quote:Originally posted by aspectre: The Three Musketeers could defeat any three armored knights without resorting to their muskets.
It'd be an all or nothing fight. The musketeer would have greater maneuverability by virtue of being unarmored, yes, but if you know much about fencing, he'd have to put his weight behind the sword to puncture armor. (A thrust isn't simply a function of the arm - even with knife fighting you put your back and shoulders in to it and pivot your foot) If he missed his thrust, or even made a less than lethal blow, the knight could close the distance and grapple him, in which case having his neck and groin and face protected by armor as well as wearing armored gloves will make him the superior fighter.
And that's assuming the musketeer could get in place to make that thrust in the first place. He might be able to run faster* and move a bit better, but the knight's sword is light and very maneuverable, and at close range there wouldn't be much difference. You're thinking of it as a lumbering hulk barely able, which is the wrong image.
*I frequently run wearing 45+ lbs of armor. There's some speed lost, but not as much as you think. Especially when you train with it on a daily basis.
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One of the stranger things I see in these arguments is as if people believe that if you are wearing <x> pounds of armor, it slows your attacks down as if the full <x> pounds is hanging off of your attacking arm. Or something. So many people also seem reliably unaware of what an actually fit combatant is capable of doing in armor, that a knight is a 'lumbering oaf,' or are surprised to learn, yet again, that samurai armor was heavier than knight armor.
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It's a misconception started by Hollywood, specifically due a belief (at least in earlier years) that slow, dramatic sword fights (with the combatants frequently locking swords and glaring at each other in a slightly homoerotic fashion) were more interesting and easier to follow (and easier to shoot!) than at normal speed, coupled with the belief that medieval swords were heavy, clumsy chopping weapons. In reality, even 3 and a half foot longswords only averaged 3 lbs, and were perfectly balanced (using the hand as a fulcrum)... a knight could strike anything within arms reach really, really quickly. The advantage of using a bladed weapon is not every strike has to be a giant, lumbering two-handed chop (like in the movies), you could cut an unarmored opponent to shreds while absorbing his own blows with your armor.
Sam: I'd tell them, if they're inclined to going to the gym, to grab a weight vest, put 45 lbs on it, and strap it on. Then go and be amazed by the fact that they can curl or bench or row the exact same amount of weight.
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This is a great series to watch for those interested. Pay attention to just how quickly they move the blades, even going slowly for demonstration.
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quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Aaaah, ninjas. An entire iconic warrior invented out of whole cloth. Should we talk about them next? And how there's, generously, a single instance of a ninja-like agent actually accomplishing anything, ever, in all of history?
To give credit to ninjas, they were not invented out of whole cloth. They were a thing, but they were not much of a thing. And they were not much of an effective thing. They were actually kind of a really ineffectual and abandoned thing. Then later on, edo period theatre needed some ghosts in the machines to make fun silly stage things happen for dramatic effect and so they dressed people up in black pajamas and had them as theatrical elements in entirely fictional stories where they summoned great toads and blended into the black backdrop of fantastical stories.
Cut to the 19th century and stage ninjas become this myth that goddamned nerds everywhere think were a real goddamned thing that really ran around in black stage pajamas and killed people with laser death efficiency with things that are actually incredibly stupid and impractical, like throwing stars.
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Besides, a ninja making history kinda defeats the whole purpose of ninjary, don' it? Might as well have world famous secret agents. I mean if I had change the course of world history, I'd certainly never admit it.
quote:Originally posted by aspectre: Besides, a ninja making history kinda defeats the whole purpose of ninjary, don' it? Might as well have world famous secret agents. I mean if I had ever made world history, I'd certainly never admit it.
Secret agents reveal that sort of thing when they write their memoirs after retirement.
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Ninjas don't retire, BlackBlade. You can never retire from being the embodiment of flawless amazing eastern awesomeness.
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quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Ninjas don't retire, BlackBlade. You can never retire from being the embodiment of flawless amazing eastern awesomeness.
Sure, but secret agents blab all the time. It's just so frustrating to know you're responsible for bringing down the USSR but you can't brag about it. Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: One: Average Knight would be larger and more physically robust versus Average Samurai. Taller, too. Sorry, this is unambiguously a benefit in terms of martial combat. The supposed magical benefits of eastern martial combatants have, so far, been unable to match the benefit of just being physically larger and having larger reach. This becomes particularly important when we factor in how readily a melee scrap between two people will frequently end up resolved by grappling, usually on the ground. And anyone who romanticizes the fighting form of either knight or samurai to the extent that they believe that grappling and knockdowns won't end up being a significant occurring event in these modeled fights has an image of fights which has long ago become informed primarily by what choreographed cinema interpretations of fights are, as opposed to what we actually know about martial combat. Anyone who thinks the Average Samurai is going to compensate or surpass the physical difference using ~mystic eastern fighting arts~ that the clumsy overconfident oaf knight cannot match ... is steven.
You brought out many excellent points in your post, but can you cite scientific studies on this part?
While size is a huge benefit in hand to hand combat, and especially grappling, I don't think eastern fighting arts are by default magical or mystical at all. These days, a lot of the teaching is crappy and impractical, but a lot of it is also very effective. I'm rather familiar with the subject, having done two seasons of martial arts documentary series about the subject. We included both traditional and modern martial arts.
When two untrained opponents meet, size is extremely beneficial. But when a well-trained martial artists meets a non-trained or little-trained martial artist, the well-trained tends to have clear superiority, even if he is considerably smaller.
I'm a big guy. I know that a a much smaller BJJ practitioner with a few years of devoted practice (a couple of hours three times a week) would win me in a grappling match every time. No question about it.
Unfortunately our knowledge of Samurai training is scattered, so it's hard to say how good an average samurai was in martial arts combat. If there are good studies on the subject, I'm in interested in reading them.
On the other hand, we do know that the European non-weapon martial arts training was rather limited.
quote:Originally posted by Tuukka: You brought out many excellent points in your post, but can you cite scientific studies on this part?
I would hope I have no need to. Size is an unambiguous and direly significant benefit in physical fighting. There is a very straightforward reason why fighting sports utilize weight classes. When they don't, the field is not just preferenced to the heavyweight combatants, it's solely viable to heavyweight combatants. In spite of all the romantic mythologizing of eastern martial arts, there are none that are going to overturn the advantage of size versus a non-eastern practitioner. You're not going to have older and/or smaller shaolin monks and Master Ninjas utilizing a base eastern martial superiority of form to reign supreme over Junior dos Santos, or anything.
The point being discussed here involves arguments reliant on the idea that there was something demonstrably inherent to eastern martial arts that was, in practice, going to give them the edge in lethal armed or unarmed closed scrapping — which is what typically results in a fight when combatants close beyond weapon range and end up clutching at each other's bodies and arms. And it's ugly. It's very ugly. It's every romanticized concept of martial combat thrown right out the window and reduced to MMA-style grappling between adrenaline-soaked combatants desperately trying to bring knives or picks or arm-breaking holds to bear against someone they're locked against.
Which leads to: ...
quote:we do know that the European non-weapon martial arts training was rather limited.
We do not know this. If anything, we have indications of the exact opposite. The west has just as storied a history of martial combat, from at least Pankration onward; the only practical difference is that in the west, the mythologizing of unarmed combat forms ended and faded away. Even given thousands of years of decay and the loss to time of most of the training knowledge of western martial training from the timeframe of the knights, we still have manuscripts like the surviving works of Fiore dei Liberi — when we look at not only the armed combat but the abrazare / grappling manuals, we find out that (unsurprisingly) trained medieval western combatants and duelists and gladiators and so forth were well trained in, if you'll pardon my medieval french, The Shit That Goes Down When You Get Tangled Up With Your Opponent. These fighting styles are detailed in manuscripts often more technically complicated than their eastern equivalents, are specifically related to quarters-closed grappling between armed opponents, and when practiced and tested by dedicated HEMA reconstructionists, look just as elegant and deadly as oft-mythologized eastern arts.
Knight Vs. Samurai is just talking about two separate cultures with two cultural instances of privileged fighting class/caste, both possessing the same general level of practical and tested military grappling know-how — no testable 'obvious superiority' or 'obvious insufficiency' of either — in the same range of an objective plateau of the practical efficacy of these sorts of techniques in pursuit of the same goal ("he grabbed me; how do i shank him before he shanks me").
Which leaves, from a reasonable perspective, only the weight, height, and size difference to consider in the event of a common grapple or takedown scenario (This is ignoring the differences in armor, and remember — japanese armor is heavier and not quite as good). The disparity in size between knights and samurai is fairly easy to measure, considering that both wore armors that were specifically sized and fitted to them and can be measured today to compare averages. In conclusion, it is now two in the morning and I'm insane what is wrong with me.
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quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Aaaah, ninjas. An entire iconic warrior invented out of whole cloth. Should we talk about them next? And how there's, generously, a single instance of a ninja-like agent actually accomplishing anything, ever, in all of history?
To give credit to ninjas, they were not invented out of whole cloth. They were a thing, but they were not much of a thing. And they were not much of an effective thing. They were actually kind of a really ineffectual and abandoned thing. Then later on, edo period theatre needed some ghosts in the machines to make fun silly stage things happen for dramatic effect and so they dressed people up in black pajamas and had them as theatrical elements in entirely fictional stories where they summoned great toads and blended into the black backdrop of fantastical stories.
Cut to the 19th century and stage ninjas become this myth that goddamned nerds everywhere think were a real goddamned thing that really ran around in black stage pajamas and killed people with laser death efficiency with things that are actually incredibly stupid and impractical, like throwing stars.
Come on Samprimary, history only reads this way because ninjas didn't want the truth out. Did anyone ever see ninjas out and about assassinating people? No? Then they did their job well Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: It's every romanticized concept of martial combat thrown right out the window and reduced to MMA-style grappling between adrenaline-soaked combatants desperately trying to bring knives or picks or arm-breaking holds to bear against someone they're locked against.
(Links to a comic with slightly racy language, use your best judgment.)
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Blayne Bradley
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The ninja played an important role during the Sengoku Jidai, they were assassins, arsonists and spies and almost certainly dressed either as people who would go by unnoticed, like farmers or gardeners.
I forget if it were either Toyotomi Hideyoshi or Ieyasu Tokugawa who was allied with an actually pretty infamous Ninja-Pirate. Obviously they would fade into obscurity because well, the century of protracted conflict that necessated their use was well, over.
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There's actually an excellent documentary on Western and Asian sword fighting on Netflix. I'm forgetting the title but it talks extensively about the lost art of Western martial arts, and the rediscovery of manuals and relearning it.
Also, see the episode of Mythbusters on samurai swords. It was disappointing.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: But their ability to run on water was never forgotten.
Are you denying Jesus Christ?
quote: There's actually an excellent documentary on Western and Asian sword fighting on Netflix. I'm forgetting the title but it talks extensively about the lost art of Western martial arts, and the rediscovery of manuals and relearning it.
Also, see the episode of Mythbusters on samurai swords. It was disappointing.
Recalling from the Wiki and my memory I don't think they really had an episode on Samurai swords, only "can a sword cut another sword and can a sword gut the barrel off a gun"?
Not really an indicative episode on whether a Japanese Katana by say, Masamune is superior to a Toledo sword.
I would prefer the Katana to a Longsword under general situations due to the higher mobility afforded by a katana since you could have lighter armor and eschew a shield as more useful practically speaking. Presuming the quality of either weapon and the quality of the materials and craftmenship were equal for all practical purposes.
European weapons tended to be for piercing do to the prevalence of armor at the time with primary weapon being the mace to knock a knight unconcious to be ransomed. A tradition that never developed in Asia as the crossbowman was developed relatively early as a counter against nomadic cavalry.
There's this really awesome documentary on Musashi that details the parallel evolution of European and Asian weapons and tactics that saw a split on the theoretical and practical deployment of cavalry.
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I forget if it were either Toyotomi Hideyoshi or Ieyasu Tokugawa who was allied with an actually pretty infamous Ninja-Pirate.
e: Actually I made a slight mistake it was a Ninja-Samurai Hattori Hanzo, don't know why I thought Pirate. But considering the knee jerk and unnuanced nature of your response you are still wrong while I was half right.
And it was Tokugawa Ieyasu.
Probably because Pirates were quite endemic to the region during that period, though I can't seem to find any Samurai-Pirates or Ninja-Pirates or Ninja-Pirate-Samurai. Though considering what existed as "Bushido"* at the time being a Samurai and a Ninja is pretty amazing in of itself.
*Bushido as we know it didn't actually exist until about 1920ish, it was a result of the Japanese government wanting to instill "Samurai Values" into its soldiers after seeing them flee en mass to Russian shock charges during the Russo-Japanese War of 1904~ish.
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Blayne: Yes, but they also measured the swinging strength of the sword if wielded by a man. It just doesn't stack up. Much like a cable under tension can't slice a person in half or even cut off a limb in most cases.
There's also an episode where they stack traditional samurai armor up against a specially designed paper armor. While the paper armor was destroyed after extended use, initially both paper and traditional armor had the same stopping power, even when wet.
If I was dueling, I'd take whatever weapon was available. If I was in battle, a samurai sword would not be my weapon of choice. I'd take a gun. If I had to choose a non-gun, I wouldn't choose a sword, I'd choose a bow and arrow. And if I had to choose a melee weapon, it wouldn't be an authentic samurai sword from the period. I'd choose a polearm of some sort.
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Blayne Bradley
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I was choosing between a long sword and a samurai sword, your kinda shifting the parameters there, almost any weapon becomes preferable to any other weapon depending on circumstances. I was assuming you were IN the period of question and no access to fire arms or to particularly rarer weapons.
A polearm I believe requires significantly more training in order to achieve the requisite mobility, otherwise its too slow and cumbersome to fend off a charge by a sufficiently skilled swordsman, the reach advantage is negated by the lack of speed in to retracting it for the next strike or parry.
Just like how a bow and arrow ALSO likewise require significant amounts of training, I'ld say if you were valuing survival over all else pick a combat knife.
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OK. So your trained swordman is better than my peasant who is picking up a spear for the first time. Cool.
My trained spearman/men are going to defeat your trained swordsman/men.
edit: And I'm not shifting the parameters. I was detailing just how far down the list a samurai sword goes in terms of applicability.
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Blayne Bradley
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My argument is that a samurai sword is more versatile because it acts as both a sword and a shield and can do piercing. Which is why I would choose it over a longsword, also a long sword is meant to be complemented by heavy armor and protection, a samurai sword training tends to favor mobility from lighter armor which I argue is more important in all purpose situations.
Also spears are actually meant for women and peasants, there's a reason why phalanx charges were phased out in favor of men at arms, your thinking of a lance.
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: But considering the knee jerk and unnuanced nature of your response you are still wrong while I was half right.
This makes no sense, but it at least makes no sense in your particularly consistent way.
quote:My argument is that a samurai sword is more versatile because it acts as both a sword and a shield and can do piercing.
They are not more versatile. They're bad at lunges, they're too heavy, they're not as sturdy, they're awkwardly weighty, they're easier to break, and the curve is not a beneficial trait. In addition, it does not 'act as a sword and shield;' it acts as a sword. In terms of defensive capacity, it's actually worse than a longsword, which is lighter, better balanced, and easier to lever and block on the flat.
quote:Which is why I would choose it over a longsword, also a long sword is meant to be complemented by heavy armor and protection
No, it is not. It was a trend to pair longswords with heavy armor as such swords were trending obsolete, but they have no such intent design towards use with heavy armor.
quote:a samurai sword training tends to favor mobility from lighter armor which I argue is more important in all purpose situations.
Samurai armor is bulky and heavier on average than knight armor.
quote:Also spears are actually meant for women and peasants,
You don't actually believe this, do you? It would mean you know next to nothing about spears.
quote:there's a reason why phalanx charges were phased out in favor of men at arms, your thinking of a lance.
Lances are for mounted combat. Phalanx charges weren't phased out in favor of men at arms, they were put in decline by more mobile roman infantry tactics. Around *190 BC*, not the high medieval/renaissance period of the man at arms.
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Don't assume he's lying, Sam, that's disrespectful. I'm sure he believes it.
I mean, he's wrong. But I'm sure he believes it.
Also Blayne I assure you that while the level of skill needed to use a bow to its fullest is certainly high, the skill needed to hit a man sized target in the open at close range is not particularly high.
So if we're talking about some sort of made-up one-on-one fight and both parties just get a weapon and go, and bows are on the table, BB is 100% correct to opt for one of them over a melee weapon.
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Lying? Or joking? It's pretty straightforwardly wrong, to an extent that I have to ask if it's real or if it is an attempt at a joke.
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quote:In addition, it does not 'act as a sword and shield;' it acts as a sword. In terms of defensive capacity, it's actually worse than a longsword, which is lighter, better balanced, and easier to lever and block on the flat.
Oh you couldn't be more wrong! Have you seen Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? Did you see how many poisonous darts Li Mu Bai parried before one finally got through?
(I spent an hour looking for the clip on the intarwebs but to no avail)
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Look, until/unless a council of the most historically revered feudal Japanese warriors (of all stripes) and smiths are resurrected and have ample time to evaluate the situation, is there even the slightest chance that Blayne would acknowledge even a likelihood that European weaponry was superior, much less admit that it actually was?
Hell, I guess while we're waiting for that we could wait for Dan to pour forth praise for psychiatry, Orincoro to disavow impolite posting, or me to resist pokin' in situations like this;) They're all pretty damn unlikely.
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quote:Much like a cable under tension can't slice a person in half or even cut off a limb in most cases.
Just curious what you meant by this. In the context of cables used as weapons I'm sure you're right though I can't imagine when that comes up...
If you meant without restriction... well prestressing strands do this, in fact they'll slice through pretty much anything if someone or something screws up and and breaks one before it's fully set in concrete.
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Oh you couldn't be more wrong! Have you seen Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? Did you see how many poisonous darts Li Mu Bai parried before one finally got through?
(I spent an hour looking for the clip on the intarwebs but to no avail)
Green Destiny is not a katana, obligatory angry face here
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quote:Much like a cable under tension can't slice a person in half or even cut off a limb in most cases.
Just curious what you meant by this. In the context of cables used as weapons I'm sure you're right though I can't imagine when that comes up...
If you meant without restriction... well prestressing strands do this, in fact they'll slice through pretty much anything if someone or something screws up and and breaks one before it's fully set in concrete.
Hobbes
Not sure what to tell you. They put the cables under a whole lot of stress then allowed them to whip into a pig cadaver. It only bruised it.
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Samprimary: Li Mu Bai would have lived if he'd used a katana.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Look, until/unless a council of the most historically revered feudal Japanese warriors (of all stripes) and smiths are resurrected and have ample time to evaluate the situation, is there even the slightest chance that Blayne would acknowledge even a likelihood that European weaponry was superior, much less admit that it actually was?
Hell, I guess while we're waiting for that we could wait for Dan to pour forth praise for psychiatry, Orincoro to disavow impolite posting, or me to resist pokin' in situations like this;) They're all pretty damn unlikely.
Since the conversation has degenerated to laughably pathetic strawmen I take my leave.
quote: This makes no sense, but it at least makes no sense in your particularly consistent way.
You went and replied "Oh yeah, those exist in weeaboo fiction" which was actually wrong as there was in fact a Samurai-Ninja who served Tokugawa Ieyasu, so will you admit you were wrong?
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quote:Since the conversation has degenerated to laughably pathetic strawmen I take my leave.
Hehe, it is quite the straw man to suggest that it would be almost impossible to get you to acknowledge the possibility of Japanese or Chinese (maybe all of Asia, actually) on any front at all, much less awesome swordage.
Man, where do we come up with this stuff? Pulled completely out of thin air! (and man, smart money says you'll take back your leave in under twelve hours.)
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Actually no you are wrong.
e: Actually I made a slight mistake it was a Ninja-Samurai Hattori Hanzo, don't know why I thought Pirate. But considering the knee jerk and unnuanced nature of your response you are still wrong while I was half right.
And it was Tokugawa Ieyasu...at the time being a Samurai and a Ninja is pretty amazing in of itself.
Hattori Hanzō was also a master of the spear. Go figure.
Also, Guan Yu was way cooler than Hanzo. Most people only know the name Hanzo because of that Tarantino movie about Bill.
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Hell, I guess while we're waiting for that we could wait for Dan to pour forth praise for psychiatry, Orincoro to disavow impolite posting, or me to resist pokin' in situations like this;) They're all pretty damn unlikely. [/QB]
Actually I think that's vastly more likely than Blayne conceding anything re: Japanese weapons.
I have some strong opinions about certain aspects of psychiatry, but in general I still hold them tentatively and am open to being persuaded otherwise. Maybe not on the issue of psychiatric imprisonment, barring something world-shaking.
Anyway, I think if you replace "psychiatry" with like "socialism" or something then you'd be spot-on. That's an issue where I'm probably close to Blayne-levels of adamant self-righteousness. Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Not sure what to tell you. They put the cables under a whole lot of stress then allowed them to whip into a pig cadaver. It only bruised it.
Who is they? Pig cadaver makes it sound like the Mythbusters. Anyway, "whole lot of stress" can mean various things. A typical prestressing strand is 0.6" diameter and had about 45,000 pounds on it, or around 200,000 pounds per square inch. If it should get loose it rips through just about anything.
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: You went and replied "Oh yeah, those exist in weeaboo fiction" which was actually wrong as there was in fact a Samurai-Ninja who served Tokugawa Ieyasu, so will you admit you were wrong?
You claimed one was friends with a notorious 'ninja-pirate.' Now that you've corrected yourself and stated that you apparently meant 'samurai-ninja' I apparently have to admit I was wrong about ... something.
Like I said, your demands make no sense. But they make no sense in your very consistent ways.
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quote:Not sure what to tell you. They put the cables under a whole lot of stress then allowed them to whip into a pig cadaver. It only bruised it.
Who is they? Pig cadaver makes it sound like the Mythbusters. Anyway, "whole lot of stress" can mean various things. A typical prestressing strand is 0.6" diameter and had about 45,000 pounds on it, or around 200,000 pounds per square inch. If it should get loose it rips through just about anything.
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I thought samurai were mounted archers and that ninjas were just prostitutes who were paid to kill certain clients Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2008
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Interesting, I guess people's descriptions probably dramatized what happened then. Certainly the prestressing plant I toured had several accidents that resulted in lost limbs due to cable snaps but I wouldn't be surprised to learn it was "crushing" rather than clean cuts. Learned something new, always a good thing even if a bit grizzly.
posted
Well, I'm not sure a mythbusters test will cover a lot of potential cable snap injuries, but it does seem that that kind of thing is a lot less potentially deadly than I would have expected.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Well, I'm not sure a mythbusters test will cover a lot of potential cable snap injuries, but it does seem that that kind of thing is a lot less potentially deadly than I would have expected.
That's pretty much how I felt about it after watching the episode. Though it's always fun to watch one where you and the hosts both expect something, but can replicate it.
It was much the same reaction to the episode where they tried to fire guns into the water to see if being in the water made a difference, and surprisingly if you are about five feet under the surface almost nothing can get to you with enough force to penetrate.
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Many people have been cleaved in half or had limbs severed by mooring lines breaking (in the Navy). True, they're generally ropes (as opposed to cables). It's from the snapback of the crazy amounts of force placed by a drifting ship on a nylon rope.
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Actually no you are wrong.
e: Actually I made a slight mistake it was a Ninja-Samurai Hattori Hanzo, don't know why I thought Pirate. But considering the knee jerk and unnuanced nature of your response you are still wrong while I was half right.
And it was Tokugawa Ieyasu...at the time being a Samurai and a Ninja is pretty amazing in of itself.
Hattori Hanzō was also a master of the spear. Go figure.
Also, Guan Yu was way cooler than Hanzo. Most people only know the name Hanzo because of that Tarantino movie about Bill.
Guan Yu? He's cool, but still doesn't hold a candle to Lu Bu. Then again....
Lu Bu: I am the greatest warrior of all time! Nothing can beat me!! Guan Yu: Hey look! It's a puppy! Lu Bu: I don't fall for that. Guan Yu: Three Headed monkey? Lu Bu: Nope. Guan Yu: Giant Talking beard with a dragon tail? Lu Bu: ah-ah. Guan Yu: Eva Longoria? Lu Bu: WHERE!?!??! *turns around* Guan Yu: *kills lu bu*
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Can't let this idle, have to keep the ancient combat controversy flowing:
- If you have to duel and are forced to choose a sword, don't choose a katana or a longsword. Choose a smallsword. as late era as you are allowed.
- If you can choose any melee weapon, choose a spear. they're way better than swords (length, control, speed, almost everything) and they're much, much easier to learn to use effectively.
- no seriously swords are junk compared to spears
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