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Author Topic: eating a balanced diet with little to no meat
Strider
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Some of you may remember a thread I started a while back on consuming ethically. While I haven't done as much as I had set my sites in since then, I have been changing my habits.

This is only going to focus on the food aspect of ethical consuming.

For a while now I've done things like try to do as much food shopping as possible at local farmers markets(meats, cheeses, fruits and veggies) and do more cooking at home(with less premade and packaged foods). I also haven't eaten fast food in months. But my meat consumption hasn't really changed much.

I recently watched this TED talk though and decided afterward to make a change. So for the last month I've been eating meat only once a week. I have no interest in going fully vegetarian but I would like to drastically cut down my reliance on meat.

I want to make sure that I'm eating a healthy balanced diet. I've never payed much attention to food groups. I eat relatively healthy naturally(lots of pasta, rice, potatoes, soups, salads, fruits and veggies, not much junk food), but i pay no attention whatsoever to the breakdown of carbs, fats, proteins, sodium, iron, etc...

I'm a bit worried that the drastic reduction in meat will hurt the intake of certain nutrients i should be getting.

So my question is I guess, should I be worried? And if so what should I do? I don't really want to take any supliments, I'd like to get everything I need from actual food. I've tried different vegetarian alternative chicken product, but i'm not too big a fan of either the taste or the consistency of it. I did recently try some fungus based meat alternatives and was pleasantly surprised with both the taste and the consistency of the food. But there's some part of me that thinks buying some pre-made packaged stuff like that(even if it's healthy) is sort of going against what I'm trying to do by changing my eating habits.

So does anyone have any thoughts or advice? And this is general advice i'm looking for, not just specifically related to the lack of meat in my diet.

[ June 12, 2008, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Strider ]

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steven
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I advise to cut down the carbs and increase the healthy fats like unrefined coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil, good-quality fresh fatty fish, etc. Grains, potatoes, etc. are not necessary for a healthy diet. Fruit is fine in moderation, particularly if it's good-quality fruit grown on good soil.
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Jhai
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Strider, it'd probably be worthwhile to buy or check out of the library a book on vegetarian nutrition, or a comprehensive vegetarian cookbook (which often have nutrition advice). You'll get much clearer and organized advice from books than you're likely to get on a forum. Plus the cookbook will have delicious food to try. Also look to cultures/cuisines where much less meat is consumed, such as Indian, and see what sort of other protein sources they use (lots of lentils, in the case of Indian).
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Noemon
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Good advice, Jhai.
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steven
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If during your research and reading, you find anything other than your own personal experience that disagrees with my above post, you need to question it highly. I speak from years of foolish adherence to extreme dietary philosophies. I have a lot of friends, online and RL, who have walked the same path, and come to the exact same conclusions that I have. Eat your fat, cut the carbs, and keep at least some fish and/or meat in your diet. Or, you can be stubborn and hard-headed, and reinvent the wheel, like I have. It's up to you. [Smile]
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Noemon
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The advice about healthy fats is certainly good. I don't know anything about unrefined coconut oil, but in general making sure that you're getting a lot of omega 3 fatty acids in your diet is a very good thing. Is unrefined coconut oil a source of them?
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Strider
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Jhai, do you personal experience with this at all? Any particular books you can recommend?
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Jhai
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Strider, I'm not a vegetarian by any means, but I enjoy eating a lot of vegetarian dishes, and I've studied nutrition a bit, both formally & on my own.

Generally, the more you restrict your food choices - and the more you move away from your "food comfort zone" - the more you need to be careful to make sure you're getting your nutritional requirements. By "food comfort zone" I mean the type of food you grew up on & have a general knowledge about. So a person who grew up in a vegetarian family would probably be able to just naturally eat the food they're used to, and be fine, but if you grew up in a meat & potatoes kind of family, you're probably less aware of the different dishes you can and should be eating to have a healthy diet. It sounds like your previous diet worked pretty well, but that you should probably do some research now that you've decided to adjust it so much.

I don't have any particular book to suggest for a vegetarian diet plan, but I'm sure there's a bunch of great ones out there. Your local librarian might be able to help guide you to some popular & time-tested books. I'd suggest generally that you try to find a thick "guidebook" written by someone credentialed in nutrition and avoid anything that sounds faddish.

I do highly, highly recommend Deborah Madison's Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone as a cookbook. It's massive, and besides the amazing recipes, it has lots of cooking tips. I've probably learned more about cooking (and how to use & experiment with all sorts of vegis) from this book than any other. For instance, if you've never used tofu much, the book walks you through the different types of tofu, different styles of cooking it, ways to combine it with different sauces to create wonderful dishes, and other books to look at if you want more ideas.

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steven
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"I don't know anything about unrefined coconut oil, but in general making sure that you're getting a lot of omega 3 fatty acids in your diet is a very good thing. Is unrefined coconut oil a source of them?"

AFAIK, according to my Google-fu, it doesn't have omega-3s or omega-6s, but many people have found it to be incredibly healing. Some have trouble digesting it, or digesting certain brands. It's the single best food I've found for controlling the tooth sensitivity that developed during my fruitarian days. It also speeds up the metabolism and promotes weight loss. However, it's not a panacea. Some brands can give some people loose stools, IME.

It has lots of medium-chain fatty acids, which is rare in nature, if I understand correctly, except for in mother's milk. It also has a lot of lauric acid, which is antibacterial. I know a lot of people who use coconut oil to stop candida overgrowth.

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dkw
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The New Laurel's Kitchen has an excellent nutrition guide for whole foods vegetarian cooking, including sections for special-needs categories like athletes, children, pregnant & nursing moms, etc. It also has a lot of good reading about ethical choices around food -- I think you would enjoy it.
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The Rabbit
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I was a vegetarian for quite a few years. I gave it up when I was diagnosed with Celiac because its really hard to a vegetarian (in the US) unless you can eat wheat.

That said, it was my experience that as long as I ate a good variety of things including whole grains, legumes and a variety of fruits and vegetables along with some dairy and eggs it was quiet easy to get balanced nutrition on a vegetarian diet. If you eliminateeggs and dairy its quite a bit harder since their are certain fatty acids that are hard to find except in animal products.

One rule of thumb I was told is to have colorful meals. If you are eating things with lots of different colors you are very likely getting balanced nutrition (assuming we are talking natural foods and not gummy bears.)

The primary thing I worked on as a vegetarian was variety. You are more likely to be getting proper nutrition if you have lots of variety in your diet than if you have a half dozen dishes that you eat all the time. For this, I recommend getting a variety of vegetarian cookbooks just for new ideas. If you are new at the vegetarian game you probably don't think of things made with eggplant or garbanzo beans, you may not even know about grains like quinoa and amaranth.

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The Rabbit
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One more bit of advice,

If you are eating a mostly vegetarian diet, resist the urge to gorge yourself on the occasional enormous steak. If you aren't regularly eating meat, your body will stop making some of the enzymes needed to digest meat. It will start back up again but not instantaneously so that enormous steak is going to just sit in your stomach making you feel awful for quite a while. When you do eat meat, go easy on it.

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Sterling
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Most of my vegetarian friends have told me that continuing to eat dairy eases the cut-off of the meat-digesting enzymes considerably.
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aspectre
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NewYorkTimes dining article on eating less meat. Think traditionally:
think of meat as a flavoring and as a condiment; not as the centerpiece of a meal.

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ketchupqueen
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We ate very little meat growing up. Meat was definitely usually an ingredient, not a centerpiece (except skinless chicken, which was sometimes a main dish, though often enough even that was a supplement to lots of vegetable protein.) Our mainstays were "complete protein" combinations; I know some say you don't need them but they're definitely more filling that way if nothing else. Beans and rice, beans and corn, beans and wheat, lentils and rice, split pea soup with whole-wheat bread, vegetable soup with whole wheat bread, etc. Eggs and milk are good sources of protein, too.
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BlueWizard
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In general, our protein (meat) requirements are much less than we typically eat. Consider most of the world's population doesn't base its diet on meat, meat is used more as a supplement.

What is important though is that the protein you do taking in is complete protein. This is were most beginner vegetarians fall down.

For example, Rice has protein, but only a limited range of amino acids. Beans have protein, but also have a limited range of amino acids. As it turns out, the amino acids that rice doesn't have, beans do have. So, we have the classic Mexican/Cajun Red Beans and Rice.

Though for a quick and easy combination protein, I use rice and lentils. Lentils are really small beans, and though soaking does improve the texture, they can be could with only a few minutes of pre-soak.

Now since you are still eating meat, just in smaller quantities, I don't think you should have any problems.

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ketchupqueen
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Legumes and rice is the most common protein combination in the world, I'm pretty sure (though others work too.)

I forgot to mention that I always eat at least one green and one other vegetable or fruit at each meal or I don't feel "complete."

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Tatiana
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The most important thing of all is to be sure you get enough protein. The first few times I went vegetarian, I would make it a couple of months, then I'd start to get sick, then I'd be craving a steak or something, eat some meat, and get well again. I wasn't getting enough protein. You really really really need to get enough protein.

If you're vegetarian, you have to count grams in order to be sure you get enough. If you make sure you have enough protein every day, day after day, then you won't get cravings for meat and you won't get sick. (Or that's how it worked for me.)

My dietician taught me to eat 0.8 g of protein per day per kg of body weight. People who are exercising and trying to add muscle should get 1.25 g of protein per day per kg of body weight. So if you weigh 110 lbs, divide by 2.2 to get 50 kg. Then multiply 50 x 1.25 (if you're trying to build muscle mass) and you get your daily requirements of protein, 63 g.

If you weigh 220 then that's 100 kg and you should get 125 g of protein per day (if you're trying to build muscle mass) or 80g a day just to be able to maintain your current muscle mass. Be sure to get that much every single day. If you skimp one day then you'll tend to do it more and more often, then you build up quite a deficiency and can't sustain your vegetarianism.

Vegetarian foods that contain protein are eggs, milk, and cheese, of course, but if you want to go vegan you can have beans and rice, as people suggested above, or tofu, nuts, etc. We've enjoyed lately eating the veggie burgers and veggie chick'n strips that have good taste and texture as well as lots of protein.

What ketchupqueen and others above said about amino acids is absolutely correct. All proteins are made up of strings of amino acids. Proteins make up all your tissues as well as your immune system. Your body can synthesize some amino acids but others have to be consumed in your diet. They are called the essential amino acids. Egg whites have the perfect mix of essential amino acids. Other very high quality vegetarian sources of protein are Quorn, milk, and soy. The protein in beans is incomplete but it's complemented by that in rice, so together they are complete, as mentioned by others above.

Avocados are a great source of fiber and good fats. Plus they're absolutely scrumptious. I'm an avocado aficionado now. They don't have much protein but they're just so tasty. They're my ice cream. So I had to put in a good word for avocados.

Since you're still eating some meat, you probably won't need this, but people who go completely vegetarian should consider taking L-carnitine. It's an amino acid that's found in meat and not much in vegetable proteins. I found that a few months after I went vegetarian, my fingernails started splitting, as though there was some dietary component missing from my eating. Taking L-carnitine made this stop. I think fingernails are probably an outward sign of something that might also be happening to body components inside too, so I always take L-carnitine now when I'm not eating meat.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

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Itsame
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"If you're vegetarian, you have to count grams in order to be sure you get enough. If you make sure you have enough protein every day, day after day, then you won't get cravings for meat and you won't get sick."

Eh, I'm a vegan. I just have a ton of tofu, or whatever I feel like. I don't really think about it, but I've been building muscle lately.

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Tatiana
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Tofu is great! I used to not like how it tasted but now I love it. Sasha piles weight on top to squeeze out the liquid before cooking it. Then it absorbs the flavorings of the dish its in, like soy sauce or a spicy broth. Then it tastes fantastic.

I also like soy milk although most types have a lot of carbs. I loved the 8th continent light soy milk original flavor that only had 2 gm of carb per cup. Now I can't find that any more and I'm drinking Silk light original, that has something like 8g of carb per cup.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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Peanuts contain a helluva lot of protein. If you can get a "nothing but peanuts" brand, peanut butter is the way to go.
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ketchupqueen
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Peanuts plus rice= good protein. Peanuts plus veggies plus yummy sauce plus rice= good stir fry or curry. [Big Grin]
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katdog42
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If you're looking for a good book about nutrition that also takes in issues of ethical consumption, you should try "Diet for a Small Planet." IIRC, (I read it many years ago), it teaches how to balance diets by explaining things like complete proteins and the need for some carbohydrates (specifically fruits and whole grains). It also gives recipes and other things that might be helpful for someone looking to change their eating habits.

Hmmm, I really need to go back and reread it myself.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
If you're vegetarian, you have to count grams in order to be sure you get enough. If you make sure you have enough protein every day, day after day, then you won't get cravings for meat and you won't get sick. (Or that's how it worked for me.)
My experience is quite different. During the years that I was a vegetarian, I never counted grams of protein and never had cravings for meat and rarely go sick. I started off being careful to calculate how much protein I was getting but found that as long as I ate a good variety of healthy foods daily, I never had a problem. I did eat a dairy products regularly including some yogurt and cheese almost every day so that may have made a difference. It also may be that you are more sensitive to this as a diabetic.

I still cook largely vegetarian when I'm at home but its a lot harder to get complete protein when you can't eat most grains. Its also nearly impossible to find gluten free vegetarian food in any restaurant.

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EmpSquared
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:
If you're vegetarian, you have to count grams in order to be sure you get enough. If you make sure you have enough protein every day, day after day, then you won't get cravings for meat and you won't get sick. (Or that's how it worked for me.)
My experience is quite different. During the years that I was a vegetarian, I never counted grams of protein and never had cravings for meat and rarely go sick. I started off being careful to calculate how much protein I was getting but found that as long as I ate a good variety of healthy foods daily, I never had a problem. I did eat a dairy products regularly including some yogurt and cheese almost every day so that may have made a difference. It also may be that you are more sensitive to this as a diabetic.

I still cook largely vegetarian when I'm at home but its a lot harder to get complete protein when you can't eat most grains. Its also nearly impossible to find gluten free vegetarian food in any restaurant.

Really? Two of the last three restaurants I've worked for had gluten free vegetarian food. Hell, my current restaurant has gluten-free beer.
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Launchywiggin
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*sigh* I've been trying to figure out "healthy eating" for like 3 years now, and it's simply a nightmare how there is NO FREAKING CONSENSUS on what healthy eating is. I lost weight by eating less and exercising, but as for what to eat--it's a bleeping mystery.

I'm currently eating high-fiber, high protein, and if I eat carbs, they're whole grain. Got it from a guy who said it was in Men's Health magazine. I'm not losing weight, but I'm not gaining either.

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Strider
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thanks for all the words of wisdom and book recommendations.

I'm most definitely not cutting out eggs, milk, or cheese out of my diet, so whatever good comes of those foods I'll still be getting. I have some ethical concerns about dairy, but not quite enough to get me to cut it out of my diet. Though there are other health related reasons why dairy isn't so great, right? The information I have is spotty at best, but from what i gather it's both a matter of where it's coming from and how it's produced(i.e. - whether it's organic, etc...) as well as some inherent nutritional ingredients and effects. Is there a health related case for dropping dairy? For some reason, I feel like even if there is it'll be near impossible for me to let it go.

I've never liked Tofu at all. I can't say I've had all that much experience with it, but from the times i have tried it I can say that the consistency is really off putting to me. I'm willing to give it a shot, but I'm not particularly hopeful.

Now, I do also have whey protein powder mix. I run and work out regularly, and while I'm not particularly interested in "building muscle" I do want to make sure I get my protein requirement so I have been using that semi-regularly.

While counting grams of protein may be beneficial, I really don't see myself doing it. Partly out of laziness I think, and partly out of some inherent aversion to that sort of structure. Now, maybe if it became a necessity I'd change my mind about this, but at the moment I know myself enough to know I'm most likely not going to do it.

So far(i know it's been a short time) I haven't had any problem with this change of eating habits, up until this past weekend. I was away with friends and we were eating out a lot and it was definitely somewhat frustrating and a bit harder to find things to eat. I feel a little bad complaining about this at all though. Given the fact I'm still eating dairy, and meat once a week, I shouldn't really be in a position to complain about how hard it is for me. [Smile]

thanks again for the suggestions. I've been getting into good running shape recently and am doing a fair amount of racing this summer. Of primary concern to me is making sure I stay healthy and get what I need.

[ June 15, 2008, 03:45 AM: Message edited by: Strider ]

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ketchupqueen
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I don't like tofu either, and it's a texture problem for me, too-- but I've found that draining and crumbling extra-firm makes for a quite decent pasta sauce ingredient. You can also drain it, cut it in strips, fry it, and dip it in sauce. That also helps the texture.

I think the only health reasons to cut out dairy would be fat or intolerance. A lot of people are very intolerant of/sensitive to dairy, some don't know it until they start consuming more. So watch that, you may need to moderate your use of it. And the fat issue can be pretty much eliminated by drinking non-fat and eating low-fat cheese, etc.

As for the ethical issues with dairy, if you're committed you can find cruelty-free free-range milk and cheese in some parts of the country-- but you'll pay through the teeth for it.

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aspectre
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A few thoughts about fish
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aspectre
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I still intend to add a few thoughts about fish as a high-quality protein source. But first, sink your teeth
into BurgerKing's 95pound bacon&mushroom burger. If that's a bit too much for you, share with a friend.

[ June 18, 2008, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]

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Mike
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quote:
Originally posted by aspectre:
A few thoughts about fish

Interesting. This page is particularly enlightening.
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Strider
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oh man...i need to go shopping.

I have an overabundance of meat since i stopped eating it and I'm low on food right now. So i'm looking for something to eat and all I see is meat everywhere!

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ketchupqueen
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Isn't it kind of a waste to not eat the meat that you already bought? Or are you just consuming it in smaller portions until it's gone?
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Strider
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the latter. I was thinking of throwing a bbq this weekend to get rid of a bunch of it.
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aspectre
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http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/christmas08/food-and-drink/the-50-best-cookbooks-928214.html?action=Popup&ino=1
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PSI Teleport
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Strider, I know this isn't what you said you want to do, but I'll give this advice anyway. Go vegan for a month or two, with the express intention of going back. It won't be long enough to really impact your health for the negative, even if you aren't regularly getting B-12 (the only nutrient that can't be well supplied by a vegan diet.) The reason I say this is because, on a vegan diet, it's much easier to slowly add meat or dairy or whatever back in, until you think you are getting enough. You begin to realize how unnecessary meat really is. You are forced to be creative with your meal planning, and you are forced to learn a lot about foods you wouldn't ordinarily try. You will also find some alternatives to animal-derived favorites that you can stick with (like Earth Balance margarine. Delicious, non-dairy, and no hydrogenated oils.) This is what I did, quite by accident. I went vegan for a month, but an ulcer I'd had became really problematic (unrelated to the veganism) and I was ordered to eat more iron in case it was bleeding at all. The problem with that is that iron supplements interfere with Nexium, which I was taking, so I was basically told "eat heme iron or be anemic, your choice". At any rate, I've added one serving of red meat per week to an otherwise vegan diet, (which sounds crazy, I know) and I feel really great. My ulcer is almost all better, but I'm considering keeping that serving of meat. It seems to be plenty.

As far as protein, meh. Protein is naturally found in all foods, even fruit, to a small degree. As long as you're eating some legume or nut and some grain, you will be fine. One delicious source of a "whole" protein, if you're lazy, is quinoa. I love that stuff. If anyone asks you, "But what about protein?" ask them which amino acid they are concerned about. That'll shut them up.

Disclaimer: PSI is not a board-certified physician. [Big Grin]

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theamazeeaz
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See a dietician! My aunt is one. Anyway, they can tell you what you need to be eating if you want to partially cut out meat.
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Strider
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Interesting time for this thread to pop up, right after a serious test of my will power on Thanksgiving.

Since I started the thread I went from eating meat once a week to eating it once a month. It's now running on over a month and a half since i last ate a meat dish, and I think I'm probably going to continue along this path and officially go vegetarian. I still don't think I can make that leap to fully vegan though. I have a vegan friend and watching the difficulty with which he has to manage his food consumption is enough to keep me from trying it(at least for now). That, and I really would miss dairy a whole lot. I do things slowly(hence my weening off of meat), and maybe once I'm more settled in vegetarianism I'll make an effort at veganism.

thanks for the link aspectre

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PSI Teleport
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Woah, I didn't notice the old dates.
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Eaquae Legit
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Strider, my sister did the same thing. She was vegetarian for 5 or 6 years before going fully vegan. She tried it after 2 or 3 years, but she found she didn't have the time or the education. The second time she attempted it, she found it really quite easy, because she really knew what she was doing.

I'm 99% vegetarian right now. Every now and then I crave meat, and I'm okay with that. The last time, I had a bad flu or cold or something. Right now I just find I'm missing a favourite dish that I haven't worked out an adequate substitute for. It's not that I'm not getting all my proteins - I eat a really varied diet and go a bit loopy if I have to eat on the same continent for more than a couple days - I just occasionally want meat. I get a fair amount of cheese, eggs, milk, and other dairy, so I find when I have a meat meal it doesn't bother me much, aside from feeling a bit heavy.

One of my favourite cookbooks is the Veganomicon. People give me weird looks when I pull out my vegan cookbooks, but I find it's a lot easier to adapt a vegan recipe to include dairy, etc., than it is to adapt a meat recipe to veg. Indian Vegetarian Cookery, by Rafi Fernandez, is a great little book if you can find a copy.

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Strider
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quote:
Woah, I didn't notice the old dates.
no worries, i appreciate the suggestion anyway!

I've done the same thing in the past, and I've conditioned myself to check for that sort of thing first now.

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Strider
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I've found that the only thing that I really miss and can't replicate in any way is Salmon. I predict that if any time in the future I break the diet, it will be over a Salmon dinner.
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BlueWizard
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Most people think being a vegitarian simply means eating salads all the time; that's not true. In fact, if all you eat is salad, you are likely to starve.

The most important aspect of a vegetarian diet is making sure you get enough protein, and more importantly that you get complete protein. So, you need protein from a variety of sources. For example, red beans and rice, a Mexican staple, has two different types of protein, each providing a different array of amino acids. The two together do a fair job of adding complete protein to your diet.

Lentils are another good source because they can be cooked quickly. Soak them in a pan for a while, then bring to a boil and add rice; like any beans and rice, it does a fair job of providing a range of amino acids and protein.

If you are simply cutting out red meat, then you can have a small portion of pork, chicken, or fish. Tofu can be added to almost any dish, but it never really works to base a meal around tofu. It's too bland. Tofu turkey or tofu 'drumsticks' just don't cut it. Some ground soybean based 'textured vegetable proteins' aren't too bad. For example, soy burger or veggie burger. Stir fry with fried seasoned tofu is actually pretty good.

You should limit the amount of soy/tofu related protein eaten by young growing boys, especially VERY young boys. Soy/Tofu protein also has a certain amount of estrogen in it, and could cause hormone irregularities in young boys. And it should never be given to baby boys, things like soy milk are bad for infants. Tofu and soy protein aren't so much of a problem for men.

Also, milk and cheese have protein, but it is not a completely protein. So, again they can help expand the range of proteins, but can be relied on as a soul source.

When you get right down to it, the day-in day-out essence of being a vegetarian, is the search for complete protein.

Also, if you plan to occasionally eat some animal flesh, keep in mind that our protein requirements are much much less than most people imagine. A 4 to 6 ounce piece of meat is plenty for most people. Depending on how committed you are, you could reduce your meat intake to small amounts once a day, and for you other one or two meals, eat protein rich carbohydrates (grain, beans, rice, etc...).

Steve/bluewizard

[ November 29, 2008, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: BlueWizard ]

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
Most people think being a vegitarian simply means eating salads all the time;
What's your source on that? I don't think I've ever met anyone who thought that.
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PSI Teleport
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quote:
When you get right down to it, the day-in day-out essence of being a vegetarian, is the search for complete protein.
Once again, no it's not. It's very difficult to not get enough protein if you are eating a varied diet. You'd basically have to be living off Sour Patch Kids and Guinness beer. (Both of which are vegan, by the way.) Especially if you're vegetarian, rather than vegan. You will be getting plenty of protein from the eggs and dairy.

Protein deficiency is a very real problem...in developing countries. It is incredibly rare in developed countries. There are a lot of myths about the symptoms of protein deficiency, which leads people who are already obsessed about it to think they have it. In reality, you would have to be eating a horrible diet, or little to no food at all. Also, the idea that you have to eat legumes with rice or grains to get a "complete protein" is completely outdated. As long as you're eating some from each group every couple of days, you'll be fine. (Once again, that's assuming you aren't already getting protein from eggs and milk.)

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scholarette
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quote:
Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:
Most people think being a vegitarian simply means eating salads all the time;
What's your source on that? I don't think I've ever met anyone who thought that.
One of my undergrads thought that when she was 14. She ended up getting very sick, so now she is much more responsible about eating.
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ketchupqueen
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One 14 year old does not equal "most people" to my mind...

quote:
Also, the idea that you have to eat legumes with rice or grains to get a "complete protein" is completely outdated. As long as you're eating some from each group every couple of days, you'll be fine.
While this may be true (I've seen varying medical opinions on it-- most people seem to agree you don't have to eat grains WITH legumes but some say they should be consumed within a day of each other, some say a few hours, some say a few days) I have found that meals that contain both are much more SATISFYING. I eat more if I don't have both at one meal; if I get both, or a complete-protein meat substitute of some kind (TVP or whatever) I eat a more appropriate amount. (Of course, ensuring there's a umami flavor in each meal also helps with that...)
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Tatiana
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I do think most people who provide vegetarian lunches think the way to do it is to just remove the meat from a regular lunch. Most meat meals contain somewhere around 20g of protein, for instance. When you look at the vegetarian options from the menu, many of them contain less than 5g of protein.

So I think the point many people are making is that you don't just remove the meat from your regular diet to become vegetarian. Though hopefully most people who decide to eat vegetarian realize that, my experience with people providing vegetarian meals for others is that they often don't. For instance, a salad (with no cheese or nuts) plus a plain baked potato was one meal I remember getting as the vegetarian option. And quite often I've been offered just a salad plus nothing else.

And I disagree that it's easy to get enough protein. I think you have to eat or cook at home a lot, plus know what vegetarian foods contain protein and be sure to add those to your diet, to get enough.

0.8 to 1.25 g protein per day per kilogram of body weight is the standard. It's not terribly difficult to get that much but it won't usually just happen by itself without planning.

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ketchupqueen
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Huh.

I must be insulated from that effect, growing up in California.

I've never gotten a vegetarian lunch (and I've gotten plenty in my time; I spent much of high school as a mostly-vegetarian) that did not have cheese, nuts, or another protein source. Most often cheese, since that's the easiest for them most of the time. For example, it was often a cheese sandwich with a salad. The salad often also had cheese on it. Or sometimes it was PB&J with fruit or salad. I've had some very nice vegetarian entrees as well at dinners that ranged from a whole-grain pasta with a high-protein white sauce and fresh veggies, to grilled eggplant steaks with wine sauce, veggies, and quinoa, to a mixed veggie grill over polenta, to a scrumptious mushroom and carmelized onion quiche.

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Mike
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueWizard:
Also, milk and cheese have protein, but it is not a completely protein.

I am pretty sure this is not the case. See, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_protein .
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