quote: Eliot Spitzer's role in a prostitution scandal grew out of a public corruption inquiry triggered by his movement of large amounts of cash from several bank accounts to one that operated by a call-girl ring, a law enforcement official said Tuesday.
I'd still like to see more details on what triggered the investigation, or I guess to be more specific, what are the rules or guidelines for what constitutes a suspicious transfer? And how did it get from that to uncovering the links in the prostitution ring?
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posted
Given all the details that have dropped, it is pretty easy to make a solid guess. Multiple, near-in-time funds transfers from accounts controlled by the same account holder in amounts individually below the required transaction reporting amount, but in total above it.
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posted
Man, it really reads like you're looking for a way for Gov. Spitzer to be to some extent a victim here, Lyrhawn.
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posted
I think it is because politics as a career attracts risk takers and thrill seekers. I'm not surprised that in addition to the "clean" thrills and risks of competing for a high-profile job that doesn't come with tenure, that kind of personality also seeks the risks and thrills of throwing it all away in pursuit of pleasure.
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Well, this is only a couple that have posted in this thread, but to them, sex is no more (or less!) important than making hamburgers. So there you have it. P.S. It just so happens that I have a husband with very complex and personal hamburger needs because of his fear of mad cow disease.
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posted
Just watched his Spitzer's statement moments ago.
No excuses, many apologies.
He resigned, effective Monday (per request of Lieutenant Governor, who wants the additional time for an orderly transition)
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quote:“I am deeply sorry that I did not live up to what was expected of me,” he said. “To every New Yorker, and to all those who believed in what I tried to stand for, I sincerely apologize.”
“Over the course of my public life, I have insisted — I believe correctly — that people regardless of their position or power take responsibility for their conduct,” he added. “I can and will ask no less of myself. For this reason, I am resigning from the office of governor.”
quote: “As I leave public life, I will first do what I need to do to help and heal myself and my family,” he said. “Then I will try once again, outside of politics, to serve the common good and to move toward the ideals and solutions which I believe can build a future of hope and opportunity for us and for our children.”
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Man, it really reads like you're looking for a way for Gov. Spitzer to be to some extent a victim here, Lyrhawn.
As I've said, I'm certainly not looking for a way to absolve him of his guilt. He's resigned, his career is likely over, and he'll have to cut some type of bargin to avoid serious charges. That's a done deal.
But none of that doesn't mean that something wasn't done improperly. The more I read the more it looks like that in fact is not the case, and it's very likely that it's all on the up and up, but there's no harm in looking into to it to make sure.
Edit to add: Dag - Thanks for the link! I'm rarely up that early to listen to NPR.
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posted
This may become the first sex scandal with it's own soundtrack-- ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Kristen!Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:As I've said, I'm certainly not looking for a way to absolve him of his guilt.
I know you did, and I believe you. Even with those two things, though, I'm just saying that's how it comes off, to me.
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posted
I heard on the radio that no deal has been reached with Spitzer regarding possible charges against him.
I agree with having some initial skepticism with regards to prosecutions of politicians, especially when it's cross party.
Most such investigations are on the up-and-up. There are special safeguards in place and everyone is pretty sensitive to the possible problems. However, the bare fact that an elected official is being charged with something that will likely cause him to resign is enough to call for some thought and investigation into whether the investigation was appropriate.
In this case, the things that sparked Lyrhawn's skepticism are common everyday occurrences, but they're not well known outside the law enforcement, banking, and legal communities. I'm glad NPR did that story.
I think resignation is especially appropriate because Spitzer worked a lot to enforce safeguards such as the banking transaction one. Many of the things he got settlements for were not so much per se wrongdoing but skirting the rules that allow potential wrongdoing to be monitored.
These rules are burdensome, costly, and sometimes difficult to understand. Spitzer's philosophy has been to enforce them vigorously. If we are going to have such rules, and take people's jobs or send them to prison when they violate them, the people who enforce them must be held just as accountable.
I'm not sure jail time is warranted here - it depends on a lot of details I just don't have. But he should be prosecuted if what we've heard is true.
***
On a side note, a lot of commentators are giving him grief for not being specific in his apologies. I think that's unfair. Just because I think he should be prosecuted doesn't mean he needs to compromise his defense with public admissions.
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posted
I'm not so sure the damage to his marriage and the pain and anguish he has caused his wife and family would really put this in the classification "victimless".
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posted
Well, Kristen is no victim-- she just made $1.4 million in 2 days in song downloads. Apparently I wasn't the only one to link to her Arnie St. website.
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(I take back my comment about the economics of attempting blackmail vs. continuing prostitution (even at rates of $4300/hour))
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I think it should have been allowed to remain private as well, but, I think he handled it with more grace than a lot of people are able to pull off. I'm a little surprised he answered directly questions on it, and his wife as well, rather than just giving a statement and then telling everyone to drop it.
He seems different than your average high level official, but it's something I can't really describe yet.
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quote:"I think we have a marriage like many Americans, maybe even like many of you," the governor told reporters. "Elected officials are really just reflections of the people we represent."
I mean, I guess I could take issue with him standing up and saying it's normal to have affairs. But they stayed together, which I think is very important. I have more respect for that than if someone falls in love with another person besides their spouse and divorces the spouse and marries their new love -- even if they never had extramarital sex in that process. But I think there are people who don't do either of these, who simply are faithful to one spouse throughout their life.
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quote:I have more respect for that than if someone falls in love with another person besides their spouse and divorces the spouse and marries their new love
posted
An open question to everyone, as it's something I'm trying to form my own answer to:
Who do you think you'd trust more, a politician who says he has no flaws, or the politician who openly admits his mistakes and problems?
I guess personally it'd matter what those specific flaws were, but I think my gut instinct is that, all people are flawed in some way and no one is perfect, so I'm probably more willing to trust someone like Paterson, who artfully divulges his flaws and offers no excuse other what really amounts to 'we're all human, and you didn't election a demi-god.' Much more so than I would be to elect someone who pretends to be perfect.
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quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: It's a shame that that sentiment generates a "Yikes."
I agree, though I'm not surprised that someone would respond with a yikes. Actually I'd say it really depends on the situation. If you're in a loveless marriage and fall for someone else, I don't think I'd lose respect for someone who got a divorce and remarried. It happens. But I think what pooka meant was that she has more respect for someone who works through their issues and tries to make their marriage work, rather than just giving up when things get rough to run off to something easier. And that's where I agree. But not every situation involving marriage and infidelity is identical.
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posted
Because I think that the opinion expressed by pooka that you quoted is one that even people who don't share it ought to be able to respect and understand more than is indicated by your "Yikes."
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posted
I can see that. What does that have to do with the sentiment "I have more respect for that than if someone falls in love with another person besides their spouse and divorces the spouse and marries their new love."
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(edited for clarity):How much fidelity to the marriage vow is involved in "falling in love with someone else, leaving your spouse, and marrying them"?
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quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I can see that. What does that have to do with the sentiment "I have more respect for that than if someone falls in love with another person besides their spouse and divorces the spouse and marries their new love."
What doesn't it have to do with that?
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posted
It has nothing to do with it, unless you're reading far more into her statement than was actually there.
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Let's say Fred and Ethel were married for 50 years, had children and raised them joyfully together, always did their best to love each other and create an environment of love. But Fred was in the military and while he was on an extended deployment at one point, got lonely and frequented a prostitute.
He confessed this indiscretion to his wife and they worked through it. They decided to stay together, not just for the children's sakes, but because they felt that they were too good together to give up over a few nights with a woman on the other side of the world.
Meanwhile, Ricky and Lucy were married for 3 years, and as often happens about 3 years in, the early wonder wears off and the little personal flaws become more pronounced. Ricky begins to feel the marriage is too much work for too little reward. He and Lucy begin to spend less time and energuy building a loving relationship and more time and energy either avoiding each other or arguing. Lucy grows distant and sex becomes more something they do to each other than time that they share. Meanwhile, Ricky's co-worker, Darlene genuinely admires him and, while they have certainly never been sexual, he spends more and more time with Darlene and less time and energy on Lucy because he feels appreciated and desired around Darlene. Lucy, feeling neglected, withdraws further. Ricky begins to have feelings for Darlene and she for him. Ricky eventually leaves Lucy for Darlene.
I submit that Fred and Ethel actually exhibited more fidelity to the marriage than Ricky and Lucy did, even if Ricky never sleeps with Darlene till they are married.
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posted
Yeah, that whole thing about fishy bank transactions-> IRS -> FBI etc. ?
There's a very good chance that's all crap. Infamous GOP hatchet man Roger Stone tipped off the FBI last year about Spitzer's possible use of callgirls. Apparently Stone went to the same strip-club the prostitutes were referred from, and picked it up via gossip.
We may have another Don Siegelman-like persecution here.
posted
No, I'm saying he was targeted by Dubya'sGang of Thieves beholden to the WallStreet "haves and have mores" displeased with Spitzer's prosecution of their own.
And that the intent was to smear through use of an extraordinary investigation of a man from a VERY wealthy family for transfering pocket change. Note that the clients in HookerGate, the WashintonMadame, HeidiFleis, the MayflowerMadam, etc ad nauseum were shielded not only from prosecution but from having the merest hint of their identities released to the public. Despite the fact that the investigators and prosecutors in those cases had the defendents' client lists. That the "Patriot"Act-abusing scumbags eventurally found "something, anything" does nothing to mitigate that intent to smear.
posted
What are you being silent about? Why everyone hates lawyers, or how you're just trying to give me a chance to talk about it?
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posted
Jim-Me has what my intent was. I notice the remark that was "yikesed" was a truncation of my original statement anyway. My point was that that fidelity can be broken without "technicalities." It also may or may not have described John McCain's second marriage, which is not enough for me to denounce him, but made me a little sad to learn of. What little I know, it was a very difficult time for all involved, so I make an effort not to judge.
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