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in the U.S. would you guess is dedicated to playing Vivaldi's Four Seasons?
I just tuned in to a classical station, and yup, that's what was on. It seems to me like one out of four times I turn on a classical station, that's what I'm going to hear.
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I'm not entirely sure. I usually tune to the local classical radio station on weekends, which seem to be devoted almost entirely to the Metropolitan Opera, which isn't usually my cup of tea.
I can say that Vivaldi's Four Seasons are often used as background music in movie settings involving a dinner, an upscale party, or an upscale dinner party...
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Classical stations are very very conservatively programmed. For my part, I don't see why that should be, but it's the same rules of broadcasting that get you "Top 40," and "Jack FM" or whatever other format that gets played. In truth, radio is just a very conservative medium in America.
Maybe it's something about the directionality of radio- it lends itself best to repeating emphatically, over and over, exactly the same things we have heard already many times. Because we don't give it out full attention, perhaps radio tends toward the only tools available to it to establish character and recognizability.
Think about NPR, the shows all have that feel to them that you recognize as NPR. The contributors of This American Life all have practically the same speaking voice- the beats are always the same even as content varies.
So eventually, the classical station is reduced to this slow and steady alternation between the conservative classical go-tos of the decade. This is why people in the 2000's are starting to listen to Mahler more and more, because starting somewhere in the last 25 years, the radio stations and orchestras of America started realizing that there was all this very recognizable and very safe music that the public could identify with and that would attract listeners- it started off as a bigger stretch, but thanks to his inclusion in soundtracks of late, Mahler is becoming the "safe" choice.
It's just another cycle though- soon it will be passe to include Mahler and Debussy in soundtracks, just like Beethoven and Mozart and Vivaldi are now clichéd. Then people will be on to Paris, Des Pres, Couperin, even Schoenberg in larger numbers.
For American music, Eliot Carter may eventually emerge as the "Robert Frost" of American music to replace Copland, who is already faded. He won't emerge because his music is necessarily superior in style or substance (I for one think it is all style over substance), but because he has written truck-loads of it, and it's all very safely confined to his little musical world. That is to say, Elliot Carter is the most conservative American composer alive, and that has helped him to become established in public consciousness. He's a conservative like Bach was a conservative- his interest is in the progression of his craft alone, and not his ideas.
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We have a classical network around here that seems to be a classical "Top 40" type station - they run the same pieces over and over. Seems like every time I turn the station on it's Pavane or L'apres-midi or Firebird or Beethoven's 5th or 1812 or 4 Seasons or William Tell or Finlandia or Valse Triste or Danse Macabre...
It's as though the program directors' only exposure to classical music is the pieces they played in high school orchestra. Posts: 324 | Registered: Mar 2008
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I listen to classical radio all the time, and yeah, it gets to be the same old stuff again and again. I keep hearing the overture to William Tell, without hearing the rest of it. There is more after the overture, right?
Four Seasons, yeah, that gets played a lot more often than once a season, I'm guessing.
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It seems like most political shows are intended to sway the middle majority of people, and aren't always intended for the Decideds on left or right.
I'm guessing classical radio people are trying to appeal to the majority of people who like listening to pleasant music, but aren't familiar with the less-common pieces.
Otherwise people will think, "Ah, it's as highbrow and inaccessable as I always feared" and turn back to their usual Lite Rock or Country or whatever station.
Do you think (really asking, not rhetorical) that classical radio stations would do better if they tried to appeal more to more sophisticated listeners?
I have thought that myself, when I was listening to NPR. 85% of the people I know who listen to NPR, are politically conservative, and yet NPR lists to the left. Wouldn't it be smarter for NPR to try to be more Right-y, since that's who's listening to it?
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: I keep hearing the overture to William Tell, without hearing the rest of it. There is more after the overture, right?
There's four hours of music after it... but the overture is the only part that is really radio-worthy. The whole opera is rarely performed because it is long and difficult- and it doesn't stand up so well in an audio-only format.
It's acceptable practice to play overtures as concert pieces alone, and in fact quite a few overtures start out or stay completely unrelated from an actual opera- Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream Overture is an example of this- it was not originally composed as a part of anything, and in its original form, it is a stand-alone piece.
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quote:Originally posted by Sachiko: Do you think (really asking, not rhetorical) that classical radio stations would do better if they tried to appeal more to more sophisticated listeners?
I have thought that myself, when I was listening to NPR. 85% of the people I know who listen to NPR, are politically conservative, and yet NPR lists to the left. Wouldn't it be smarter for NPR to try to be more Right-y, since that's who's listening to it?
You assume that your anecdotal evidence establishes a fact. I doubt that your assumption is correct- I don't think that your perception would match up well with the data- you may just know more self-identified conservatives than others do. You also live in one part of the country, where the demographics are going to be different- and NPR has nationally syndicated shows.
As the other question: no, I don't think classical radio is a growth market at all. People who are interested in classical music, or in modern classical music, will find avenues to discovering new music that are much better than radio. As I see it, if you are listening to classical radio, it is precisely for the reason stated, you want atmospheric and incidental music. Serious musicians and listeners will seek out more serious music- we can't expect everyone to like it or have the patience to listen to it on the radio.
This was not always the case, but as radio has changed as a medium, it has become less adventurous and less willing or able to diversify. The issue is just that listenership has changed completely in the life of radio, and now there is not a reliable audience for music based radio to follow any kind of program beyond the most grossly seasonal changes. You play French music in the spring, German music in the winter, Italian music in the fall, and so on. The days of serialized or programed schedules are gone for music radio, and classical radio- you simply can't hold on to an audience anyway.
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"I have thought that myself, when I was listening to NPR. 85% of the people I know who listen to NPR, are politically conservative, and yet NPR lists to the left. Wouldn't it be smarter for NPR to try to be more Right-y, since that's who's listening to it?"
You are a Mormon from Utah, right? Outside Mormon-land, the staunch conservatives hate NPR so bad they pretty much refuse to listen. That may not be true in every individual case, but I'd say it is mostly. Not everybody who knows/loves their classical music (for instance, several of the professors in the music department where I attended college were staunchly conservative Christians) is a liberal, but I'd say most lean in that direction.
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Just considering the concentration of grad programs in music in California, Massachusetts and New York, that sounds pretty accurate, at least if you're talking about 20th century music.
I'd say 19th century music and before doesn't enjoy favor with any particular political leaning.
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Nope, not a Mormon from Utah. A Mormon from Japan, California, and Washington, primarily.
Orincoro, I think you're right about who listens to the radio.
Steven, the staunch conservatives you know hated NPR?
I wonder if the conservatives I know aren't "staunch". Maybe that's why they didn't get the memo and are still listening to NPR. Or maybe it's because I'm used to being a conservative in largely liberal areas, and so I am accustomed to listening to "liberal" programming. (I've never really even thought that phrase before, "liberal programming" It smacks of the Manchurian Candidate, or something.)
Oh, well, either way, I am glad I've got my XM radio.
Posts: 575 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Um, yeah, most of the people I know who listen to NPR (especially the news/talk portions) are liberal. Very liberal. And most conservatives I know sneer at NPR, and listen to other stations for their news/talk shows. Though some of them enjoy Car Talk or one of NPR's game shows-- but they're quick to point out that that is the ONLY reason they listen to NPR, lest we think they are pinko commies. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Wow. Okay, I guess my family is the only bunch of conservatives I know who listens to NPR. I give, I give. Posts: 575 | Registered: Jan 2004
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I know a few who do, but it matters more what programs they listen to. There are a lot of left-leaning programs on NPR, but that doesn't mean This American Life or Car Talk are not acceptable.
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This American Life is just solidly written and well put together topical radio. If you refused to listen to something that was actually that good just because it was "liberal," then you'd just be missing out.
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When I was living in Biloxi, Mississippi without TV or friends or a library nearby I could use, NPR was my lifeline.
And, ironically, so was the classical music station there in Biloxi. It was a very humble station that offered substantial listener request hours.
We were there with the military, so I had very little in the way of possessions, so I used to call in all the time and request PDQ Bach, just to keep myself cheerful. And it sure helped.
Sorry--I did study music a great deal in school, and played and sang a great deal of it as well on various instruments. But I still came back to liking the oldie goodies. I admit it. I'm sheeple. Posts: 575 | Registered: Jan 2004
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"I'd say 19th century music and before doesn't enjoy favor with any particular political leaning."
Yeah, mostly I'd agree. The professors who taught me 20th century music history and theory seemed to be the more liberal ones, in general. However, I can think of at least one atonal composer friend who was a pretty conservative Christian. I do suspect him of being more liberal than he let on, though.
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"<-- not from Utah, very conservative, has listened to NPR ever since he can remember."
Yes, but which shows, my nizzle? I admit to liking most of the shows, but I really am not into all the obscure chamber music and etc. that they play in the evenings. Of course, I am a percussionist/timpanist by training, so if it doesn't at least have timpani, it has to be really good stuff for me to actively listen.
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quote:Originally posted by steven: "I'd say 19th century music and before doesn't enjoy favor with any particular political leaning."
Yeah, mostly I'd agree. The professors who taught me 20th century music history and theory seemed to be the more liberal ones, in general. However, I can think of at least one atonal composer friend who was a pretty conservative Christian. I do suspect him of being more liberal than he let on, though.
If he was really atonal, (this may depend on your age and his) then I can certainly believe it. It's a pretty big mistake to write off atonal composers (and I admit the lack of facility in that description) as liberal. They are actually usually more connected to Schoenberg and Wagner than to Stravinsky or Ravel, or Bartók, the real musical liberals of the 20th century.
The whole idea that atonal music was ever liberal is kind of silly when you actually look at the people who espoused it- Adorno, Webern, etc, not exactly a bunch of hippies- more like a bunch of very serious Germans. This is why the line is blurry in regards to "political leanings," just because someone is progressive, doesn't mean they're not traditional, and vice-versa.
If you look at atonal movements as reactions to the symbolist and cubist convergence in French an American music, they're really very conservative and elitist, working much harder to deny influences and nationality in any way. That may sound non-traditional, but it's a matter of what tradition- and atonal composers kind of fancied themselves as the sharp end of the artistic stick, rather than being off in some creative wasteland (that was for liberals).
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: <-- not from Utah, very conservative, has listened to NPR ever since he can remember.
I don't exactly self-identify either way. Care to tell us why, as a conservative, you do listen to NPR?
I personally would be baffled to find out that anybody wouldn't listen to NPR, because it isn't like every show hits you over the head with an ideology. But I only *really* listen to TAL, and that show is very fair in my view, always trying to be even handed.
On the other hand, even if I were a conservative, I'd be thrown off constantly by the bullheadedness of conservative radio personalities and their droning rhetoric. There's something very anti-creative about Bill O'reilly. He may be smart, but he doesn't exactly seem committed to using his brain for good.
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I do listen to NPR a lot, and sometimes the constant drumbeat of 'poor suffering me' gets to me, especially on TAL. More than that I cannot stand......how they....use long pauses....to try........and sound.................more dramatic. Gets annoying after a bit, and when they start off speaking in low pitch and have their voice rise up....pause for the drama....and then drop back down. TAL is terrible with it.
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quote:I don't exactly self-identify either way. Care to tell us why, as a conservative, you do listen to NPR?
First, because I don't listen to music on the radio much. For the most part, I prefer silence to a music radio station. Second, because out of all the talk shows on the radio, it's the one that least makes me want to strangle the person talking.
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"...out of all the talk shows on the radio, it's the one that least makes me want to strangle the person talking."
I used to listen to some conservative talk radio, Michael Savage in particular, but the blatant dishonesty there makes me turn it off. NPR does have its occasional moments where I roll my eyes at its level of bias, but not nearly as much as conservative talk radio. Savage actually had the gall to refer to a nonexistent throat cancer epidemic in order to find a concrete reason to criticize Bill Clinton, because in theory some strains of the human papilloma virus could slightly increase the chances of throat cancer if the virus is transferred to the throat during oral sex. He actually referred to "the epidemic". The epidemic. The epidemic. WTF? He has a moment like that almost every day. Blatant dishonesty. The man's about as sincere as a televangelist.
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Maybe that's why they didn't get the memo and are still listening to NPR. Or maybe it's because I'm used to being a conservative in largely liberal areas, and so I am accustomed to listening to "liberal" programming. (I've never really even thought that phrase before, "liberal programming" It smacks of the Manchurian Candidate, or something.)![[Wink]](wink.gif)
