quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: I was referring to his original background, Puffy, the one where he's a devout Catholic.
Well, the Ultimate characters are often divergent from their mainstream counterparts in some fairly radical ways.
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I'm dissapointed to find that Dumbledore was such a fool. Grindlewald is the Hitler of the Harry Potter world.
Lily was perceptive enough to regretfully cut ties with Snape when he was falling into the dark side. Dumbledore apparently had so little of a moral compass that he tossed aside, you know, all ethics and morality out of devotion to an unrequited crush.
His counterpart isn't Snape - it's Bellatrix Lestrange. That's pretty lame. I know that it's supposed to make him human instead of an all good figure, but that's pathetic.
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Not really. Who doesn't make mistakes when it comes to charming people? It's not pathetic, it's something almost anyone could do, especially when they are young. I doubt he's as bad as Bellatrix, at least he realized Grindlewald was bad news and that he didn't really want to be evil and enslave muggles.
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In the Ultimate universe, Kitty is dating Spiderman.
The Ultimate Colossus, Storm, Rogue, Nightcrawler, and Beast have NOTHING at all in common with their normal Marvelverse analogs.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Dumbledore apparently had so little of a moral compass that he tossed aside, you know, all ethics and morality out of devotion to an unrequited crush.
It's not just the crush, though. It's also that these ideas they're discussing seem like the solution to all his problems. I have to say, it seems really sad to me, because think how happy he must have been: He'd finally met someone who was his intellectual equal, for the first time ever, and it had begun to seem like all the things tying him down could be sorted out.
And I have to say, it was inevitable that he was going to realize what Grindelwald was, because Dumbledore's a good guy and he wasn't going to carry this whole Muggle-crushing thing out to the bitter end. It's just sad that it had to happen the way it did. And I don't think it's fair to compare him unfavorably with Lily, because she stayed friends with Snape for ages after she knew he was getting all wicked. Dumbledore only knew Grindelwald for what, two months?
And mercy, he was only seventeen. He was a kid.
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When asked why Dumbledore didn't seem to have had a love life, Rowling answered that it was because of the "great tragedy" of his life was that he had an unrequited devotion to Grindlewald.
If it was limited to being 17 and young and stupid, that would be both in keeping with the behavior of the other characters and it would make sense. Considering people are still sorting out their sexuality and crushes on friends are very normal at that age, it wouldn't even necessarily mean he was gay.
However, if "Because of an unrequited devotion to Grindlewald" is the answer to the question of why didn't 30-year-old or 50-year-old Dumbledore have a love life, that's where it gets just sad, and not sad in a "great tragedy" way - more like sad in a pathetic way.
I understand how thrilling it can be to meet someone with whom it seems like all your dreams will come true AND they make the sun come out, but when it doesn't work out or ever even get started, healthy people get over it. Eventually.
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I wasn't familiar with that particular stereotype, nope. And to be clear, I'm not suggesting that he was picked to be gay for political reasons. It's just, coupled with some of the other decisions being made by Marvel lately, I wonder.
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quote:Lily was perceptive enough to regretfully cut ties with Snape when he was falling into the dark side. Dumbledore apparently had so little of a moral compass that he tossed aside, you know, all ethics and morality out of devotion to an unrequited crush.
I hadn't thought of it that way. That does make things quite irritating. Not least because it means Dumbledore was full of crap when he was telling Harry about his background...and not least because, in all the rampant gossip-mongering Harry went through, no one gave a whiff of this.
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quote:I'm dissapointed to find that Dumbledore was such a fool. Grindlewald is the Hitler of the Harry Potter world.
Lily was perceptive enough to regretfully cut ties with Snape when he was falling into the dark side. Dumbledore apparently had so little of a moral compass that he tossed aside, you know, all ethics and morality out of devotion to an unrequited crush.
Would that really be that surprising? Keep in mind we are talking about a very young, just-out-of-school Dumbledore - not the man he would become many decades later.
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If it was kept to a teenage crush, not really. See my second post on this page, though - as an explanation for why Dumbledore NEVER had a love life, it isn't flattering to him. I'd think the same of anyone who pined for an unrequited teenage two-month crush. Snape's lifelong devotion to Lily is really kind of sad, but at least they were friends from childhood and it was shown to us how much she meant to him, how she was good (worthy), and how Snape was directly responsible for her death. None of the above applies to Grindlewald (except for the death, but that happened after Grindlewald opened concentration camps (!) ), and Dumbledore lived a whole lot longer.
I always figured Dumbledore was above the storm and drang of romantic relations - that's the price of being a great wizard. I am quite dissapointed to discover that he wasn't above it after all - he was just really, really bad at it.
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I don't think it is that hard to be excited by a charismatic person with radical ideas, especially when you're young and full of yourself, certain you can change the world. But he didn't follow that path blindly, and was eventually the one who stopped him.
I really don't understand why this is a big deal. DD was not what you'd call a venal person, I think, regardless of orientation.
I would be very suspicious of the aged wisdom of anyone who had never made a mistake.
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quote:I don't think it is that hard to be excited by a charismatic person with radical ideas, especially when you're young and full of yourself, certain you can change the world. But he didn't follow that path blindly, and was eventually the one who stopped him.
I really don't understand why this is a big deal. DD was not what you'd call a venal person, I think, regardless of orientation.
I would be very suspicious of the aged wisdom of anyone who had never made a mistake.
Really? Granted I haven't read it in awhile, but as I recall Dumbledore did follow that path quite blindly for quite awhile. It was only upon his sister's death that he finally wised up. And even then, when he stopped him, he waited a long time. Presumably lots of deaths can be laid at Dumbledore's doorstep.
But the thing that is irksome to me is that we already knew all of that, and that Dumbledore had very human and plausible explanations for it. Then, after the story is over, after he and Harry had a heart-to-heart in the train station of the afterlife, we find out that their heart-to-heart really wasn't, and that Dumbledore's talk of high misguided ideals was just a mask for a teenage crush.
Or if it wasn't, why keep it secret? Especially, y'know, in the afterlife?
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*laugh* I don't know what happened, but I logged out and logged back in and everything seems to be back to normal.
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"I'm dissapointed to find that Dumbledore was such a fool. Grindlewald is the Hitler of the Harry Potter world."
So? Hitler was so beloved by so many on this world that the French had to be overrun, the Brits had to be bombed&blockaded into poverty, and the Americans had to be attacked by (Hitler's ally) Japan and have Germany declare war on the US before Hitler became unpopular with the majority. Heck, the senior Bush borrowed "NewWorldOrder" from the dude.
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Maybe the way things turned out was the result of a massive time turner event from the future in which Dumbledore and Grindewald were successful. And Dumbledore's sister is, like, Joan Collins.
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