FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » So ya my dad punched me in the face today. (Page 3)

  This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8   
Author Topic: So ya my dad punched me in the face today.
Javert Hugo
Member
Member # 3980

 - posted      Profile for Javert Hugo   Email Javert Hugo         Edit/Delete Post 
My cousin has been pampered by his parents for ages. He took seven years to graduate form college in marketing - with his parents paying for everything the whole time. He works sporadically now, and his parents still pay for everything. He's moved out, but they pay his rent. My aunt works two jobs to pay for everything, and doesn't save much.

Now, she knows this isn't right. She knows something should be done, but she doesn't have the heart to cut them off. She longs for her 30-year-old son to be more independent, but his dad is fine with paying for him and she doesn't have the heart for that fight.

I think getting cut off would be the best thing in the world for him. I also think he would be dirt poor for a while, because he has a crappy resume and a lousy sense of entitlement. Still, better all around. And my aunt knows it. It's hard to do that, though, especially alone.

Also, she does it because the opposite happened to her. When she was 18, her parents divorced. Her mother didn't have the money to continue paying her tuition, and her father stopped because his new wife didn't want to. My sweet aunt went to college from a stable home with them paying for it and came home to a father who told her she couldn't stay there for the summer because the new wife didn't want her, and to a mother who was struggling to pay for her own life now and didn't have much to spare for my aunt. My aunt finished college at all because her boyfriend, now husband, paid for her tuition.

I KNOW that was horrible for her. I ache for her a little, because I know how much that particular two years of hell has shaped her life. She swore she'd never get divorced, no matter what, and she'd never leave her kids feeling so orphaned and homeless as she felt.

Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Javert Hugo
Member
Member # 3980

 - posted      Profile for Javert Hugo   Email Javert Hugo         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes. If someone is 24 and doesn't move out and doesn't have the ability, there should be a good reason. Good reasons certainly exist.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
camus
Member
Member # 8052

 - posted      Profile for camus   Email camus         Edit/Delete Post 
MS, I highly doubt that the parents you are observing truly want their children to suck at life.

I think having children that are capable of being independent at the age of 18 is a pretty good goal for parents to have, not a standard with which to judge a parent's desire for his children to be successful at life.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ClaudiaTherese
Member
Member # 923

 - posted      Profile for ClaudiaTherese           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by kojabu:
quote:
Originally posted by camus:
quote:
And in my opinion, any one who is not raising their kid to get to this mental place is doing thier kid a disservice.
I'm pretty sure all parents want their children to get to that mental place. It's just that 18 is a pretty arbitrary number.
Agreed. My sister who is 24 still lives at home, but there are a large number of reasons why that's the case. I'm going to assume that most of the statements being made in this thread are only in reference to those who have the ability to do so.
It is assumption being made, and it's good to recognize it's a big assumption.

For example, a young person with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder may well not be able to move out and live on his or her own. In many cases, such a person has severely limited executive functioning of the brain -- so while the person may look and act much like anyone else to the casual observer, the ability to plan, control impulses, and organize him- or herself just isn't there.

Such a person often isn't able to live on his or her own, yet given the typical history of a mother of a child with FASD (often -- though not always -- sexual and physical abuse) and a child with FASD (often a challenging child to raise, much more likely to be physically abused), for the young person to stay at home may not be safe or healthy.

We make a big assumption when we assume that all young people can and should be able to live on their own. In some cases, they have been brought into the world with challenges not of their own making which may severely limit their options.

Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kmbboots
Member
Member # 8576

 - posted      Profile for kmbboots   Email kmbboots         Edit/Delete Post 
I lived at home for a year after graduation at my parent's request. They needed the financial help of my paying rent while I was there.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
msquared
Member
Member # 4484

 - posted      Profile for msquared   Email msquared         Edit/Delete Post 
I said that there might be exceptions. Medical reasons I can understand. That probably affects about 2-5% of the population.

Camus, they may or may not want their kids to fail, I don't know. I just see the results. I see the kids get a job and quit the first day becuase the boss got upset they took a three hour lunch break. And the parent backs the kid up.


If the parents are actively preventing the child from learing what he/she needs to survive in the world, then yes, they are setting them up for failure.

If you are living at home and paying rent and such, I can give some leeway for. At least you are taking some financial responsibility for your life.

msquared

Posts: 1907 | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pH
Member
Member # 1350

 - posted      Profile for pH           Edit/Delete Post 
msquared, I don't think that those parents WANT their kids to fail. And not all parents who continue to financially support their children after 18 are coddling them in every possible way or keeping them from learning important life lessons or whatever else it is you think that they are missing out on. I don't think I'm a less capable human being because my parents support me while I'm in school. There are plenty of other Hatrackers here whose parents support/have supported them while they are in school, and they are intelligent, well-adjusted, responsible people.

-pH

Posts: 9057 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ClaudiaTherese
Member
Member # 923

 - posted      Profile for ClaudiaTherese           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by msquared:
I said that there might be exceptions. Medical reasons I can understand. That probably affects about 2-5% of the population.

If that number is true (I think it's actually higher, but we agree in principle), that means that of about the 30 or so young people posting here fairly regularly, it's likely that this would hold for at least one of them. We probably wouldn't know which one(s), given that many problems like FASD are not clearly diagnosed, and (regardless) that mental health challenges aren't very likely to be shared. [with notable exceptions, of course, but this tends to be uncommon, actually]

I don't disagree that having young people develop their own lives and take on adult responsibilities when the time comes is a good thing. I'm just wary of coming down hard on any given individual, knowing what I may not know, you know? [Smile]

Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I'd be interested to hear an example scenario, Rakeesh.
A scenario in which thinking there is something wrong or odd with a child who does not want to move out from their parent's home? Easy.

Consider the possibility that the parents feel that this is a deficiency of a relatively minor degree, like sloppiness or not excusing one's self after burping. I can think something is wrong without you getting offended over that, can I?

If I can't, exactly who has the problem here? Not me, I submit.

Another scenario: parent might think it is wrong or at least non-ideal that their child does not hunger to be entirely self-sufficient as quickly as possible. They don't hate their child, nor are they unwilling to assist until the child does feel that way, but still (and here's the big part) consider their job of rearing children incomplete.

And that, no matter how much anyone complains or argues about it, is what it comes down to. You're still being 'reared'* if your parents are taking care of you, as simple as that. If you get out of the house, run into some horrible luck and need to come back for awhile, that's a bit different. That's just running into some awful luck and needing the help of your family.

The truth is that as long as you are being reared by your parents then no, in fact, you're not as much of an adult as someone who is not. Being 'capable' by itself is worth squat.

*This is not some horrible, awful character flaw. 18 is, after all, an arbitrary line and since there are human beings involved, some people will be ready sooner (much, much sooner), and some later (much, much later). Unless you're living in a war zone or something, total self-sufficiency is not of paramount importance when you're 18. You can be an intelligent, capable, well-adjusted person without having total self-sufficiency.

What you can't have without it, though, is the claim to being a self-sufficient adult, as in charge of your own destiny as anyone can claim to be. All you've got is a claim to 'capability', and if you're going to make claims to capability, don't be surprised when someone asks, "Well why aren't you, then?"

Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
msquared
Member
Member # 4484

 - posted      Profile for msquared   Email msquared         Edit/Delete Post 
Correct. It is the 20 year old living at home, not in school, unemployed telling his parents "I am a grown up. You can't tell me what to do." Those parents have failed. And their last failure is not putting him out on the street.

msquared

Posts: 1907 | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ClaudiaTherese
Member
Member # 923

 - posted      Profile for ClaudiaTherese           Edit/Delete Post 
With appropriate caveats about capabilities, I'm sure.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post 
I was ready to move away from my parents at 16. I could have even moved in with a friend and supported myself. However my parents couldn't handle it, and weren't ready to let go. And because they couldn't handle it, I never brought it up, because I *wasn't* 18 yet so I had to get them to sign the work permits. They were threatening to refuse to sign the work permits as it was because they felt I was already too independent from them.

I called their bluff at 17 after a summer away on an internship when I had a good cushion of money in the bank. My dad at the dinner table came out with this whole "if you don't obey our rules you can leave" bit, because I was bickering with my brother. I said fine I will, and my mother hit the roof... and then again the not being 18 came back to bite me because they knew I still needed them to sign the work permits, and held it over me.

Since I had a full scholarship, the only thing they consistently paid for through my college years was my car insurance. And, we all knew that I could get a job and pay for that on my own if I had to, so they couldn't use that as a manipulation tool, particularly when I paid for most of the car myself.

I also had to throw a tantrum so they wouldn't count me on their income taxes as a dependent, after I was in college. I went home for one summer during which I went to school and worked full-time tutoring too and that summer was so miserable at home I never went back to live again.

In my case it must have been something in me being contrary, although it wasn't a conventional "rebellion" for sure. I wasn't going out and deliberately doing things they told me not to do. Because they tried so hard to control my life, I went about being independent in a responsible adult manner, with as little "rebellion" as possible, because I wanted to be an adult.

It still didn't go over well, but I did the best I could at the time.

AJ

Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post 
Also, in my case, now that I'm approaching a decade of hindsight, I realize that I made independence (and having a house of my own) so a part of my identity, that I really didn't know what to do once I achieved those goals, and since I've attained those goals, I've had to begin a process of figuring out who I am, all over again, because my identity was so caught up in actually being independent from my parents.
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
guinevererobin
Member
Member # 10753

 - posted      Profile for guinevererobin           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I said that I don't think I have anything less to be proud of. In other words, I am not less of a person than someone who becomes financially independent at 18. Nor am I less of a person than someone who serves in the military or gives birth
I don't think I ever said or implied otherwise...

However, I am proud of myself for having worked from the time I was 13 at getting a scholarship, and for becoming financially independant at 18. my friends had a similar experience. Families are different and have different situations - my parents could not pay for my tuition, and I was ready to live on my own. I was very happy. If you have parents who are able and happy to support you, and you're happy, then very well. That's obviously not the situation in Blayne's case, and it isn't the case for a lot of people.

I agree with the one poster that said anything after 18 is a gift, though - parents definitely don't owe their kids anything beyond that, although it's nice to continue to help them if you can.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
camus
Member
Member # 8052

 - posted      Profile for camus   Email camus         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I agree with the one poster that said anything after 18 is a gift, though - parents definitely don't owe their kids anything beyond that
Why? What's so magical about that specific date, as opposed to the day before or the day after?
Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by pH:
I don't think I'm a less capable human being because my parents support me while I'm in school.

Are you capable of making it on your own? Maybe you are, but you can't know that.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dkw
Member
Member # 3264

 - posted      Profile for dkw   Email dkw         Edit/Delete Post 
Particularly when most kids turn 18 while they are still seniors in high school. I would think that the September after high school graduation would be a more logical "move out" date.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by camus:
quote:
And in my opinion, any one who is not raising their kid to get to this mental place is doing thier kid a disservice.
I'm pretty sure all parents want their children to get to that mental place. It's just that 18 is a pretty arbitrary number.
I'm not singling out this post for any special reason, other than that it is similar to a number of posts here that really generalise quite ruthlessly from American parenting culture to "all parents" or "anyone".

For example, in many cultures families expect their children to have much closer ties to their parents, living together after reaching the age of majority, sometimes even after getting married. In some cultures, children are expected to take care of their parents.

Example: link

quote:
Staying in school longer and difficulty finding a stable, full-time job are historical reasons behind a trend that has been on the upswing for the last two decades. But experts believe the most recent rise has been in large part fuelled by shifting family values -- both traditional and liberal.

On the one hand, newcomers to Canada often expect their children to remain in the family home until they marry, said Marc Molgat, a sociology professor at the University of Ottawa. But on the other, he said, baby boomers often have a relationship with their adolescent and adult children that is more akin to friendship compared to past generations.

...

Darlene Wang, a 31-year-old Toronto investment advisor and entrepreneur, said both family values and a hard-nosed business sense have kept her living in her parents home all these years.

"I'm Chinese and it's really cultural for us to stay at home until we are ready to be married and then we literally leave our family's home to go to our new home," said Ms. Wang who is engaged to be married in 2008.

She has put her earnings from her successful career in finance toward the purchase of several income properties, her own business ventures and investments.


Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
msquared
Member
Member # 4484

 - posted      Profile for msquared   Email msquared         Edit/Delete Post 
Oh the women's movement will love to hear that. "I am going to live with my family until I, or they, find someone to take care of me." Many of those cultures also have arranged marriages, is that how we want it to go?

dkw, you are a voice of reason when I am on my soap box. I agree, the shift should come after the senior year. My oldest will turn 18 in Oct. of his senior year. I have no plans on kicking him out until may at the earliest, maybe even June. [Smile]

msquared

Posts: 1907 | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
I lived with my father until I got married. I'm sure others here did the same.

I don't think belittling people for that is a wise choice.

Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
msquared
Member
Member # 4484

 - posted      Profile for msquared   Email msquared         Edit/Delete Post 
KQ
I did not think I was belittling any one here. I was just making an observation as to the cultural thing mentioned in the link above.

My wife did the same. I just don't think it should be the norm or expected that a woman should stay with her parents until she gets married. My wife and I waited for 4 years to get married so that she could finish her degree at a school that was 900 miles away. We went months with out seeing each other. She had summer jobs when she was here on break. She had a job within months of graduating, one she still has.

But part of me thinks it might have been better for her to live by herself, just as herself, for 6 months or a year.

msquared

Posts: 1907 | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Javert Hugo
Member
Member # 3980

 - posted      Profile for Javert Hugo   Email Javert Hugo         Edit/Delete Post 
You got married at 18, right? Maybe 19?

There's a big difference between staying at home until getting married at when you're still 18 at the time and living at home for ten years until you get married at 28.

The whole idea of needing to be taken care of when you are a capable adult and have been for years is a little shameful, I think.

Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post 
I think there is a difference between an adult *choosing* to live with one's folks (with their consent) and an adolescent that isn't capable of living elsewhere, staying with their folks so that it really isn't a "choice" in the same manner.

The latter may be in for a bit more criticism than the former due to lack of maturity, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the former.

In fact I would venture that at the point where it becomes a "choice" is where one actually becomes an adult.

AJ

Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
I got married when I was 20.

But if I had gotten married at 28, I might or might not have moved out. It would have depended on circumstances. I don't see it as "needing to be taken care of", but some of us do have a strong desire to live with family.

If my family had become unlivable I might have fulfilled my need to not live alone by finding roommates who could become good enough friends to fulfill a pseudo-familial role. (We're "adopters" in my family. We make friends that we consider family for life.)

Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Javert Hugo
Member
Member # 3980

 - posted      Profile for Javert Hugo   Email Javert Hugo         Edit/Delete Post 
AJ: I agree. The quoted story mentions that she chose to, and she invested the money she saved and cultivated a business. There's a big difference between that and living in the basement spending your money on video games.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Javert Hugo
Member
Member # 3980

 - posted      Profile for Javert Hugo   Email Javert Hugo         Edit/Delete Post 
Specifically, I'm thinking of financial independence. I'm not talking about living with roommates vs. living alone, but about paying your own rent. If you live with roommates, presumably you're paying your part of the rent and utilities.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
That's true.

Some of us had parents who would not accept rent.

So saving your money and using it for a socially acceptable, future-thinking purpose is probably a good alternative, in my opinion.

Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Javert Hugo
Member
Member # 3980

 - posted      Profile for Javert Hugo   Email Javert Hugo         Edit/Delete Post 
My dad made my brother pay rent when he wasn't in school, and then my dad put it all in a savings account and gave it back to him when he got home from his mission to use for tuition at school. The gravy train was cut off when we graduate from college or when we got married. Presumably we are full-fledged adults at that point and can take care of ourselves. If we can't, time to learn.

Basically, the idea was to prevent staying at home being the easy option - not allowing us to take the easy way out and have our parents pay the bills.

Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
And I don't think that's bad-- just that it's not necessarily bad either for parents to not charge children rent, as long as by doing so they are not enabling children delaying adulthood and maturity or enabling an emotionally and/or financially crippling habit (say, an addiction to gambling or drinking or crack.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
msquared
Member
Member # 4484

 - posted      Profile for msquared   Email msquared         Edit/Delete Post 
That's what I am talking about, the easy way out.

My brother is going through this with his 20 year old daughter. She complains how he has never been poor. He says "Right, I always had a job, even a part time one while in school." She thinks he is being mean becuase she dropped out of school, will not hold down a job, smokes and drinks and then will not let her stay rent free in an apartment building he owns. She can not be depended on to help around the house but has time to drive 6 hours each way to see her boyfriend.

(Just a note, this girl is not his bio kid. She is his wife's daughter from before they were married.)

msquared

Posts: 1907 | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
While I certainly think I, having been completely financially independent since 19 (sorry, not 18, I guess my parents screwed up!) was more prepared to handle a variety of financial situations than someone who, say, went to college on their parents' dime, I don't think that qualifies me as more adult than they are. More capable, probably - in some capacities. But I don't see how a person whose parents pay for school & living expenses for four years after high school is inherently less of an adult than someone who leaves at 18 and puts themselves through it.

It seems like such a silly way to define adulthood.

Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Javert Hugo
Member
Member # 3980

 - posted      Profile for Javert Hugo   Email Javert Hugo         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
just that it's not necessarily bad either for parents to not charge children rent, as long as by doing so they are not enabling children delaying adulthood and maturity
I think that by definition, adult children are delaying maturity when they do not have to be financially responsible for themselves.

School is different - going to school full-time is time-consuming and financially draining, and I think paying for board while someone is going to school is entirely reasonable.

For an adult kid who is NOT going to school full-time, if they are still financially dependent on their parents, there should be a very, very good reason.

Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
Define "financially responsible."

Paying for your own phone, internet, car insurance, food, car if you have one, and saving your money toward a future wedding, house payment, business, etc. (basically what your dad did for your brother)-- how is that not mature?

Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Javert Hugo
Member
Member # 3980

 - posted      Profile for Javert Hugo   Email Javert Hugo         Edit/Delete Post 
Room and board.

If someone else is feeding you and putting a roof over your head, you're not responsible for yourself yet.

Phone, car, internet - those are extras. Incredibly ubiquitous extras, but still extras. Paying for your own extras while someone else pays for the basics means you're still dependent.

Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
And if you're feeding yourself, and the money that would be rent goes toward a savings account, I still don't see the difference.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post 
I think that would come under the very, very good reason kq.
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kama
Member
Member # 3022

 - posted      Profile for Kama   Email Kama         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
It seems like such a silly way to define adulthood.
agreed.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
msquared
Member
Member # 4484

 - posted      Profile for msquared   Email msquared         Edit/Delete Post 
Basically paying for your own place, either renting or owning.

erosomniac, if someone is in school full time I view that as a full time job. But even then I would think that my kid would want to live on campus or away from home. Get exposed to new things, grow beyond what he knew as a child. Grow up even more. Challange your beliefs. Expand your view on life. Basically, if your parents are paying for college, that is your job. If they have a sense of entitlement that "Hey you owe me a college degree, not matter what I do" then they are not mature.

msquared

Posts: 1907 | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post 
Again, my emphasis is on "choice" as the way to define adulthood. If you *could* pay room and board live on your own and you and your parents mutually work out an arrangement where you don't, it is one thing.

If you are seemingly incapable of doing so, then I'm more inclined towards not calling you an "adult".

AJ

Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
camus
Member
Member # 8052

 - posted      Profile for camus   Email camus         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
If someone else is feeding you and putting a roof over your head, you're not responsible for yourself yet.
So a person that moves directly from a parent's home into a spouse's home is not personally responsible yet, even if they have successful and independent children and grandchildren?
Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by msquared:
Oh the women's movement will love to hear that. "I am going to live with my family until I, or they, find someone to take care of me." Many of those cultures also have arranged marriages, is that how we want it to go?

Hey, way to generalise and assume again.

I wasn't necessarily promoting that way of living. I was more annoyed with the factual error that I quoted of "all parents" thinking one particular way. They quite clearly do not, the phenomenon of kids being able to move out at 18 is a rather distinct consequence of living in a country with vast cheap expanses of land and a very individualistic outlook. Attitudes in Asia or even Europe are quite different. The attitude of their parents is even more mixed, even in more Western countries such as Italy.

Consider link

Be wary of generalising from the US to the rest of the world using phrases like "all parents" or "everyone".

As a side note: Yeah, it might be nice if everyone moved out at 18, but it would also be nice if everyone could live the way people in North America do with an average ecological footprint of 9.6gha per person versus 1.6 gha per person in China. Nevermind, that the environment would probably go up in smoke in a decade if (magically) everyone in China and India could suddenly live the way we do. The fact that not everyone thinks, nor wants to think the way we do might be a blessing in disguise.

Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by BannaOj:
Again, my emphasis is on "choice" as the way to define adulthood. If you *could* pay room and board live on your own and you and your parents mutually work out an arrangement where you don't, it is one thing.

If you are seemingly incapable of doing so, then I'm more inclined towards not calling you an "adult".

AJ

I would tend to agree with that.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
camus
Member
Member # 8052

 - posted      Profile for camus   Email camus         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Get exposed to new things, grow beyond what he knew as a child. Grow up even more. Challange your beliefs. Expand your view on life.
I don't see why a person needs to be financially independent before he can begin doing these things.

quote:
If they have a sense of entitlement that "Hey you owe me a college degree, not matter what I do" then they are not mature.
While I agree that this feeling of entitlement indicates a lack of maturity, it's important to note that not all people that live at home or receive financial aid from parents have this sense of entitlement.
Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Yeah, it might be nice if everyone moved out at 18, but it would also be nice if everyone could live the way people in North America do with an average ecological footprint of 9.6gha per person versus 1.6 gha per person in China.
*snort* Give them time, Mucus. What stops people in China from having an ecological footprint like that in the USA is not their thinking, you can be sure.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
msquared
Member
Member # 4484

 - posted      Profile for msquared   Email msquared         Edit/Delete Post 
Mucus

I never said all. And what was I assuming?

However, can you argue with the fact that the cultural view given there flies in the face of what the woman's movement has been all about? In this one case she stays because she wants to but in how many of these cultural situations is it forced on the woman?

AJ is s smart lady. I agree with her position as well. If the kid could support themself, but have come to an agreement with the parents about staying at home, then I do not have as much of a problem.

But you all know the kids who have no plans on leaving home. They don't work becuase Mom and Dad take care of everything. They want to have a party at Mom and Dad's house. They make enough money to keep them in cigs and beer and that is it. Those are the people I am talking about. And there may not be anyone like that on this site.

Or there may be.

msquared

Posts: 1907 | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
erosomniac
Member
Member # 6834

 - posted      Profile for erosomniac           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by msquared:
Mucus

I never said all. And what was I assuming?

However, can you argue with the fact that the cultural view given there flies in the face of what the woman's movement has been all about? In this one case she stays because she wants to but in how many of these cultural situations is it forced on the woman?

AJ is s smart lady. I agree with her position as well. If the kid could support themself, but have come to an agreement with the parents about staying at home, then I do not have as much of a problem.

But you all know the kids who have no plans on leaving home. They don't work becuase Mom and Dad take care of everything. They want to have a party at Mom and Dad's house. They make enough money to keep them in cigs and beer and that is it. Those are the people I am talking about. And there may not be anyone like that on this site.

Or there may be.

msquared

This would have been much more useful to say in the first place, rather than sweeping generalities about whether or not people who are financially dependent at 18 qualify as adults.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
Yup. China's doing their darndest to bring their per-capita ecological footprint up to our levels.

Of course, they don't call it that. They call it standard of living.

But really, it's the same thing.

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
All you've got is a claim to 'capability', and if you're going to make claims to capability, don't be surprised when someone asks, "Well why aren't you, then?"
90% of the people I know who are willingly staying with their parents into their mid twenties are doing so because it frees them up from expenses and makes life more fun and productive.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post 
Rakeesh: On one hand, I want to applaud you for pointing out that I am as yet too optimistic about human nature and that I should adjust my cynicism downwards, at least on environmental issues [Wink]

On the other hand, my quoted story of Darlene Wang demonstrates that there is at least some cultural difference that translates into living at home (and presumably, a smaller ecological footprint than the average) rather than immediately moving out when able, even when the ability to move out clearly exists.

Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2