posted
So, I'm reading this thread thinking "I'm never buying those things for my kids" when I hear my seven-year-old, about 10 feet away, say "Grandma, these things are hard!"
Yep. Grandma brought her a pair of heelies.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by MattP: So, I'm reading this thread thinking "I'm never buying those things for my kids" when I hear my seven-year-old, about 10 feet away, say "Grandma, these things are hard!"
Yep. Grandma brought her a pair of heelies.
Guess it's too late to close the barn door now that the cow is out. Counter by asking grandma if she would like to look at some nursing homes with you as you value her input on the matter. Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Let me get this straight... ...you're surrounded by nutcases running around with guns, pervs sniffing through your underwear, voyeurs lookin' at what's under your underwear, and cretins drooling to anal probe ya... ...and the problem is a kid on heelies?
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Maybe if there was a Department of Heelie Security and the kids were more subtle about it, it wouldn't be a problem Posts: 349 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: Courage, my friend! You will figure out whether or not it is for you, regardless of my shortcomings in this area.
Oh, it's definitely for me. Though I have no doubt that there will be times that I will want to snap, get in the car, and drive to Reno for a month.
I just can't figure any other reason for being here (in the grand sense) than to pass on our genes. I picture humanity like a really long game of hot potato, and I want to help keep it in the air.
I know your choice is the right one for you, and I know it's not something you decided capriciously. However, I will continue to think that (as long as you stayed sane) you would make an outstanding parent. Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
When ever I hear someone complaining about parents who don't control their children, I am forced to think that they are clueless about kids. Yes parents shouldn't let their kids to careen about airports on wheels crashing into people. But it may be alot easier to say that than do it.
The problem is that kids have free will and sometimes they simply defy control of any kind. While there are parents that are negligent in teaching their kids proper behavior in public, there are also kids who simply defy such training. Without more details, its unfair to judge these parents.
Maybe Grandma gave the kid the heelies, and they've been regretting letting him wear them ever since he put them on. Maybe they tried to take the wheel off but found it couldn't be done without tools that aren't allowed in airports. Maybe they've told the kid that they are taking away his heelies but they don't think its right to make him go barefoot til they get home. Maybe they've already scolded this kid 100 times today for reckless heelying and don't know what to do next. Maybe they are torn between the public scene it will cause if they force the issue now, and letting him crash into people. Maybe they are opposed disciplining their kid in public and so they are waiting until they get home to discipline him. Maybe they've been on the road for 12 hours and are just too tired for another fight with their kid. And maybe they are negligent parents who just don't care if their kid hurts somebody.
The problem is that we just don't know what's going on until we've got more details. Some kids misbehave because of bad parenting and some kids misbehave despite excellent parenting.
[ November 21, 2007, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
It kind of annoys me when people blame grandparents for things. If you don't want your children to wear the shoes, don't let them. Give them back to grandma, or only let them wear them in circumstances you are comfortable with. Yeah, you may p*ss off your child, but that's a big part of being a parent sometimes.
I have two perspectives on this, as I am a grandmother myself. When my children were small and someone (not always a grandma) gave them a toy/food item/article of clothing that I didn't feel was appropriate (not age appropriate, against our family rules etc), I did not hesitate to enforce my rules. I remember one year, my girls had lost all of their crayons due to writing on the walls. I got fed up and threw them all away. They were allowed colored pencils, but not crayons. My mother (not knowing my new rule) bought them a huge box of crayons for Christmas (we were visiting at her home). My daughters enjoyed the crayons while we were at grandma's. When we went home after New Year's, the crayons went up in the closet until they were needed for school or other projects.
Now that I have a grandchild, I fully intend to spoil him as much as possible, but I also expect my daughter and son-in-law to maintain control/discipline. Of course, at my house, when I'm in charge, he'll get away with much more, but in public, or at his house, his mom and dad are the boss.
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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quote:It kind of annoys me when people blame grandparents for things.
Eh. It's not that big a deal. I wouldn't have bought them, but I don't feel that strongly about them that I'd forbid them from having a pair given by grandma.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Working in retail, I hate those shoes. They have been banned in a lot of public places, like malls, but people don't want to take the risk of having the parent complain so the kids get away with it too often.
I'm with you on that one...they drive me crazy. You should not let your kids bring those things into a grocery store.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
lol... I hate the dirty looks I used to get when my step-daughter was screeming at the top of her lungs in the grocery store...
I mean, seriously, I know it was annoying, but she was one of those kids that just screamed non-stop whenever she didn't get her way. There was truly NOTHING we could do about it. She's handicapped, and can't talk, so it's very difficult to reason with her. I understood that it was annoying people, but what did they really expect I'd be able to do.... I had to shop for groceries, and every time we'd go to the store she'd scream about something!
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:The problem is that we just don't know what's going on until we've got more details.
Rabbit, I understand what you're saying and I agree to some extent. However, I think it is important to distinguish between annoying behavior and dangerous behavior. I have infinite patience for annoying behavior from children in most public places. This includes screaming, tantrums, etc. I have zero patience for dangerous behavior from children in public places and I expect parents to prevent their children from posing a danger to themselves and others. There may be exceptions, but heelies in public places is not one.
Aerin has a large wound from her shoulder to her elbow. It's stapled and sewn shut. If a child in heelies was to bang into her, her wound could reopen. Setting aside the risk of infection and the horrible pain, she could literally bleed to death. Aerin deserves a reasonable expectation of safety when she goes out and children in heelies violates that.
quote:While there are parents that are negligent in teaching their kids proper behavior in public, there are also kids who simply defy such training. Without more details, its unfair to judge these parents.
It's perfectly fair. Those parents have made the choice to allow their child out in public when they KNOW he will be a danger to others. If your child can't behave safely, don't take him out. My child shouldn't be endangered or injured.
This especially bothers me in restaurants. I will never, ever allow Aerin to run around in a restaurant. I can't tell you how many close calls I had when I was waitressing. When you're balancing a heavy tray of scalding hot food on your shoulder and holding a stand in the other hand, it's almost impossible to maintain your balance when someone runs into you. If you know that you cannot prevent your child from running around, do not take him to a restaurant.
BTW, I have so little faith in the desire or ability of people to control their children that I'm not taking Aerin anywhere (except to the doctor) until she gets her staples and stitches out.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I agree- kids will be kids, but it's the parent's responsibility to reign them in when they pose a danger to themselves or others. Although I'm sure not everybody has thought about cases like Aerin's, there are still elderly, etc. people going around who could fall and break a hip if they were hit. (People in general should be more aware of cases like Aerin)
Posts: 944 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Gah! That kind of stuff makes me crazy! It is instilling in the kids the idea that the world revolves around them and that they needn't ever consider that there are other people in it.
Bad parents! Bah!
I was in a crowded market in Vienna when a girl of about 8 started swinging a rope above her head. The rope had to be about 5 feet long, and she just started swinging that thing without looking around or anything. It was just crazy. I did one of those matrix-style backbends to avoid it, and having no German,made a loud grunting sound that got her parents' attention. They did not apologize.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I'll take a closer look at the rest of the thread later.
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: When ever I hear someone complaining about parents who don't control their children, I am forced to think that they are clueless about kids. Yes parents shouldn't let their kids to careen about airports on wheels crashing into people. But it may be alot easier to say that than do it.
The problem is that kids have free will and sometimes they simply defy control of any kind. While there are parents that are negligent in teaching their kids proper behavior in public, there are also kids who simply defy such training. Without more details, its unfair to judge these parents.
Here are the details I know: the kid was knocking into people in a crowded place. The parents knew this. Either the parents allowed him to wear sporting equipment to the airport with no alternative footwear available, which is irresponsible, or they did not require the child to switch to the alternative footwear.
I'd bet a lot of money that I know as much about kids as you, Rabbit. I'm sure I don't know nearly as much as a parent, but I'm not a novice in this regard. I've been the one responsible for toddlers through junior high in public, crowded places many times. I've been the guy with a screaming child I can't soothe and seen the glares from other people. This situation is different.
Sometimes a child needs to be stopped- physically if necessary - from doing something that is very dangerous. What he was doing was very dangerous. He should have been stopped. And if they were incapable of stopping him because of the mechanics of the heelies, they should have planned better. Much better.
There elderly people using a cane, at least one person on crutches, people carrying babies, and people pushing strollers. This was two days before thanksgiving. It is absolutely irresponsible to allow your kid to rollerskate in that situation - especially when there's concrete evidence that he's out of control in his skating.
It's easy to keep this kid from crashing into people. Most heelies have easily removeable wheels. If those did not, then alternative footwear should have been available.
If he was doing this on a sidewalk, then there is every possibility he would have gone into the street.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Here are the details I know: the kid was knocking into people in a crowded place. The parents knew this. Either the parents allowed him to wear sporting equipment to the airport with no alternative footwear available, which is irresponsible, or they did not require the child to switch to the alternative footwear.
Sounds great in theory. In practice, when (let's imagine) they were running late to get out of the house to get to the airport, and the child insisted that the only shoes they could find were these, and was about to have a meltdown, and they couldn't figure out where all there other shoes ended up either ("Did you pack all his other shoes?" "I don't know! Did you? We're going to miss the plane!"), theory has a tendency to break down.
Which is not to say that they should have been allowing their child to careen off innocent passerby at the airport. Certainly they should not. But what is likely exhaustion and frustration (possibly mixed with not wanting to deal a kid tantrum in the middle of the airport) is not necessarily as simple or straightforward as some people seem to be implying. Which is what Rabbit said . . . we don't have the whole story.
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: And if they were incapable of stopping him because of the mechanics of the heelies, they should have planned better. Much better.
Sure. And one can only hope that next time they will. But "you should have planned better!" is a fairly useless statement after the fact.
To be clear, I cannot imagine getting my child those shoes, precisely because I can see all too clearly the sort of dangerous situation we're talking about being an eventual result. But I've too often had "Can't you control your children!" directed at me or at friends of mine (favorite response, when a friend couldn't get her baby to stop crying: "No. Did you want to try?") to be ok with that as a general statement.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Mine loves hers. She calls it her "tail" and likes to "pull mommy by her tail" (in reality, I'm firmly in control.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Can't you control your children!" directed at me or at friends of mine (favorite response, when a friend couldn't get her baby to stop crying: "No. Did you want to try?")
posted
This has nothing to do with the OP, in fact I happen to agree.
It is just that reading this thread in general has made me look toward the awful day when almost complete strangers can criticize my parenting style with that passion that only topics like religion, politics, and parenting bring up in people. Also, those complete strangers may even be completely right.
The only way I can even relate to the experience is when I first sat in my car after purchasing it. I was thinking "they let me do this?" I mean, sure the research takes a long time, I had driven a long time beforehand, and wrote a very big cheque (the biggest cheque I have written yet), but still the steps are relatively short compared to the responsibility of it all.
I'm not saying that there should be more steps (or not), but the thought that many other people could do this with just the same (or even less on average) preparation was just humbling.
If that day comes, I wonder if I'll have the same feeling when we go home from the hospital after a child is born thinking "they let me do this?" I hope not, I think.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I remember looking at my first daughter in the bassinet next to my bed about three or four hours after she was born, and having this overwhelming sense of... I guess fear. Because up until then, all I had to do to take care of her was take care of MYSELF, which I had been doing pretty well for, oh, at least 17 years. But now there was no way I could protect her from everything, things were going to hurt her, things were going to upset her, she was going to make bad choices, and I couldn't do anything but be there afterwards.
It was a very intense moment.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: When ever I hear someone complaining about parents who don't control their children, I am forced to think that they are clueless about kids. Yes parents shouldn't let their kids to careen about airports on wheels crashing into people. But it may be alot easier to say that than do it.
The problem is that kids have free will and sometimes they simply defy control of any kind. While there are parents that are negligent in teaching their kids proper behavior in public, there are also kids who simply defy such training. Without more details, its unfair to judge these parents... The problem is that we just don't know what's going on until we've got more details. Some kids misbehave because of bad parenting and some kids misbehave despite excellent parenting.
posted
Mucus, in my experience, that feeling of "oh my, why are they trusting me with this baby, this is crazy!" is very common for first time parents. This is a great reason to make sure you have a lot of experienced parents to turn to! Even if you would probably be fine, it sure seems to help the nerves.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: Mucus, in my experience, that feeling of "oh my, why are they trusting me with this baby, this is crazy!" is very common for first time parents.
Oh, yeah. Not everyone admits it, but I think almost every new parent must feel it. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I had the "what did I just do???" feeling when I first found out I was pregnant with my son. I had tried for him, had wanted him. I was no stranger to small children. I was the oldest child (and only girl) in a family of six kids.... the youngest of which was only 9 when I had my son. I had numerous other little cousins and stuff, all of whom I'd been babysitting since I was in jr. high. I'd taught bible school, and saturday school, and used to take my brothers everywhere. I was always the teenager toting around 3 to 5 little boys behind me, doing constant head counts.
Still, when I saw that second blue line, something in my stomach totally clenched. The only thought going through my mind for the first half hour was, "Oh sh*t, I wasn't REALLY ready for this."
I think having those sorts of, "woah, did this really happen?" feelings are normal any time you have a big life event. The point is to just deal with it the best you can.
And that goes back to the topic. I fully agree that some parents are just letting their children be totally recless. It's annoying, true, but unless you really know the situation it's hard to judge. We're all guilty of it to some extent, of course. The trick is to have patience, and remember we're all on earth together. If you see a kid careening through an airport in heelies, it's not out of place for anyone (even a passerby) to say, "Hey, young man, you could hurt someone. Please slow down." Maybe the embarassment of being called down by a stranger will get through where mom and dad's yipping didn't.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Well, its nice to know that I will have company when that long away nervousness comes to fruition Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Which is not to say that they should have been allowing their child to careen off innocent passerby at the airport. Certainly they should not. But what is likely exhaustion and frustration (possibly mixed with not wanting to deal a kid tantrum in the middle of the airport) is not necessarily as simple or straightforward as some people seem to be implying. Which is what Rabbit said . . . we don't have the whole story.
I agree. We do, however, have enough of the story to know that these parents should have done something else. I doubt you would excuse these parents if they weren't stopping the kid from running into traffic because they were running late or feared a tantrum. Assuming that you would not excuse them, then we are simply drawing a different line based on level of danger.
I think the level is quite high here, although clearly not traffic level. The parents were allowing their child to endanger himself and many other people. I think that's worthy of comment, an worthy of a statement that they shouldn't have done that.
quote:Sure. And one can only hope that next time they will. But "you should have planned better!" is a fairly useless statement after the fact.
So far we have no indication that these parents think they need to do anything different. I doubt they're reading this. I clearly didn't intend to alter their behavior by posting this.
quote:But I've too often had "Can't you control your children!" directed at me or at friends of mine (favorite response, when a friend couldn't get her baby to stop crying: "No. Did you want to try?") to be ok with that as a general statement.
Fine. I used it as the title of a particular story in which two parents who saw their kid run into three different people did NOTHING in response. And that was in a short stretch of the airport - I doubt it didn't happen earlier in the walk through the airport. Moreover, in my follow up to Rabbit's email, I made it clear that I was distinguishing this situation from other situations in which other people might have used that phrase. In fact, one of the situations I've distinguished it from is the precise one you mention here.
The fact that the sentiment is misused does not mean that every expression of that sentiment is invalid.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
My favorite response to unsolicited paranting advice:
A friend was in the grocery store when a stranger told them to not let their kid play with plastic shopping bags (which she was doing). In response, my friend took the bag, placed it right over his kid's head and says, "Look, she not dead yet!" Posts: 369 | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
LOL! You'll do fine, Syn. Kids drive you crazy sometimes. I'm still stressed whenever we go out because I'm constantly reminding my energetic boys to "watch out for grown ups" because they meander around talking and get in people's way. I usually correct them and offer a "sorry" to any inconvenienced adult. Most are nice. Occasionally, one snarls something mean or looks at us like they think the world really DOES revolve around them, and the minor inconvenience of being exposed to a child still undergoing social training should be punishable by death.
I usually give a happy sigh of relief, knowing that my sons will not become such a person, because I'm doing my job.
***
As an aside, kids DID drive me crazy. Post-partum depression and deep-seated need to have stare-into-space time had me occasionally enclosing the toddler in a play pen, slipping in a video and locking myself in the bathroom. Heh.
All I can say is I survived it with a lot of help and love from all concerned, and I wouldn't trade my kids for anything. Especially now that they are such interesting little people, constantly doing things to entertain me.
It was neat to see my brother in law and his wife with their small children, and realize, "Wow, I don't have to worry about my kids wandering into the street anymore." Also, no diapers. YAY!
We still don't get to go to movies whenever we want, or spend a whole weekend naked, but, you know, everything in life is a trade-off. It's just really cool to see my boys playing with their cousins, looking after them and being all responsible and stuff. I think "What a great kid" and feel humbled to have had a part in making sucha cool little person.
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