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Author Topic: Cel Phone Etiquette
Dan_raven
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Subject A is driving a car and talking with co-riders in the car, Subject B and C and listening to the radio.

Subject B receives a call on their cel phone.

Being polite, Subject A turns down the radio, and both A and C quit their talking, allowing Subject B freedom to talk on the phone.

What is the polite responsibilities of Subject B in regards to,

1) Informing A and C why answering this call is more important than their present activity.

2) Keeping the call short so that A and C can go back to their preferred activities instead of just sitting quietly.

3) Informing D, the person on the other phone, that they are with A & C and is some ways invite them into the conversation.

What this boils down to is what is more important, where your physical body is at, and those around you there, or where your virtual self is at, and those electronically around you.

Is it rude to ignore those physically near you by tuning completely out whenever your phone rings.

Is it rude to ignore those electronically near you by not tuning completely into their electronic conversation.

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Trent Destian
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I am curious. Were you A,C, or D?
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katharina
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All three.
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scifibum
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1) Informing A and C why answering this call is more important than their present activity.

A polite "excuse me, I should take this" should be all that's necessary. Since the present activity was passive listening to the radio, I'd probably give it a pass even if they just say "thanks" for turning down the radio.

2) Keeping the call short so that A and C can go back to their preferred activities instead of just sitting quietly.

They should keep it as brief as possible. If the call consists of inane chatter, they should offer to call back later as early in the call as possible.

3) Informing D, the person on the other phone, that they are with A & C and is some ways invite them into the conversation.

As part of excusing oneself from the conversation as soon as possible, letting them know that B is with A & C might be appropriate.

--

People do tend to give cell phones inappropriate priority, and often it is for unimportant things. It's one of the reasons I use text messages - it's easier to ignore those for a moment, or even if the recipient checks it immediately, it's over quickly. It's a good way to share timely but but simple information.

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Dan_raven
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I am A of course.

Wife is B who has had 45 minute long conversations with her mother while A and C (my Son) stare blankly out the window.

Thanks for the confirmation that she's being RUDE.

However I've also seen a woman buy gas, cigarettes and chips from a Gas station without once nodding to the cashier or breaking stride in her conversation on the phone. It struck me as rude like, "person on phone is human, you behind the counter are not."

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Irami Osei-Frimpong
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quote:

Is it rude to ignore those physically near you by tuning completely out whenever your phone rings.

Yes.
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El JT de Spang
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It's absolutely rude to hold other occupants of a moving vehicle conversationally hostage to your whims. Unless it's life or death (in which case it'd be a short call anyway), I think the only courteous option is to either ignore the call or answer it and be off the phone in under a minute.

Anything else is just rude and inconsiderate, IMO.

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Elmer's Glue
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B should just try to keep the conversation short. If it's a long conversation, then A and C can just slowly go back to what they were doing. Slowly meaning starting out quiet and keep getting louder until they are back to normal or annoying enough for A to hang up.
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ladyday
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Everything okay Dan?
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Darth_Mauve
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(This is Dan on home computer. Misplaced Raven password and could only remember Darth)

Dan is OK. Just proving a point to the wife.

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Lyrhawn
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I agree with pretty much everything that has been said.
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Teshi
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quote:
Wife is B who has had 45 minute long conversations with her mother while A and C (my Son) stare blankly out the window.

My father has definitely had long work-related conversations in the car while everyone else has to be quiet. I'm not sure how important talking to parents are, since it could range from very important to not important at all.

I think that it all depends on the condition. If the call is very important or work-related it's more important than just chattering. If the call is 'pre-meditated', e.g. "I have to make at call at 3:00pm, so I'll need silence in the car," I think that makes it better.

I've always been taught to make space for others, but that doesn't mean I like it. If I was in the car with books and mp3 player etc. handy it wouldn't be very bad. If I'm clearly in the middle of something, like watching TV, and somebody is ignoring me and having a loud phone conversation in the same room where there are plenty of other options, then I'm going to be annoyed.

I agree that dominating an enclosed environment for something that isn't important (in this case there isn't something wrong), could be shifted to another time, or isn't pre-scheduled (e.g. your wife always calls her mother at that time), is fairly rude. Demanding complete silence for an unimportant conversation is very rude. If quiet conversation/activity is allowed it's slightly better.

However, 'proving a point to the wife' is not the politest way of dealing with a complaint, either.

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Starsnuffer
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A: The person on the phone should give some explanation if it's not like "I'm going to jail" and you don't want them to know either before or after the conversation politely explaining yourself.
B: The call should be as brief as possible if it is disruptive or rude to the other occupants. If you weren't talking or anything otherwise, then who cares, but chances are it should be short.
C: I think is not necessary but could be good to tell the person on the phone that things need to be expedited for courtesy's sake.

I think there's a strong compulsion to make radio quieter in respect for the phone call.

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Slim
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan_raven:
Subject A is driving a car and talking with co-riders in the car, Subject B and C and listening to the radio.

Subject B receives a call on their cel phone.

Being polite, Subject A turns down the radio, and both A and C quit their talking, allowing Subject B freedom to talk on the phone.

What is the polite responsibilities of Subject B in regards to,

1) Informing A and C why answering this call is more important than their present activity.

2) Keeping the call short so that A and C can go back to their preferred activities instead of just sitting quietly.

3) Informing D, the person on the other phone, that they are with A & C and is some ways invite them into the conversation.

What this boils down to is what is more important, where your physical body is at, and those around you there, or where your virtual self is at, and those electronically around you.

Is it rude to ignore those physically near you by tuning completely out whenever your phone rings.

Is it rude to ignore those electronically near you by not tuning completely into their electronic conversation.

1) B should either warn A & C beforehand that s/he will get a call, or tell them what the call was about afterwards.

2) B should keep on the phone for a period of time equal to how much more important D is than A & C. (this may also include not answering the phone at all.) A & C don't have to take it quietly, though. If I were A or C, I would continue listening to the radio, or listen in on the cell conversation.

3) D should always assume that if B is using a cell phone, others will be there either doing their own thing, or listening in. B doesn't have to do anything, but can if desired.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong:
quote:

Is it rude to ignore those physically near you by tuning completely out whenever your phone rings.

Yes.
This is grounds for ending your outing or get together with a friend early, imo. It depends on the severity, but I have left a friend's house once or twice while they were on the phone.

Edit: I only did this if the friendship could withstand the slight- or if I didn't care.

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AvidReader
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I am with Teshi on the business call exception. For some reason, there's always some kind of crisis at work that my sig-o has to deal with while we're on our way to dinner or an evening with friends. Then he gets to spend the next thirty minutes waiting on calls and popping outside to arrange coverage.

Personal calls I'm less forgiving about. My mom told me about a car trip she made with some friends. Any time there was a lull in the conversation, they immediately got their cell phones out to call someone else and chat. My mom considers it an electronics induced form of ADD.

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Lostinspace
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I think Cell phones have started to disconnect us all from the rest of the world. People stand in grocery stores or retail stores and talk on the phone very loudly. Consider the fact that I don't want to hear about your day at work and this is not the time and place to have idle conversation, plus it means you are dragging yourself around in my way while you chat idle in the isle and I am on a misson to get my food! Secondly, the people who talk on the phone while driving annoy me. They can not keep a constant speed and I constantly have to honk at them to let them know that the light has changed. Cell phones are nice, but they should in now way be used as an excuse to disconnect from the here and now. But then I think we are becoming a society that is disconnecting from the here and now.
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Kwea
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I have left people at a pool hall when I was their ride because in 2 hours they were on the phone for about 1 hour and 15 min of it. They were upset....and so was I.


I told them to call me when they needed a ride back to their house, since it was obvious that is all they needed me for in the first place. [Smile]

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JennaDean
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quote:
Cell phones are nice, but they should in now way be used as an excuse to disconnect from the here and now.
But the here and now is so boooooooring.
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Goody Scrivener
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Knowing that the caller was Mom, I'm going to give your wife a bit of a pass on this one. Moms - especially elderly ones - just don't understand that we have lives outside of them. And if Mom is housebound or otherwise isolated, she may really live for her time with your wife, even if it is just a phone conversation.

That said, though, I'll agree that your wife should have at least attempted to cut the call short with a promise to return the call at a more appropriate time.

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Tatiana
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Dan, while I generally support courtesy, this post counts as what Miss Manners calls a "gotcha" etiquette question, one which is asked only to prove the asker right and someone else wrong. I'm sorry to have to inform you that no less authority than Miss Manners has declared the whole game of gotcha to be rude. [Frown]

But I'm totally with you on the general point. [Smile]

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Dan_raven
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Just to show you how rude, while in the car, after one of these 15 minute phone conversations, I mentioned to my wife that I was thinking of posting an etiquette question on Hatrack.

"What kind?" she asked.

I then described the question like above.

"Oh, that is rude. Whoever does that should be kicked out of the car."

I began laughing.

"What?" she asked. She looked at the guilty phone in her hands and suddenly realized what I was saying.

Several excuses later she admitted her problem and promised not to do it again.

But I was hoping this post would lead to other conversations about the role of interconnectivity and spacial presence and the etiquette of walking between the two.

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Samprimary
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hahahahahahaha
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Lostinspace
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan_raven:
Just to show you how rude, while in the car, after one of these 15 minute phone conversations, I mentioned to my wife that I was thinking of posting an etiquette question on Hatrack.

"What kind?" she asked.

I then described the question like above.

"Oh, that is rude. Whoever does that should be kicked out of the car."

I began laughing.

"What?" she asked. She looked at the guilty phone in her hands and suddenly realized what I was saying.

Several excuses later she admitted her problem and promised not to do it again.

But I was hoping this post would lead to other conversations about the role of interconnectivity and spacial presence and the etiquette of walking between the two.

I was discussing this thread on Saturday when out with my wife at a resturant while we had to deal with the guy sitting next to us screaming into his phone. We asked the waiter to move us because we could not enjoy our converstation over his. I understand the need to sometimes be on the phone but in public one needs to excuse themselves from the table and talk were it is more appropriate!
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Juxtapose
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Others have already said what I would have regarding Dan's scenario, so I'll pose my own little hypothetical:

Let's say you're having dinner with your significant other in a restaurant. It's a nice place, but nothing too fancy. To your left is:

1) A person speaking on their cellphone at a reasonable volume.

2) A person speaking on their cellphone in a louder-than-necessary voice.

3) A couple having a conversation at a reasonable volume.

4) A couple having a louder-than-necessary conversation.

Who is ruder? Personally, I think the rudeness hinges on volume of voice, and whether it infringes on my ability to have a conversation, but I have spoken to at least one woman who views speaking on a cellphone as ruder than a two-person conversation at the same volume. She was unable to fully articulate why, and I suspect it was because she couldn't eavesdrop on the entire conversation. [Wink]

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Lostinspace
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quote:
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
Others have already said what I would have regarding Dan's scenario, so I'll pose my own little hypothetical:

Let's say you're having dinner with your significant other in a restaurant. It's a nice place, but nothing too fancy. To your left is:

1) A person speaking on their cellphone at a reasonable volume.

2) A person speaking on their cellphone in a louder-than-necessary voice.

3) A couple having a conversation at a reasonable volume.

4) A couple having a louder-than-necessary conversation.

Who is ruder? Personally, I think the rudeness hinges on volume of voice, and whether it infringes on my ability to have a conversation, but I have spoken to at least one woman who views speaking on a cellphone as ruder than a two-person conversation at the same volume. She was unable to fully articulate why, and I suspect it was because she couldn't eavesdrop on the entire conversation. [Wink]

I will say that I am more offended by the cell phone because I feel like the person wants to be with the person they are talking with but are not so that is an escape out of society. I know things happen....my wife, before we were married, and I lived a ways apart and we would call each other at a set time. I know there were times she was out to dinner with friends when these calls took place but knowing that on those days, I kept the calls short and to the point. Loud people next to me in a resturant do bug me, because I think our society has become a I will do what I want until you infringe on me society instead of a I will do what I want as long as it does not infringe on you society. I was rasied to be have as the latter...and I think my mother for that. I have several other issues that I could bring up but they are not so much cell phone as more recent loss of true politeness in society.
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Juxtapose
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Sorry, given Dan's question I should have clarified further.

You don't know the people in the hypotheticals; they're seated at a different table. The person on the cellphone is dining alone.

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advice for robots
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I do not like cell phones much, and don't usually carry one. I find it annoying when people around me are talking on phones. They get this "don't-see-you" stare, they whirl around to turn their back to everybody, they don't participate in the moment. You can't acknowledge them with a smile or a "Hi." They kind of cut themselves out of the real world. Somehow that gives me a big sense of loss.
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Lostinspace
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quote:
Originally posted by advice for robots:
I do not like cell phones much, and don't usually carry one. I find it annoying when people around me are talking on phones. They get this "don't-see-you" stare, they whirl around to turn their back to everybody, they don't participate in the moment. You can't acknowledge them with a smile or a "Hi." They kind of cut themselves out of the real world. Somehow that gives me a big sense of loss.

I tend to agree. I think people to often use technology as an excuse not to be involved in the hear and now. I think it makes for disconnections in society. I can't say a kindly hi to someone I pass on the street because they are on the phone and then there are the people who live with the bluetooths in their ears so you never know if they are on the phone or not!
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Juxtapose
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quote:
I can't say a kindly hi to someone I pass on the street because they are on the phone.
Would you interrupt two strangers in conversation to say "hi" as you passed them on the street?
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Elmer's Glue
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I would rather have people go into their own little bubble when they are on their cell phone than try to be part of what is going on around them while they talk on the phone.
Keep the conversation short though...

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
quote:
I can't say a kindly hi to someone I pass on the street because they are on the phone.
Would you interrupt two strangers in conversation to say "hi" as you passed them on the street?
The two people in the OP aren't defined a strangers- I believe the "kindly hi" is intended for friends and neighbors.

Personally, I just say hi to people who are on their phones anyway, quietly.

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Lostinspace
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quote:
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
quote:
I can't say a kindly hi to someone I pass on the street because they are on the phone.
Would you interrupt two strangers in conversation to say "hi" as you passed them on the street?
It all depends on the situation...if eye contact is made, I feel a hi is to be put forward also.
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Juxtapose
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That makes sense. But why, then, can't you say that same "hi" to a person on a phone, assuming the same eye contact is made, and other factors are similar (tone of voice, etc.)?
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Lostinspace
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quote:
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
That makes sense. But why, then, can't you say that same "hi" to a person on a phone, assuming the same eye contact is made, and other factors are similar (tone of voice, etc.)?

Because Etiquette states that when you are in a space with someone on a telephone you should remain silent so they can concentrate on their call. So here is where the issues becomes a problem, I got out into public and am surround by people on phones, house etiquette says I should be quiet so should that carry over to public places too? Hence I should not talk to someone when they are on the phone. Remember the days of being a kid and trying to ask your mom something and you would be told it is not polite to talk to someone when they are on the phone.
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Lostinspace
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http://www.roadandtravel.com/yougogirl/cellphone2.htm

I thought this link was very good!

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advice for robots
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In my experience, people on the phone don’t make eye contact with you as much. They don’t acknowledge that you’re there. I’m sure I do it when I’m on the phone. I’m concentrating on listening, and that’s hard enough in a noisy place. So when I pass someone talking on their cell phone, I don’t get that opportunity to give that nod or say hi and have our existence mutually acknowledged. It’s not a big thing, but you miss it when it’s not there.
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Hank
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I'd like to state that my number one never-violate-it rule of Cell Phone Etiquette is that you don't talk on the phone while checking out in a store or ordering a meal. I do talk when I shop, but if I need to check out, I'll tell the person I'm chatting with that I'm checking out, and I need to hang up, so that I don't melt the next time it rains.
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Farmgirl
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I have this type of argument all the type with my son (the one who is still at home).

But let's say we are on a walk together; or driving in a car together. One of my other two kids call me (one that doesn't live with me). They are on break at work, or lunch hour, etc. They want to talk.

My son in the car with me considers it totally rude that I would have a conversation with his sibling over talking with him here in the car with me.

My rationalization is
1) I see you ALL THE TIME every day, and can talk with you at any point. I rarely get a chance to talk with them, and don't know when they are on breaks to give them a call.

2)I can put it on speaker phone and it can be a full family call (just as if they are there with us). He doesn't like that option either.

How is choosing to talk with my child on the phone any different than having a conversation with them if there were in the backseat of the car with us? How is it favoritism?

I don't think it is "rude" in every case, IMHO.

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Lostinspace
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quote:
Originally posted by Farmgirl:
I have this type of argument all the type with my son (the one who is still at home).

But let's say we are on a walk together; or driving in a car together. One of my other two kids call me (one that doesn't live with me). They are on break at work, or lunch hour, etc. They want to talk.

My son in the car with me considers it totally rude that I would have a conversation with his sibling over talking with him here in the car with me.

My rationalization is
1) I see you ALL THE TIME every day, and can talk with you at any point. I rarely get a chance to talk with them, and don't know when they are on breaks to give them a call.

2)I can put it on speaker phone and it can be a full family call (just as if they are there with us). He doesn't like that option either.

How is choosing to talk with my child on the phone any different than having a conversation with them if there were in the backseat of the car with us? How is it favoritism?

I don't think it is "rude" in every case, IMHO.

To me it kind of depends on the situation there. If you are driving your son someplace and someone calls and you know they only have a short break and you are not sure when you can catch them again, I would say a short call is ok. Now if you are on a walk with your son, to me that is his time, you made the effort to go on a walk with him and that is rude to say well yeah but we can do this any time so it really is not important to me.
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Launchywiggin
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I don't consider it rude at all to talk on the phone while checking out/ordering. I treat clerks the same whether I'm on the phone or not, and I don't think I'll melt if I don't hang up the phone.
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Elmer's Glue
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It is very rude to talk on the phone at the check out. It is even more rude to do it while you are ordering food.
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Dan_raven
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Launchy, that implies that you treat clerks rudely whether you are on the phone or not. You have 5 to 10 seconds to make a personal contact with another person. A smile, a quick heart-felt greeting, and you have turned that person from a nameless clerk into a human being.

Do it, if not for them, then so that your service will improve.

Fargirl--as long as you offer to include your youngest in the conversation, via speaker phone, then the rudeness is negated. You've offered. However, you need to offer frequently, in case one day he changes his mind.

"Hey its your brother Joe. He says hi. Joe, I'm in the car with Mike. Yeah, we are going shopping. You know he's grown so much he needs new shirts for...."

Making sure he is acknowledged is all that you can do.

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ElJay
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*grin*

Dan, the one who lives at home isn't her youngest. They're all adults, and one is trying to make a go of the family farm, while the others are off working/at school.

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AvidReader
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quote:
I treat clerks the same whether I'm on the phone or not, and I don't think I'll melt if I don't hang up the phone.
As a former bank teller, I'd say it's not the initial hello where I need your attention. It's that moment a minute later when I realize there's a problem and can't get you to make eye-contact or hear me over your conversation that you've just shot yourself in the foot.

Cause I get paid by the hour. I can stand there doing nothing until you look up annoyed that I'm taking so long. You're the one I almost guarantee is in a hurry. (Oh, that reminds me of something for the pet peeve thread.)

I so don't miss the teller line.

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Launchywiggin
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quote:
Originally posted by Elmer's Glue:
It is very rude to talk on the phone at the check out. It is even more rude to do it while you are ordering food.

Thank you for your opinion. I disagree. What's rude isn't talking on the phone, it's treating people with disrespect--Whether it's the person taking your food or the people waiting behind you. As long as my phone conversation doesn't inconvenience the employee or the other customers, I don't consider it disrespectful at all.

I always treat clerks and cashiers respectfully. I think it's silly to imply that being on the phone prevents one from doing so.

~Tired of cellphone bashing

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Elmer's Glue
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Talking on the phone is making it very uncomfortable for them to talk to you when they need to. Sounds disrespectful to me.
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The Rabbit
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Having a private conversation in public is always impolite. There are various degrees of rudeness depending on the nature of the private conversation and the courtesy you owe those around you, but it is always at least somewhat impolite.
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