posted
Well, there you go. Turns out - it is my innate bias against Chicagoland.
But really, the only experience I have with anything Chicago (recently) is flying into ORD (only while landing on 22L/R) and seeing the skyline. It just doesn't look (to my very untrained eye) like there's enough room for the amount of crap they'd have to build. And where would the Bears go? Would they use Soldier Field/UI-C for training camp or the Olympics? (Not that I really care. )
I asked a friend about the Olympics and Chicago, and he said "Yeah! That sounds like a great place for the Winter Olympics!" I goggled at him and said "Really? Where the heck would they ski?" He was appropriately abashed. Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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Interesting piece of info, some events for the Beijing Olympics will be spread out over six cities, Shenyang, Tianjin, Qinghuangdao, Qingdao and Hong Kong.
Hong Kong is hosting the equestrian events (e.g. horse racing, which is very appropriate), Qingdao (home of Tsingtao beer) is doing sailing and was in the news recently for algae blooms which had to be cleared, and Shenyang is doing some of the soccer (an odd choice, as part of China's rust belt ... I was *not* impressed while passing through)
I very little about Tianjin and Qinghuangdao.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Wouldn't by hosting the event in a rust belt mean that they aren't forgotten?
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Iraq has been allowed to compete in the games. Due to the timing of their disallowal and subsequent reversal, they'll only have two atheletes actually competing, but at least one of them has a pretty compelling story of training in a war torn country.
Iran I think this year will feature their first ever female Olympian.
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BB: Perhaps, but after all the money and time spent in Beijing aimed at impressing foreigners, I just think Shenyang would be a bit contrary to that goal. (not that I necessarily mind)
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Hong Kong is hosting the equestrian events (e.g. horse racing, which is very appropriate)
Except horse racing isn't an Olympic sport.
And while I don't think it's unusual for cities near the Olympic host city to hold some events, it does seem like a bunch of those are pretty far from Beijing.
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I have to say, the only Olympic sports I like to watch are those with cute female athletes. (Fortunately, those are exactly the sports that my girlfriend likes, too!) Anybody else feel this way, in relation to females or males?
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Risuena: Good point. Well ... I'm confident Hong Kong people will find some way to bet on it nonetheless Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: I have to say, the only Olympic sports I like to watch are those with cute female athletes. (Fortunately, those are exactly the sports that my girlfriend likes, too!) Anybody else feel this way, in relation to females or males?
posted
Beach volleyball for sure, but I really like watching nearly all the events. If a girl tries to browbeat you away from watching women's beach volleyball just say that we're gold medal favorites this year and you're supporting your country.
Risuena -
Sometimes it's like that. I think one of the events in Turin's Winter games 2 years ago was actually in Switzerland. I can't remember for sure, but it was really far away. I remember one of those skiing events was actually postponed because the road from Turin to the far away place was washed out for a day after a heavy snowfall. Vancouver's games in two years are being shared more or less with Whistler, which was actually a bit of a deal since they had to embark on a major construction project to widen and enhance the road linking the two cities. It's sort of technically against the spirit of the games since only a single city can actually apply, you can't apply as a metropolitan region or even apply using far away cities, but there are so many other factors that often it's all sort of thrown together. But it happens all the time.
In other news -
The Olympic village opened last week to fanfare...and complaints. The press is pissed because their internet access is being censored, disallowing some sites like Amnesty International. They access to parts of the country, promised by China before the games to be open, is highly restricted. Many are crying foul at what looks like a broken promise from China, who said before getting the games that they'd allow free press access without censorship, but lo and behold we find that this current situation was actually negotiated by the IOC itself, who is fully aware of the situation and in fact signed off on it. Part of the IOC's original justification for choosing China despite concerns over their human rights record among other things was that this would push them to be more open and fair, and they follow that up with signing rules that do the exact opposite of that reasoning.
On the flip side, I heard an interview with a BBC correspondent the other day who said that for the first time he was allowed to cover a Chinese gay rights protest, and even to interview the protestors and activists. But he also said that they were denied access to a food market of all places. It seems to be a grab bag of mixed responses. Thus far, it appears that many of the promises of the IOC and China have really been pretty empty. However it'll be impossible to tell what will happen during the games in regards to coverage, and for that matter what sort of long term benefits we might see from this. I think if nothing comes of it though, China should have to do more before the games next time to prove they deserve them.
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Even 24 is old to me. By 2016 hopefully I'll be in a good financial situation and I'll be able to go.
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Lyrhawn: I'd have to respectfully disagree with the last two sentences, although I suspect it has much to do with what metric you're using to judge success. If the metric is "Has <host city> been a positive choice in hosting a sports-friendly and politically free Olympics compared to the other possible hosts?" then my conclusion would be much the same as yours.
If the metric is "Has <host city> been a positive choice for the Olympics in causing positive social, political, and environmental change compared to the other possible hosts?" then the conclusion, as I have mentioned before, is that this has been an awesome choice.
To illustrate this point, let's look at the other possible host cities. http://www.olympic.org/uk/games/beijing/election_uk.asp Excepting Istanbul (for which I simply have too little knowledge on to comment) all of the other cities are relatively modern, cosmopolitan, and developed. As a proud Canadian, if Beijing had been eliminated and Toronto as the second-place contender had been picked, I'm sure we would have been a good choice as the first metric. However, it would not really change the second metric aside from maybe finally getting our waterfront re-developed and providing impetus to complete one (singular) subway line.
On the other hand, having the Olympics in Beijing has been the catalyst for all sorts of changes both negative (temporary increased oppression of activists during the games, relocation of families to build venues, providing a trigger for the riots in Tibet, etc.) versus the positive (the wholesale relocation of many factories outside the capital, building three subway lines, ensuring a speedy and efficient reaction to the Sichuan Earthquake). On the balance, these changes have been very positive and beyond the ability of any other city to match.
In fact, I would assert that the effect of the Olympics on the governmental and citizen response to the Sichuan Earthquake alone is responsible for saving thousands (if not tens of thousands) of lives and enough to justify Beijing as a good choice for host city (in hindsight).
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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I heard today that China allegedly has underage girls on its women's gymnastics team (they're 14, and the minimum age is 16). But the country might not be using them simply because they're, say, more flexible; a former Soviet gymnast now on the Olympic committee for the sport says that younger girls are less fearful of performing dangerous moves. Which I suppose works wonderfully until one of the girls learns the hard way why they're dangerous.
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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The underage thing is not going to be a problem, because China provided the IOC with passports that stated the girls were 16, and that's the end of that.
I don't know about the less fearful vs. less flexible thing. I mean, fear can hit you at any point in training in gymnastics. And most kids as young as six have seen catastrophic injuries in the gym. My daughter is a competitive gymnast - certainly not Olympic caliber, but still. And we've seen terrible injuries occur in the gym, but it's not what you think. Usually it's a misplaced ankle, or one knee turned wrong on one landing out of thousands. One girl broke her thumb doing a handstand on the beam - a move girls as young as four do and one this girl, who was 11, had done thousands of time without incident. She misplaced her thumb one time - it broke so badly she could never return to gymnastics.
So, I disagree that younger girls are less fearful, honestly. Every gymnast has seen injury happen and knows it can happen on ANY move, not just the flashy, exciting, dangerous-looking ones.
What I do see in our gym, however, is that gymnastics becomes much harder to do when the girl hits puberty. A developed body with breasts and a woman's curves is a lot harder to flip around in the air. There's a reason most successful gymnasts look like girls instead of women - it gets much harder when you have a fully developed body. Also, height makes a big difference. Tall gymnasts have to work much, much harder. Think about pulling your legs up and around the bar - it's much easier if those legs are short vs. long. My daughter excels on the bars - mainly because she's very short and compact, and finds it easy to swing around. Her best friend is six inches taller than her - and struggles mightily and one of the main reasons, according to her coach, is her height. The physics people out there can probably tell us exactly why a 4'8" person has an easier time swinging all the way around a bar vs. someone who is 5'4".
I don't really buy the fear issue - I think it's simply an issue of physicality. It's better if the girls are flat chested and small, and that's more likely to occur in pre-pubescent girls.
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posted
Angular momentum is just summing all the mass of a person weighted by the distance from the center of rotation. So adding 10% in distance from the center is the same (for rotation) as making your body weight considerably more, and thus harder to move.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:I don't know about the less fearful vs. less flexible thing.
I think the advantage goes to flexibility side, just barely. Flexibility improves so many sightlines, and improves balance in such myriad ways. Then again, one of my buddies competed through college, and never did get over her earnest fear of the vault.
posted
But I'm not sure that flexibility decreases that much between 14 and 18, say. Not for a competitive gymnast, who vigorously works to maintain her flexibility every day.
Does it decrease that much in those years? I don't know my physiology and anatomy well enough to say.
However, puberty and the accompanying development in breast, hips, and elsewhere certainly can cause major changes between 14 and 18.
Of course, in America, many girls begin developing well before 14. Although, a highly toned athlete with very low body fat can delay puberty.
So, I'm not sure. But I don't think the flexibility decreases all that much if you keep at it. As for the fear, well like I said, it can strike any time and be related to any event. My daughter has no fear of the bars - none. She loves them, and would stay on them every night until her hands bled. Actually, wait - she's done that! Yet, one particular move on the beam frightens her, and it's a really simple little jump. But, she fell on that jump when she was six years old, and hurt herself pretty badly, and ever since that one move gives her pause. She can do it, but you can tell on her face when she goes into it that it bothers her.
As for vault, well, honestly you're running full speed at a large, stationary object - most sane people would be fearful! Vault is another one my daughter loves, but I can certainly understand being fearful of it. Some girls in our gym hate to vault - one actually tries to hide when the coach moves them to vault!
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Thought this would be interesting, there have been several articles on Beijing's campaign to make Beijing more hospitable to waiguoren, here is an example:
quote: Etiquette experts have long advised hosts to avoid discussing politics and religion. But salaries, love lives and health are also off limits during the Olympics, as Beijing's courtesy campaign reaches its final stages.
For three years or more, officials have been training residents to be on their best behaviour, launching drives against spitting, smoking and swearing and encouraging locals to form orderly queues. ... "It is normal for Chinese to ask people they just met such questions, but foreigners respond negatively," said Wang Zhaoqian, a spokeswoman for the Beijing municipal government.
"By educating locals, we hope that they will become more socially sensitive when communicating with visitors."
Another poster warns against using phrases such as "it's up there" when talking to anyone visually impaired, or "it's behind you" to disabled athletes. It recommends comments such as: "You are really great."
Deference to foreign sensitivities is such that volunteers have even been warned against using rap music as the ringtone on their mobile phones lest they offend visitors, China Daily reported.
Officials also warned today that they would not tolerate "obscene, sexual, superstitious or base" adverts over the Olympic period, saying they could affect the national image. Adverts for cigarettes and products that claim to improve sexual performance are off limits.
As a fun comparison, here is one used by the Bush delegation to Canada:
quote: Among the advice: how to decipher what Canadians mean when they put "eh?" at the end of a sentence.
"Eh," the guide helpfully explained, is pronounced "ay."
"Used mostly in rural areas," it states, the word roughly translates as "You know?" or "Isn't it?"
The guide, prepared by the U.S. Office of the Chief of Protocol, also notes that "Canadians, for the most part, place importance on education, skill, modesty and politeness."
In a section on "social customs and courtesies," designed to prevent members of the delegation from accidentally giving offence, the report advises that:
- "On being introduced the customary greetings are: firm handshake, customary "Hello," or "Bonjour" in Quebec.
- "During conversation remove sunglasses."
- "While indoors remove hats."
The document states that "most Canadian gestures are the same as those used in the United States" but adds there are some exceptions, including:
- "To call someone to you, use the entire hand rather than the index finger."
- "In Quebec, the thumbs down sign is considered offensive."
I find it interesting in part because one can see what kind of odd cultural misunderstandings can arise even when one is making an effort to be sensitive to others.
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No, like laowai or gweilo, thats the kind of (potentially) impolite description that they're trying to avoid Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
I thought it meant "American", thats what my phrase book tells me.
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Random question but is it typical for US television stations to rerun the Olympic opening ceremonies? I have circuit training at the dojo on Friday night for the tournament next weekend, but I'm sad that I'll miss the opening ceremony especially the performance by the Shaolin monks.
Or I'm guessing it'll be available as streaming video on a few news websites?
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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On that note, if anyone knows of an online webcast which will be live tomorrow morning that would be appreciated. The technologically backward CBC doesn't seem to have plans for a live feed online.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Sometimes they rebroadcast it immediately after the first showing. Actual events don't start until the next morning anyway so that's a lot of down time.
Does anyone know where I can find a full schedule of events and which ones will be televised, when, and on what channel? I know there's TV guide, but NBC is showing their Olympics coverage on like six different channels.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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NBC Olympics has a great section where you type in your zip code and tell them your cable provider and then they spit out a schedule with all the different stations, what events are being televised, and a schedule of the events that are available for streaming over the internet. It's pretty cool and covers everything.
And they are showing the opening ceremonies again at like 1am here, so probably everywhere else too. I might watch, but they'll already have rowing and other things available to be watched, and I don't want to miss that. I wonder if they'll put up anything on the big screens at work. It IS a sports bar. Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Actually, CBC is streaming live video of the 8pm Beijing time OpeningCeremony at 4am Vancouver time / 7am Ottawa time. Pre-opening coverage begins at 2:45am Vancouver / 5:45 Ottawa. And the Canadian feed is apparently blocked to US residents. So how come the news media ain't screaming about Internet censorship by the US and Canada???
Near as I can tell from a quick look at their NBCOlympics.com schedules, the NatteringBombasticCretins will be pretending that the OpeningCeremony occurs about 16hours later.
posted
Curses, I must have missed the notice on the CBC website last night. Oh well, probably better to watch it on HD tonight after work anyways.
Edit to add: Watched the CCTV1 webcast with a bunch of coworkers for the lighting of the flame live. Will probably be seeing either the CBC or CCTV HD broadcast later tonight since what I did see was fairly funky.
posted
I think some of you know that I've followed the Floyd Landis case pretty extensively, and still think Floyd is innocent, regardless of the CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) decision. The data provided by the laboratory is a travesty in a bunch of ways.
On the eve of the Olympics (and I believe the timing is deliberate) An analysis of that data was published by a biostatician named Donald Berry in Nature this month.
In addition, Nature came out with an extremely strong editorial statement, on the crappy science that is being done in the name of "Anti doping".
quote:Nature believes that accepting 'legal limits' of specific metabolites without such rigorous verification goes against the foundational standards of modern science, and results in an arbitrary test for which the rate of false positives and false negatives can never be known. By leaving these rates unknown, and by not publishing and opening to broader scientific scrutiny the methods by which testing labs engage in study, it is Nature's view that the anti-doping authorities have fostered a sporting culture of suspicion, secrecy and fear.
Wow, just wow. Unfortunately it's too late for Floyd. And the people who were judging him, didn't really care how statistically valid the test actually was.
So view all so-called "drug tests" from Bejing with a healthy dose of skepticism. This is not to say that people aren't doping. But the tests that are attempting to catch them aren't scientifically validated to a degree of confidence that they won't catch innocent people in the process. And the innocent have no recourse, because of the way the rules have been written.
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Some quick comments after viewing the CBC and NBC broadcasts of the opening ceremonies (looks like the CCTV broadcast isn't allowed in Canada for exclusive broadcast rights reasons)
CBC: * Crummy video angles and sound. I wonder if CCTV handles all of the video recording and sound and then resells it to the various tv channels around the world. CBC must have cheaped out and got the "economy" package. I didn't even see some nice touches that I saw in the NBC package * The city night flyby with fireworks was spectacular and especially nostalgic * Holy crap lots of people use flash cameras when there is little hope of the flash making a difference, oy
NBC: * Is that a song from 'Batman Begins' accompanying the video of American athletes? Is that Plunkett and Macclean? * Definitely had better camera angles and sound quality * One ommission due to ads, there was a really nice and stylish video depicting the paper making process which segued into the scroll opening up to the artistic ceremony * A thought occurs, holy crap that thats a lot of good logistics, organization, and timing.
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I've got badmitton reruns on USA on the TV and the men's air pistol finals on my computer streaming from the website. I love the additional coverage this year
Edit to add:
Aw! US Men finish 4th and 5th in air pistol and miss a medal by a point. So close! US women finished in 4th place and missed a medal by a point too with air rifle.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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While watching the Olympics I and the people I was with were trying to figure out where the feed comes from. Obviously there were Chinese cameramen on the ground, and I presume that each station received a feed of the various cameras which they could switch between. How much freedom they had I'm not sure. During the carrying of the flame it looked like they couldn't have more than two options. You could see the camera men passing off to each other and that switch must have been prearranged at the Chinese end- there was a brief mistake during one switch off as the cameraman due to take the final leg wasn't ready. (They edited it out the final version).
At certain points, CBC had a split screen focused on their Olympians, so they probably had their own cameras as well. I think these extra cameras probably made the difference. CBC showed the NBC tent- complete with many air conditioners. CBC was up in a stairwell, presumably filming through glass to get their own shots of the Canadians.
It was not likely due to getting the 'economy' package, but simply due to being a less important film crew. I assume they all received the same choices of official cameras.
All in all, the only difference in angles would be the personalized shots or in the directors choice of the angles. NBC, being outside and further down, would get a clear shot. CBC, behind glass and higher up, had a more difficult shot.
I do agree that CBC was a little wobbly, as Peter Mansbridge or the Sports Person (they sounded the same) did get left behind country-wise and end up talking about a different country than we were seeing on the screen, saying that certain countries got a cheer that was actually intended by the crowd for the country after them. Presumably this was due to their difficulty in seeing and they did seem to rectify this problem later on.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I caught the Parade of Countries and torch lighting. I got a kick out of seeing big Yao Ming with little Lin Hao walking alongside, and later on his arm, leaning over to hear the excited little boy's excited exclaimations over the torch lighting and fireworks. That was a sweet picture.
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While watching the Olympics I and the people I was with were trying to figure out where the feed comes from. Obviously there were Chinese cameramen on the ground, and I presume that each station received a feed of the various cameras which they could switch between. How much freedom they had I'm not sure. During the carrying of the flame it looked like they couldn't have more than two options. You could see the camera men passing off to each other and that switch must have been prearranged at the Chinese end- there was a brief mistake during one switch off as the cameraman due to take the final leg wasn't ready. (They edited it out the final version).
At certain points, CBC had a split screen focused on their Olympians, so they probably had their own cameras as well. I think these extra cameras probably made the difference. CBC showed the NBC tent- complete with many air conditioners. CBC was up in a stairwell, presumably filming through glass to get their own shots of the Canadians.
It was not likely due to getting the 'economy' package, but simply due to being a less important film crew. I assume they all received the same choices of official cameras.
All in all, the only difference in angles would be the personalized shots or in the directors choice of the angles. NBC, being outside and further down, would get a clear shot. CBC, behind glass and higher up, had a more difficult shot.
I do agree that CBC was a little wobbly, as Peter Mansbridge or the Sports Person (they sounded the same) did get left behind country-wise and end up talking about a different country than we were seeing on the screen, saying that certain countries got a cheer that was actually intended by the crowd for the country after them. Presumably this was due to their difficulty in seeing and they did seem to rectify this problem later on.
Also: Please note that the NBC broadcast was not done live. They may have done it live to tape but presumably had more editing abilities available to them. CBC was doing it live. That tends to cause more mistakes, because you have to guess what's going to be the best picture ahead of time rather than being able to see it.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Stunning opening ceremonies. There's a glorious art and artifice to everything they did, and I don't think I've ever seen an Olympics quite so awe-inspiring. Especially the dancers drawing on the giant sheet of paper.
Interesting messages behind everything they said. There was more than a touch of fear and awe to my reaction. China's saying that they're a powerhouse--they have the people and they will use them. Good messages about opennness and environmental awareness, at least. I have the feeling that this is China presenting its new image for itself. The symbols it set forth in the Olympics will be the image China tries to establish on the world stage from now on. Openness, yes, and sustainability, but also a vast united population.
Notice that the mayor of Beijing's speech referenced the Century of Humiliation and implied that this ceremony marked the end of it. That's like saying "We've been kowtowing to the West, but we're not going to any longer". If the past few decades have been kowtowing, I'm wondering what it'll be like when they stop.
Incredible attention to detail! The patterns formed in the printing blocks (especially the royal milkdrop, jeez) were absolutely mindblowing, especially since they were all done by individual people.
And costumes, good gracious.
By the way, the U.S. totally failed on national costume. Yes, the yacht club outfit looks so cool when Spain is dressed up in red and yellow suits with cowboy hats! Jeez, Ralph Lauren, you couldn't be a bit more creative?
And who made the decision to seat Laura Bush between her Georgie and Vladimir Putin? I swear she had to botox that smile on for it to stick all the way through the opening ceremonies.
The little kid with Yao Ming was possibly the most adorable thing I've seen, ever.
You notice sometimes the anouncers seem kinda snide? "This must be an incredible moment for the Andorran athletes: looking around the stadium, there are 20,000 more people present here than there are in their entire country". I do wish they'd stop pointing out all the nations that have never won medals at all. It's a very base thing to do.
But my god, what a disappointment the torch-lighting was. Maybe nothing can compare to Mohammed Ali or to shooting an arrow into the basin, but really, this was sad.
I do so very wish I had been there to see all of this in person.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Joldo, the only translation I got of the speech was a quick summary that I gather was rather cleaned up. Do you have a link to a full translation so I can read the real speech?
I actually was rather impressed with the torch lighting, at least the part leading up to it; it looked like it took a lot of work to make that running-in-midair motion, and he did it all the way around the stadium. But I think you're right in that it was a very symbolic, over-the-top show of POWER, making the torch appear over the top of the wall, hoisting the guy around-- rather than elegant simplicity like some of the cooler torch-lightings in the past.
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Where can I see the Opening Ceremonies after the fact? do they keep it online somewhere?
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KQ: I can't find a translation right now. NBC had a full translation in their broadcast, and maybe they'll still have that right now.
But yes, I do agree. The torch-lighting is far better when it is powerful in its simplicity. Simply striking. Seeing a man lifted up by wires loses some of the drama and beauty of past lightings.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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... The nbc channel I watched just had the guy speaking chinese, then every once in a while the announcers would give a summary of the last few sentences. After the opening ceremonies I was watching some Judo(no idea how that is scored, but apparently dropping a guy on his head wins you the match. An american guy lost that way). The cycling road race (152 miles) was on also. It's so strange how they are allowed to just chuck their waterbottles and wrappers and stuff off their bikes. Some sailing was on also, but I couldn't tell if they were even moving yet... so I wasn't really interested. Badminton is fun to watch, also. I set an alarm to wake up at like 5 to see the end of the road race but slept through it . Anyway. I'm looking forward to more olympics in the days to come
Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005
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I watched some of the women's sabre fencing early early this morning (well, okay, it was late last night), and it was amazing. I was very happy to see that the US women swept the medals in the event, because there was some absolutely amazing fencing going on in their earlier bouts.
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quote:... The nbc channel I watched just had the guy speaking chinese, then every once in a while the announcers would give a summary of the last few sentences.
That's exactly what I saw in the NBC broadcast. I watched the rebroadcast but it shouldn't have made a difference...
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Carrie: I watched some of the women's sabre fencing early early this morning (well, okay, it was late last night), and it was amazing. I was very happy to see that the US women swept the medals in the event, because there was some absolutely amazing fencing going on in their earlier bouts.
Yeah....I bet Mackillian is ecstatic.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Maybe it helps to have some background in fencing to enjoy it, but to me it is all so absurdly fast it looks the same time after time. Eh, it just seems like it should take on average more than a second to hit the other person.
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. Anyway. I'm looking forward to more olympics in the days to come
