Does the commandment to love thy neighbor say, "Love thy neighbor only because I tell you"?
Nope. I'm not saying the commandment is wrong, or that it implies that. I'm just saying that I see the "units of obedience" as possibly meaning "if you act as I tell you", not "if you act in the same direction as the commandment". You probably see the second, and I have absolutely no problem with measuring it that way. I just don't see it as obedience, that's all.
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I wish you could measure obedience in units of love, personally.
Curious, why? (For that matter, I'm still confused as to how one would go about defining units of love)
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quote:Originally posted by Javert: Only if it would be fair to say that you reject Allah, Vishnu, leprechauns and centaurs.
Do you reject those things, or do you just not believe they exist?
If you want to say that you reject leprechauns, I will have no problem saying I reject your god.
Like someone elsesaid, I guess it's a matter of semantics. I reject that leprechauns exist, though they might, or might once have. I don't simply reject them outright. To say "I can't reject your God because I can't reject something that doesn't exist..." that's just a tricky way of saying: "You believe in something that isn't real, and I can't even have a conversation with someone like you who believes in things like leprechauns. Your statements aren't even applicable to reality." Or something like that. It's obviously what you atheists believe. Let me guess, atheist isn't even an appropriate term because it implies that the starting point is theism? You're actually a realist, and I'm an a-realist, right?
It's all just word games designed to make yourself feel special. You can't change the fact that you cannot know if there is or is not a God, and so if you don't believe in Him and you're wrong, you have rejected Him. It makes you a little nervous to know that too, so you inflate yourselves to cover up your doubt. "I'm so smart, how could I possibly be wrong?" Or "Richard Dawkins and Charles Darwin were so smart, and I'm smart enough (as well as free from the thought-paralysis of religion) to recognize how smart they are that I know I'm not wrong."
If only that were true... Too bad for you it's not. You're not that smart, and neither is Dawkins or Gould.
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quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: I reject that leprechauns exist, though they might, or might once have. I don't simply reject them outright.
Huh? I don't get the distinction you're trying to draw.
quote: To say "I can't reject your God because I can't reject something that doesn't exist..." that's just a tricky way of saying: "You believe in something that isn't real, and I can't even have a conversation with someone like you who believes in things like leprechauns. Your statements aren't even applicable to reality."
The context was how someone like Dawkins would describe themselves. We're talking about self-descriptions, not a conversation. Atheists literally do believe that God, indeed all gods, do not exist. Therefore, most atheists would not describe themselves as "rejecting God." It just doesn't make sense as a personal descriptor.
That said, I have no idea why you would think atheists think thats an impassable barrier to conversation.
quote: It's all just word games designed to make yourself feel special.
Incorrect. Its a matter of precision.
As I said, an atheist that was raised without knowledge of the Christian God would doubtfully self-describe as "rejecting God." It just doesn't make sense. In fact, I myself bordered on this territory for much of my early life, being more familiar with Chinese ancestor worship or Buddhism than the Christian God (albeit still not very familiar).
quote: You can't change the fact that you cannot know if there is or is not a God, and so if you don't believe in Him and you're wrong, you have rejected Him.
*shrug* You can't change the fact that you cannot know if there are or are not leprechauns, and so if you don't believe in leprechauns and you're wrong, you have rejected leprechauns.
Feeling lucky?
quote:It makes you a little nervous to know that too, so you inflate yourselves to cover up your doubt. "I'm so smart, how could I possibly be wrong?"
Huh. I was unaware that you're so nervous about not getting your Lucky Charms
But seriously, whatever emotions you *guess* I'm feeling have much more to do with whatever baggage you're carrying than how I really feel. Maybe you should look into your own reasons as to why you have to make these kinds of assumptions about how people feel.
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quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: I reject that leprechauns exist, though they might, or might once have. I don't simply reject them outright.
Huh? I don't get the distinction you're trying to draw.
Hmm... now that I think about it, I don't think I do either.
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I'm not saying the commandment is wrong, or that it implies that. I'm just saying that I see the "units of obedience" as possibly meaning "if you act as I tell you", not "if you act in the same direction as the commandment". You probably see the second, and I have absolutely no problem with measuring it that way. I just don't see it as obedience, that's all.
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