posted
I lost faith in religion a long time ago and instead I decided to place my faith in humanity. I believed that people were generally good and wanted to do good. I don't think I believe that anymore.
My boyfriend (of 6 months) and I broke up last week. It was the longest relationship I've had and for the first 5 months I thought without a doubt that we would get married. I trusted him more than I've trusted anybody. I started seeing flaws early on, but no deal breakers. He'd get insecure fairly easily, act a little awkward around people, and sometimes get a bit selfish and stubborn. But everyone has flaws, myself most certainly included, and it didn't worry me. Then he essentially stole from his former employer and I drew the line. I said I needed to be with an ethical person and if he couldn't do that, I was done. Looking back, I should have broken up at that point, but I was so madly in love with him that I just couldn't. He relented and said I was right and that he felt it was a constant battle with himself to do the right thing versus the easy/ selfish/ bad thing and that sometimes it didn't feel worth the trouble. My perception of him changed. I saw selfish behavior more often and was less forgiving about it. We fought pretty much daily for a month. We broke up last Monday. I missed him but I knew it was over. I felt ok with the idea that we just didn't have the same values and I could still care about him and appreciate him without being bitter.
Then I went to see him yesterday to exchange some remaining personal things and we started talking. He told me that he felt where he went wrong here was in not getting a more submissive girl. He said he wanted somebody that he could bend to his will and with whom things would always go the way he wanted them to. I said that sounded and awful lot like he wanted a doormat, and he said that's right, he wants a doormat.
I feel so revolted by that. It's one of the most disgusting things any body's ever told me about themselves. He explicitly doesn't want an equal as a mate- he wants an ego booster. Instead of trying to overcome his selfishness, he wants to cave in and get somebody that will worship him for it. And the warped thing is he thinks this makes him strong.
Maybe I was just naive before, but I thought people that thought this way were creeps I'd have nothing to do with- not the person that I loved and trusted. Now that I know that's how he sees things, a lot of things make so much more sense. But I just can't believe I never saw this. He spent Christmas with my family. My parents met his parents. I spent just about every minute that I wasn't at work with him for six months and I never saw him for what he was.
I feel worse about this than I did about the breakup. How well can you know another person? And how much do our perceptions about humanity blind us to what's really there to be seen?
I don't know what to put my faith in anymore.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Sounds like you're going through a tough time. Honestly, people are hard to read, and you had strong feelings for this guy. Don't beat yourself up over it.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
I think it's more likely that he feels stung by the breakup and is spinning tales to convince himself he's tough.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I was going to say something similar to Tom.
Though that kind of person most certainly does exist. I have a friend who fits that bill. He goes on about the difference between what he needs and what he wants. What he wants is an equal. What he needs is a doormat/ego booster. What he really needs is a sharp blow to his skull.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Okay, that sucks. That really does. I'm sorry for what you're going through. But - and sorry - but, you lost your faith in the good of humanity because of your private experience with one person?
And just because he says those nasty things doesn't mean that deep down that's what he really wants or is going to make him happy. It could represent something true, or it could for real be born from his intent to be awful to you. Could be a moment of true honesty. But despite feelings of it being a missing puzzle piece it can't be just taken as The Truth. Which is important to think about if you think this guy is a fundamentally awful creature he invaded your life all Trojan horse like.
"How well can you know another person?"
Absolutely never REALLY, you can't, never fully. Y'know?
Separately
"I believed that people were generally good and wanted to do good."
I think putting your faith in humanity is where it's at, but I can't agree with this phrasing. It's also kinda dangerous, as I think you mentioned.
"I believe in people and their potential for good"
More so something digable.
It's a good thing to trust people, and despite intimate tangles with unsavory folk it's a healthy thing to keep on doing. For one, trust is important because it's good for the people being trusted. Feelings like that are a gift, and it's not too good to stop feeding people just because an guy threw it back up in your face. Back your thing about really know people: you're never really going to know if a person Deserves trust or not, you can only go by your gut feeling and your so far dealings with them, and even trustworthy people can let you down.
Put your faith in your loved ones.
Edit: What Phanto, Tom, and Strider said.
Posts: 299 | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:What he really needs is a sharp blow to his skull.
I found part way through High School that this was true with most of the males in my school. That's why I got along with VERY few of them, and actually made better friends with the gender opposite me. It was just easier. And while Females do have their own problems, rarely in my experience are they the same ones that irritate me so bad with the guys.
Posts: 349 | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
in my experience a lot of men are awful to women, and a lot of women are awful to other women.
generalities obviously...but some of the cruelest friendships I've seen have been between women.
but this kind of talk obviously isn't helping Amanecer! Not all people are bad, and my really close loved ones and people here at Hatrack remind of that all the time.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Thank you guys for your responses. It’s possible he’s just being vitriolic. I’m sure that’s why it was said. But I think it’s very likely that it’s also true. He was always insecure and doing silly things to prop himself up in his mind. He needs to feel like a tough guy. I could see him being very happy with a powerless girl with no education who would be unendingly impressed with his college degree and good job and willing to see him as the ultimate authority.
So far as losing faith in people, I do feel like I’ve lost some. Flying Dracula Hair, I like your rephrasing of my statement. I think I could believe in people and their potential for good. But I would like to believe in people’s desire to be good, and I’m not so sure about that anymore. I mean, just about anybody you ask off the cuff would probably say they try to be a decent person. But when faced with a choice between getting what they want and doing something morally questionable, I think a lot of people take the easy, selfish route and rationalize away whatever was questionable. Everybody does that at times, but I guess I’m thinking that a lot more people than I suspected are very ok with doing that and don’t care about fighting against it.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Amanecer: So far as losing faith in people, I do feel like I’ve lost some. Flying Dracula Hair, I like your rephrasing of my statement. I think I could believe in people and their potential for good. But I would like to believe in people’s desire to be good, and I’m not so sure about that anymore. I mean, just about anybody you ask off the cuff would probably say they try to be a decent person. But when faced with a choice between getting what they want and doing something morally questionable, I think a lot of people take the easy, selfish route and rationalize away whatever was questionable.
I'm speaking from experience when I say that all of those feelings will just vanish the instant you find the next great boyfriend/girlfriend. I had these same thoughts running through my head for the longest time, but every once in awhile you'll meet that one person that makes up for all the wrong that everybody else is doing.
Posts: 1158 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I think it's more likely that he feels stung by the breakup and is spinning tales to convince himself he's tough.
That's what I was trying to write before I gave up a couple of hours ago because no matter how I phrased it, it sounded stupid. Don't pay attention to a bruised ego spouting bravado.
Good for you for moving on.
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I think it's more likely that he feels stung by the breakup and is spinning tales to convince himself he's tough.
I agree with Tom.
It sounds like he is bitter, at least to me, and that will do some weird things to people.
No offense intended, but how old are you? And how old is he? I know that age isn't always a great predictor of behavior, but in relationships it can be one of several defining factors, simply because of a lack of perspective.
It sounds like he has a lot of things he needs to work on, and growing up isn't easy.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
You should never base your opionion of anybody, much less humanity in general on what someone says right after a break-up. And certainly not what someone says to the person who just broke up with them.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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On the plus side, you're not a doormat. Not that this guy's opinion should matter, of course. But if you've managed to put up with all of us here, you're definitely not a doormat. Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Anamecer, I’m not sorry you broke up with that guy. I’m happy for you that you managed to learn enough about him to make an informed decision. Imagine learning that only after a few years, after an eventual marriage and possibly a few kids entered the picture!
A heartbreak is not a nice experience, and for that don’t worry, it will make you stronger in the future. I think you managed it quite well, as it comes out from this thread. Good for you.
And for the “loosing faith” issue, I have this recommendation: Don’t judge the potential of humanity, based on any other member than yourself (you can know yourself best). As long as you have the potential to be good and decent, the humanity has it. The way others behave is the result of not using that potential that they most surely have too.
That’s of course from an over-optimistic member of Humanity …
posted
Getting to know another human being is pretty hard...
My advice (to everyone, really) is that you should ask your friends and family what they think about your significant other, and you should listen to them. They will often be able to see character flaws and personality traits that you are blind to. It's so easy to love someone if you desire to fall in love with them... there's a huge difference between falling in love with how you see someone and falling in love with who they actually are.
Anyway, if you have friends and family that you love and trust, and who will be honest with you, ask them about your significant other, and take what they say seriously. It's very useful to get someone else's perspective on these things.
I'm sorry about your bad luck. I'm sure you'll find someone better.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
However, family and friends are not always the best indicator. My mom let herself get talked into marrying my dad by all her well-meaning loved ones. And while that was good for me and my sister, it wasn't good for either of them.
My advice is take your time. As you saw, no one can keep their company manners on forever. Who they really are comes out eventually. It will either be someone you can respect and love on a deeper level or it won't.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
People say rotten things when they are hurt and have been dumped. There may be some truth in what he said, but I find it likely that he said it precisely because he knew how much it would offend you.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by dkw: You should never base your opionion of anybody, much less humanity in general on what someone says right after a break-up. And certainly not what someone says to the person who just broke up with them.
quote:Originally posted by SoaPiNuReYe: I'm speaking from experience when I say that all of those feelings will just vanish the instant you find the next great boyfriend/girlfriend.
If I read her post correctly, I think this is actually what she is concerned about, that she could fall in love again, and in doing so completely blind herself to what a person is really like. again.
Although, Amanecer, I don't think you really have anything to worry about. The fact that you realized the truth about this guy makes you stronger, wiser, better prepared, and hopefully more confident in yourself for next time. While it's probably true that cynicism can protect you from heartache and letdown, it's really not a lot of fun. Cynicism is something I battle myself, and it's not something I would ever wish upon others. I think you miss out on a lot of good, wonderful things, and I don't think that's a fair tradeoff.
Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
So long as you continue to put your faith in Humanity, prepare for a life of disappointment. After all, humans are only human.
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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Amer--I am sorry that this person was not the special person you hoped and thought he should be. He's not the person he hopes and thinks he can be either, which explains the defensiveness and need for a doormat.
However, you have boosted my faith in Humanity. You got away from what could have been a lifetime of pain and injury. You overcame your dreams and desires for what could be, or what should be, and instead dove into the reality of what is. You didn't let him charm you into being that doormat.
Those doormats, submissive and all yielding, end up in the beaten wives homes, the shelters, the hospitals, and the grave.
Some men are fools. Some men are ego vampires who want to do no more than suck the lives out of all those around them, wives-children-anyone.
I've known too many who were not strong enough to break away from the suave and sexy ghouls who suck them dry. Remember, the only difference between a vampire and a leech is the vampire has a better tailor. (Sorry, I am getting carried away with the metaphor--Dracula as Abusive Husband).
Congratulations on getting away. It may hurt now, but it could have hurt a lot more later.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Thank you guys for all of the support. You guys are probably right that most of the vileness came from his wounded pride. But I think his frequent selfishness and complete lack of desire to improve wasn't a result of the breakup. It's a character flaw that he recognizes as harmful but doesn't care to even try to improve. What he said the other night depressed me, but I think it's that attitude that makes me lose faith.
quote:No offense intended, but how old are you? And how old is he?
I'm 22, he's 25.
quote:there's a huge difference between falling in love with how you see someone and falling in love with who they actually are.
This rings very true. In my family, marriages usually happen quickly. My parents were six weeks from the first date to married. My sister and brother-in-law were a little over three months. I always assumed that when you know, you know. Well I sure thought I knew. I guess this relationship has made me more wary and jaded, which is probably for the best.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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It’s possible he’s just being vitriolic. I’m sure that’s why it was said. But I think it’s very likely that it’s also true. He was always insecure and doing silly things to prop himself up in his mind. He needs to feel like a tough guy. I could see him being very happy with a powerless girl with no education who would be unendingly impressed with his college degree and good job and willing to see him as the ultimate authority.
