independent at 18. Nor am I less of a person than someone who serves in the military or gives birth.
Agreed.
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mr_porteiro_head
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I'm having trouble imagining how anybody could disagree with that.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
I think that saying everyone needs to be out the door and independent at 18 is....well, rather offensive.
Who is saying that? I'm not saying that.

I am, however, saying that if an adult is going to be crowding up to the government/parental teat, so to speak, they should be willing to tolerate some conditions.

Simply put, everything after you're 18 and out of high school is, in my opinion, a gift.

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mr_porteiro_head
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I agree. And if you aren't willing to put up with the strings attached to a gift, you shouldn't accept the gift.
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MEC
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I'd recommend to most people to stay at home till they finish college if they can, it's easier and cheaper. I'm currently 22 (as of today [Wink] ) and I'm staying at home going to college. I plan to continue this until I can get on my feet with a job and have enough assets that I can support myself. I hope to complete this by the time I get my associates and I plan to transfer. Sometimes though it's not the case, for example Blayne's position.

Blayne, from what I've read it seems that you're in a very abusive and negative situation. Maybe I'm reading too deep into this but it seems like your father might have a drinking problem, if that is the case, you should get out of harms way, and also try and seek to resolve the situation.

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Morbo
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Happy Birthday MEC! [Party]
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msquared
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I have said this before and I am sure it will stoke the flames but here it goes: If my kid does not want to get out of the house by the time he is 18, I have not done my job right.

And I mean this in a good way. If he wants to do things, we have told him he can do them when he has his own place. He should not WANT to come back home to live with Mom and Dad.

When I changed colleges half way through my sophmore year, I moved back into my parents house. All of us wanted me out. They wanted me out, I wanted out. And I get along great with my parents and was not a trouble child. But I wanted my freedom and they wanted thiers. I went to school full time and worked a part time job to afford my place and my other expenses.

If your kids see you as more than a last case scenario, IMHO, you have not done it right.

msquared

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Itsame
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I completely agree with msquared. There is something odd if the kid doesn't want to get away from his parents enough to move.
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pH
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You honestly think there's something wrong with your child if he/she isn't ready to cut all financial ties with you at 18? I'm trying to find a way in which this is NOT offensive.

-pH

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Rakeesh
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If you can't find a way it's not offensive, you're not trying very hard at all.
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Leonide
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I'd be interested to hear an example scenario, Rakeesh.
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msquared
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And I did not say cut all financial ties. I said move out of the house.

My parents still paid for college, or at least they did until I realized I was wasting thier money and my time. Then I got a full time job and paid for everything myself. Then I got married and had a kid. Three years later I was working full time and going to school part time and raising my new born son.

If the purpose of parenting is to raise children to be self suficient grownups who are to be productive members of society, then why would they want to live at home, baring some medical condition? Why would I want them at home? My children are not the center of my life. My wife is.

Why do you associate all of this with money? Lots of people work and go to school. I don't OWE him anything past his 18th birthday. Not saying he isn't going to get it, but don't come around with some sense of entitlement.

When I lived at home for that 5-6 months I paid them rent, I did my own clothes, I would have cooked but my Mom is very particular about who is in her kitchen. I lived by their rules. I was 19 and understood that in thier house I was, at that age, a long term guest. I wanted a place where I could watch TV until all hours of the night, I could listen to my music when I wanted to, as loud as I wanted to. A place to call my own. Dress how I wanted to dress. I could not call their house my own.

Do not confuse what I and the kid should want with what might happen in an emergency. But he should not expect that he will live at home while he goes to school or after he graduates, or at least not for more than a few weeks at most. As long as we both know it is a transition, I am ok with it.

And in my opinion, any one who is not raising their kid to get to this mental place is doing thier kid a disservice.

msquared

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ketchupqueen
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I had not seen my dad for more than an hour at a time from the time I was 13 until I was 18, after a year of not seeing him at all.

So I was quite happy, although I did move out of my mom's house, to move in with my dad, and re-establish some kind of relationship.

furthermore, I had been in a, well, not-normal living situation, and needed to adjust before I got a job (I got a part-time job after a few months) or even considered school (I decided I didn't want to go, at least not right then.) There was no way I would have functioned living with someone not a member of my family.

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Itsame
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I am happy as long as people *try* to be self-sufficient productive members of society. The problem seems to be that my generation is too nihilistic.
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Mr.Funny
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Well. It's fine if kids live with their parents. As long as they don't stay in the shower too long!

*points at ad below*

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Itsame
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Woah! Considering the ad is random, it is a pretty big coincidence that I look down and that is what it is, and I have never seen it before.
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Morbo
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Google ads are not random, they are based on content of the webpage.
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Kama
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I've lived with my parents until I was 26, even though I had a full time job for the last 3 years of it. My mum wanted me to stay with them, and of course it was financially a better option for me that living on myself. Hard as it might be for any Western people to accept, I didn't even contribute to household expenses. [Wink] I did lend my parents business money, but they are supposed to give it back some time [Razz]

That said, I also think that Blayne should move out.

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AvidReader
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I did the old-timie girl thing and lived at home until I moved in with my boyfriend. (Yes, technically the truely old-time way would have involved a wedding. But in the olden days kids didn't come with baggage from their parents' divorces, either. We're working on it.)

I paid $100 rent, my car insurance, and any long distance calls I made. I did my own laundry and cleaned my room and bathroom. God I miss those days when that was all I had to do. Our apartment isn't that much bigger. Two extra rooms shouldn't add that much work.

If there's a good relationship at the base of it and the parents and child can respect each other, I don't see a problem with living at home. I have a friend who's nearly 30 years old and moved home when his dad got sick to help take care of the farm. No one thinks any less of him for it. Now, the friend who lives at home, has mommy clean up after him, cook for him, do his laundry, and still whines about how rough he has it...that's a different story. That's not healthy.

Blayne, if you're doing school full time, can you see about dorm expenses getting added to your grants/scholarships/loans? I loved the dorm at college for the brief time I went. I could walk to all my classes or take the bus. And we only forgot what time it was and had the music too loud too late the one time. There were a few little things that happened, but they were funny. Somebody ketchuped the stairwell one time. A gal set off the fire alarm by hanging a wire hanger on the sprinkler. Goofy stuff. Nothing like in the movies.

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katharina
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I was financially dependent on my dad until I was 24, but I moved out at 18. My brothers didn't, and the deal was that they had free board as long as they were in school. If they stopped school, then they had to pay rent.

I think Blayne should move out immediately, but if it were a better situation or if Blayne sounded like he was working toward something, then it might be different.

Mostly, it sounds like an utterly miserable living situation for everyone involved. That's when it's time to leave.

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camus
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quote:
And in my opinion, any one who is not raising their kid to get to this mental place is doing thier kid a disservice.
I'm pretty sure all parents want their children to get to that mental place. It's just that 18 is a pretty arbitrary number.
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msquared
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camus

I am not so sure abou that. I look around me, at my son's peers. I see parents who do not hold their kids responsible for their actions, do not make them work for what they want, make like easy for them. I see kids who think that work at a place like McDonald's is too good for them.

When my youngest came home with a mid term report card with a D in math, I did not call the teacher and complain about his grade. I asked my son why he had such a bad grade. I did not whine and bitch to the teacher/ principal about how he did, I told my son that his TV time was cut off until the grade came up.

msquared

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vonk
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Man, I was begging my parents to let me move out of the house at 16. I had to wait until college, and even then they made me live in a dorm for the first semester. I was probably financially dependent until about 20, as long as I was in school. Once I realized school wasn't for me I started refusing any money they offered, to the point of not having food when I couldn't work. I've also promised to pay back ~3k that they wasted on my schooling. This is almost certainly not the smartest way to go about things, but hey, stubborn, self-rightious pride makes a guy do silly things.
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