posted
This is probably thread number 5 billion with this topic, but with how technology moves along what was good once is not really in the cards these days.
I know about sites like newegg.com and tiger direct but I just can't find a good combination of what I am looking for. My budget is about $1400 USD but I'd like tread a bit short of that if at all possible. I plan on doing some pretty frequent gaming on it, but I only really care to play WoW, Diablo 3, and StarCraft 2. But I'd like to run those with high settings, which is easier since Blizzard designs their games with backwards compatibility in mind. I'd like to leave open the option of playing good PC games for the next 1-2 years. So a good 3d card (preferably NVIDIA), core 2 quad core, and plenty of ram are of importance to me. I'm not buying a new monitor as my 22" works just fine. My last computer had 111 gigs and that was just fine, I don't need to rock a terabyte.
I'll probably need new speakers, and I play alot of music from my PC.
I'm leaning towards a Dell, but only because I don't know how to put a computer together myself. I know alot about em I've just never sat down and seen one put together. The XPS models from Dell seem interesting but I'm always worried that when a computer puts out a new model line that the computer will have weird problems sooner, (as in 2-3 years) rather than later (4-6 years). I'd like this computer to last a long time, about 5+ years if possible.
Any help that can be rendered would be appreciated. I'd like to order this computer sometime in the next 3 days.
edit: If somebody sees a newegg or tiger direct offer that seems to fit the bill, links to those would still be helpful. Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can't speak for Dell's current products, but my current computer (a Dell xps) is now slightly over 5 years old and has handled new games fairly well until the past year or so with only a couple upgrades over its lifespan (it was able to run supreme commander at low settings, for example).
I'm in somewhat the same boat here. I had intended to build a new one this summer, but I never really had the time, so now I will probably just purchase one.
I'd really like to get one with a Radeon 4850 graphics card since I've heard a lot of good things about its Linux support, but most of the big companies I've checked don't seem to be building with them yet.
I came across a company called CyberpowerPC while searching newegg, and they seem to have pretty decent options for midrange PCs, but since I've never heard of them I am a little hesitant to make a large purchase with them. Is anyone here familiar with these guys?
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wanting a computer that will last 5 years isn't impossible, but it stretches the limitations of modern electronic capability. There aren't many moving parts in computers, but phenomenon like Tin Whiskers (the small amount of tin used in solder joins and some electrical components can grow little conductive whiskers that eventually result in shorts in an electrical circuit) can cause a lot of problems once you get beyond three years. My usual suggestion is to get something cheap for now, but keep an eye open for future upgrades, as upgrading individual components over the life of the computer tends to be cheaper than buying a highly capable system now. Whatever parts you replace can usually be sold over ebay or something once they are no longer useful to you. Usually, components that are more than three years old begin to break down, as the stresses from constant electric current and heat break down the discreet components that make up electrical devices (Microprocessors are usually fairly robust, but Capacitors, inducers, and voltage regulators will break after a certain about of time).
Long story short, in order to have a single computer for longer than 3-4 years without worrying, you need to plan to replace some components every now and then (Like I need to do with this 5 year old sound card I've been hauling around)
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've read good things about GeForce's new 200 line. The 280 seemed to be getting results not incomparable to some dual-card-SLI configurations with earlier cards, even with beta drivers. I covet one for my next computer.
Turtle Beach has been putting out some good, inexpensive sound cards (if the reviews I've read are any indication, anyway.) And not relying on motherboard sound may reduce system load in some cases. Creative has made some interesting claims about some of their cards' abilities to remix digital music for clarity and channels beyond 2.1 in real time, but I haven't read much about how successfuly the hardware fulfills those claims. I will note that most sound cards are fairly easy to install for oneself.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:I came across a company called CyberpowerPC while searching newegg, and they seem to have pretty decent options for midrange PCs, but since I've never heard of them I am a little hesitant to make a large purchase with them. Is anyone here familiar with these guys?
I bought a desktop from them a few years back. I had no complaints. They would assemble the parts for you and even check compatibility, as I recall.
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
You can get an INCREDIBLE computer for $1400 in parts.
I am capable of running Crysis at 45fps with all settings on High at 1920x1080 with a machine that cost me under $800.
Some notes on building a high-performance computer for under $900:
1) SLI/CrossFire isn't worth it. 2) The Intel E8500 Wolfdale is the best CPU for the price right now. 3) In terms of performance vs. power consumption and cost, the best GPU is probably the GeForce 8800GTS G92. If you're really looking to spend $1400, though, this is one of the best places you can splurge. (A lot of systems pad out their cost by going with SLI and putting in two 8800GTs or something similar. This is an option, but the 30% performance increase normally isn't worth the more than 2x increase in cost (since you have to handle more heat and power and need to buy a more expensive (and crowded) motherboard). 4) Antec and CoolerMaster make some fantastic cases nowadays. 5) Don't skimp on the power supply. And I don't mean buy a power supply that is capable of putting out a thousand watts. Rather, buy a power supply with large, quiet fans, solid capacitors, and 80 Plus certification. I use a Corsair PS, and am happy with it. 6) Go with a motherboard that has decent integrated sound. Integrated video is, of course, generally worthless. You want a motherboard without onboard fans, if you can manage it; they're generally more efficient and (obviously) much quieter. 7) Western Digital SATA drives are the best deal on the market right now. Their 640GB drive is astoundingly fast, quiet, efficient, AND inexpensive.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for the help so far folks, I've gotta run to work so I have to be brief.
Tom: Would you suggest then buying all those parts separately and finding somebody who can help me assemble them as I get them?
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would suggest subscribing to the NewEgg and Tiger Direct newsletters, where they frequently post subscriber-only sales, then buying those (or similar) parts when they go on sale. And then assembling them yourself, because I am completely confident in your ability to do so.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
The hardest part of building a PC these days is figuring out where to plug in the case leads on the motherboard. The connectors often aren't labeled (probably not a concern for nicer/name brand cases). Figuring that part out might take up to 5 or 10 minutes.
Buying compatible parts is important but it's easy.
There are tons of "how to assemble a PC" guides out there. If you have an old PC you can just open it up and look at how it's put together to get 75% of the information you'll need.
Tom's advice on buying is good. Even without watching for sales, though, you'll be able to get a lot for the $1400. You could pretty much get THE top of the line video card from either Nvidia or ATI and easily stay within that budget for the rest.
I have a GeForce 8800 GT and it's been quite nice. At the time the GT was a lot cheaper than the GTS but gave equal performance according to some of the testing/review sites I read. That might have changed since I bought (8 months ago).
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, and I sadly have to reccommend against AMD this generation. Their chips are cheaper, but Intel trounces them in benchmarks in test after test.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd feel alot better about assembling a computer if I had somebody there helping me. Where is Jon Boy when you need him?
I suppose it's just the fear of the unknown that eats at me. Also what about warranties? Would I have to purchase warranties for every major part? How do I figure out the compatibility of all the parts? I am fairly limited in what I can fix should a part break down.
Blayne: I'm going to stick with the monitor that came with my computer 5 years ago, it works fine and it will save me more money for computer parts.
Does anybody have an online "how to assemple a PC for idiots" guide that they have used before? I can at least take a look at it and that should give me some idea as to how hard it is.
I might enjoy assembling my own computer, but I again I just don't know what I'm doing.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
DON'T use a magnetic screw driver.
IP: Logged |
CPU: Motherboards are designed to accomodate CPUs with a certain number of pins (electrical contacts) of a given shape and a given range of clock speeds. Usually you're given two key pieces of information: the CPU form factor and the front side bus clock speed. Find a motherboard and a CPU with the same values indicated. (Example: Socket 775 form factor, 1066 MhZ front side bus)
RAM: Slot fit and speed. Most current ATX motherboards accept DDR2 240 pin DIMMs ("dual inline memory modules"). The motherboard specifications will indicate compatible memory speeds (ex: DDR2 800) and capacity limitations (ex: 4 available slots, each can accomodate up to 2 gb). Memory is sold under key specs which match the motherboard specs.
Video: You just find a card that fits the slot on the motherboard. There are options out there, but honestly you'll just want to find a motherboard and video card that use PCI Express x16 slots. (If you plan to use SLI or Crossfire with 2 video cards, just find motherboards that advertise compatibility with one of these and buy accordingly. )
Sound: You might want a sound card, but probably not unless you do professional work with sound (instead just buy a motherboard with integrated sound). If you do, just make sure you buy one that plugs into an available slot on the motherboard. (ex. PCI slot, or PCI-Express x1 or x4 slot. Or you could buy an external USB sound device)
Storage: (Hard Drive). SATA is pretty much the new standard and what you should buy. If the motherboard says SATA and the hard drive says SATA they should work together, pretty much. Look for parts that are rated for the same speed, e.g. SATA-300.
Other drives: (DVD or CD) You can find both SATA and ATA/DMA drives. They use different connectors. Make sure the drives you buy use the same connectors as your motherboard. I'd recommend SATA (easier to install, cables take up less space, potentially faster) (Don't buy an ATA DVD RW drive if your motherboard doesn't have an available ATA/DMA slot.)
I may be forgetting something, but those are the main concerns when you buy parts to make sure they are compatible. It should go without saying that you need parts for a PC and not for a Mac or an IBM mainframe.
I'd reserve some money (~$100-$150) for an external hard drive that you can use for backups. (External because you can then unplug it easily keeping it relatively safe from power surges or the like, and it's portable.)
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I highly doubt Tom was being snarky at all, I also think he meant just waht he said.
I agree with him...BB seems like he could figure it out.
Hell....for $1400 you could get a great computer at Best Buy already assembled. I know, I was just looking at laptops there today.
Hell...Best Buy HAD a terabyte for about $170 as an external.
Price wise wouldn't Best Buy be more or less the same as buying online straight from say Dell or Gateway?
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Probably a little more, in fact. I owe Best Buy some loyalty in that they've always given me good service and they gave us a line of credit when a lot of other places wouldn't, but they've never exactly been a low price leader.
PC Gamer put out a pretty good pc building bible recently, and I think it's still on the shelves. You might want to give it a look. (Notably, their "example rig" was $1,500.)
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I highly doubt Tom was being snarky at all, I also think he meant just waht he said.
I agree with him...BB seems like he could figure it out.
Hell....for $1400 you could get a great computer at Best Buy already assembled. I know, I was just looking at laptops there today.
Hell...Best Buy HAD a terabyte for about $170 as an external.
Price wise wouldn't Best Buy be more or less the same as buying online straight from say Dell or Gateway?
It depends on what sale they are running. Their prices are fairly competitive on most things, although if you want to pick specific motherboards and video cards they probably aren't the best choice. Still, it can't hurt to see what they have in stock......
My point was that even at a big box retail store you can spend less than your target amount (with a terabyte of external storage) and still get a great computer that will meet all of your requirements.
Online you might do even better.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote: Price wise wouldn't Best Buy be more or less the same as buying online straight from say Dell or Gateway?
Depends on the deals. They change from week to week.
Building can be fun (and cheaper as others have demonstrated), but if you just don't feel up to it, I think a Dell would be a fine choice. My own experience with them has been relatively pleasant, at least. I bought a Dimension 8400 4 or 5 years ago that's still going pretty strong with the help of a few upgrades, and then there's the XPS 420 I got earlier this year that can handle everything I've thrown at it pretty well.
One of the things I really like about Dell is that (at least with the XPS models) they include an actual OS disc instead of the limited customized backup solutions provided by companies like HP and Gateway. I also like the design of most of their high end systems (my 420 is pretty ), their cable management, easy access to components (tool-less case, slide-out drive carriages, etc.), and the convenience of an all-inclusive warranty with in-home service if necessary (yes I know all the major pc manufacturers do that, but Dell seems to offer the best value). They also have a pretty decent user forum. It's fairly active and has proven useful for me on several occasions over the years.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I bought my computer from Staples for about $1000 about 5 1/2 years ago. It was a package deal, a HP, and I love it.
I had no experience with computers other than as an inexperienced end user and I added ram, a video card and an extra hard drive in the past 5.5 years. It can run Crisis, although it isn't usually happy about it, and it does everything I ask it to and more usually.
Some people laugh at me when I say buy something upgradable, and they have a point...by the time most people NEED an upgrade they can often get a good deal on a next-gen computer, so a lot of the computers never get upgraded. I still believe that is is nice to have thew options though, and I really have used it myself.
My next one I may try to build one from the ground up, but that still makes me a little nervous. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've found that by the time I'm looking to upgrade any one part, I'm itching to upgrade EVERYTHING (components having gotten nicer and faster and cheaper and all). However, I agree with the advice anyway because "upgradeable" usually corresponds with "repairable" and "accessible."
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah, that is what a lot of people feel, and usually you can get a better computer by that time for about half of what you paid for your first one. I know I can buy a better computer for about $500 now....better than mine was at first, and probably better than it is now even with upgrades.
Heck, some of the $600 notebooks I was looking at are better than my desktop. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Unfortunately, it seems like in between "this computer runs everything I run on it like a dream" and "this computer looks at what I try to run on it, has a hearty laugh at my expense, and locks up" there often seems to be a significant change in motherboard/cpu architecture. I've kept my own computer running a good four years or so, now- memory, video card, and finally CPU- but if I'm ever going to get into the multi-core class, the mobo has to go, and and that point it really becomes questionable whether it isn't better just to get a new system.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
BB, I can come by and help you put it together if you're feeling intimidated.
Also, NewEgg will accept returns on everything, though some items like CPUs will have really short windows in which you can return them. (14 days?) But frankly everything tends to either work or not from the get go.
I have successfully returned motherboards and CPUs to NewEgg with no hassles whatsoever.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MattP: BB, I can come by and help you put it together if you're feeling intimidated.
Also, NewEgg will accept returns on everything, though some items like CPUs will have really short windows in which you can return them. (14 days?) But frankly everything tends to either work or not from the get go.
I have successfully returned motherboards and CPUs to NewEgg with no hassles whatsoever.
Hey I might take you up on this Matt. I'll buy you dinner in exchange for your help, at a restaurant of your choosing?
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
We could just eat pizza or burgers while we're installing the OS or while you show me what the big freaking deal is with WoW. Alternatively, (and even better) I'd love it if you wanted to cook up something interesting you learned how to make while abroad. I'm a sucker for authentic food from other cultures. I'm always suspicious that I'm getting some weird Americanized form when I go to a restaurant.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MattP: We could just eat pizza or burgers while we're installing the OS or while you show me what the big freaking deal is with WoW. Alternatively, (and even better) I'd love it if you wanted to cook up something interesting you learned how to make while abroad. I'm a sucker for authentic food from other cultures. I'm always suspicious that I'm getting some weird Americanized form when I go to a restaurant.
Wouldn't it by definition be unauthentic if I, an American, made any Asian dish?
Unfortunately I am not my father who is a genius when it comes to cooking. However you can choose between chicken curry, which I can make, and it's always yummy to me. Or I can make the always popular cajun favorite, red beans and rice.
But if you decide neither of those are favorable, pizza or burgers are certainly acceptable. But the restaurant dinner is still on the table if you wish.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Our of curiosity, were I to put this together myself, reasonably speaking, can I expect individual parts to start blowing after a few years? How likely is it that my computer if I do the research would hold together well for about 4-5 years?
I know next to nothing about warranties when it comes to individual parts. It was mentioned that some parts only have a few days before they stop taking them back, but that those parts usually break at the get go rather than later.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Matt was talking about Newegg's return policy, which is different from whatever manufacturer's warranty there might be. Depending on the component, these could last anywhere from 30 days to "lifetime." Crucial and Kingston, for instance, have excellent lifetime warranties on their memory, and both have a decent reputation when it comes to a hassle-free exchange. Intel, I believe, has a 3 year warranty on its processors. And so on. If you buy from Newegg you should be able to find this information on the individual product pages.
As for reliability, statistically you'll be fine for at least that 4-5 years you're hoping for. But who knows? The good news is that with the experience you'll gain from building your own system, replacing defective parts (assuming you can narrow the issue to a hardware failure) should be a piece of cake.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've had components last many years and I've had components die after several months. I've also had them arrive broken. There's no general rule of thumb.
Warranties for most components are one year, though individual components can be longer and even the same component can be warrantied differently depending on how you purchase them. Intel CPUs, for instance, have a 3-year warranty when purchased in a retail box but have a vendor-defined warranty when purchased in a slimmed-down "OEM" package. Newegg sells them in both forms, with the retail packaging costing a bit more.
If you buy good quality components and maintain your system (don't let dust build up and clog up the fans and heat syncs) then they will tend to last a long time.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Our of curiosity, were I to put this together myself, reasonably speaking, can I expect individual parts to start blowing after a few years? How likely is it that my computer if I do the research would hold together well for about 4-5 years?
I built my very first computer from scratch in Feb. 04. It's still going strong* (all I've done to it as far as upgrades is added a 2nd HD). It also runs most games seamlessly.
*I have replaced 3 power supplies, however. I think they burned out because of dirty power in my old house, though.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well I feel like a schmuck saying this but my wife came at me out of left field. She said she really didn't want me putting a computer together as school starts next week and I need a computer by then, coupled with her doubts that I knew what I was doing when it came to buying all the individual parts. Apparently her brother puts his computers together and several of his have blown out after scarcely a year. Of course I talked things over with her and tried to resolve her concerns, but she said she would feel alot better if I bought a name brand computer for her and I've decided to compromise on this issue so as to free up ammunition for some other topics we are currently dealing with.
Really sorry I mostly wasted all the time you guys spent helping me. As part of the deal for me buying a Dell instead of putting a computer together I secured my wife's word that next time I get a computer she'll let me build it. I took Tom's suggestion and signed up for Newegg and TigerDirect's newsletters. I'll try to keep track of components. I'll definitely resurrect this thread when the time comes.
I ended up getting a Dell XPS 630. Core 2 Duo Quad core (8MB L2 cache,2.40GHz,1066FSB), 4gigs ram, 650gb, dual Nvidia 9800s, etc. All in all it was $1400. I'll probably post impressions of it, once it comes in the mail. I always feel a jolt of adrenaline when I finally process an order for something big. Now I just have to sit tight until it comes. I might buy a monitor in a few months, but nothing greater than 22".
Again I was really excited to build one this time, but them's the breaks I guess.
----- Matt: I'd still love to cook you curry sometime, heck I'd even be willing to cook enough for your whole family if you think they'd enjoy meeting me and the Mrs. Or we could do a late dinner after your kids are asleep and just chat, it's up to you.
----- And for anybody else who posted in this thread with helpful advice if you are ever in the neighborhood, you may spend one night on my very comfy couch, and me and the Mrs will feed you at a place of your choosing.
edited to correct computer spec accuracy. Specifically the processor and the 3d cards.
posted
In case you ever wondered, by the way, your wife's peace of mind can now be firmly valued at $750. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think you'll be pleased. Dell seems to have gotten much better lately about all the crap they used to put on their machines, so you probably won't even have to do a clean install to get things running right - just some fine tuning here and there.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
It isn't a waste though...you now have some good info on replacing/upgrading parts on this in a few years...although that sounds like a hell of a computer.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: It isn't a waste though...you now have some good info on replacing/upgrading parts on this in a few years...although that sounds like a hell of a computer.
That's why I said I, "mostly wasted...etc."
I don't heavily subscribe to the school of hyperbolic diction.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: It isn't a waste though...you now have some good info on replacing/upgrading parts on this in a few years...although that sounds like a hell of a computer.
That's why I said I, "mostly wasted...etc."
I don't heavily subscribe to the school of hyperbolic diction.
posted
$750 might be a bit harsh, IMO. I came out with a price of about $920 with a quick list from pricewatch.com and not worrying too much about the motherboard or case ($65 for each). I could probably shave $50 off by shopping around for a power supply (I figure you probably want a 750 watt PS for a quad core with dual video cards and dual optical drives, the first one I found was $130). Tried to match specs for the machine 2nd from the right on this page since that matched closely to BlackBlade's description here.
But Tom's probably talking about waiting for subscriber sales rather than shopping for a good price on everything all on the same day. (?)
Oops: that didn't even include an OS or any software and didn't include mouse/keyboard/speakers.
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes. I also went with a single 8800GT rather than dual 8600s, although I still assumed a 750w PS. Dual 8600s is a very underwhelming video option.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Ah! Yeah, that would definitely necessitate some waiting, then. *grin* Dual 9800s != underwhelming.
To be fair I think I initially wrote out 8600, checked my order, then edited it.
My computer is not slated to begin shipping until 09/03/08 Is this a deliberately belated estimate or does this sound normal? I know if you go for dual 3d cards it sometimes delays shipping.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
When you configured your order did it at any point say that your selection may delay shipping?
They do tend to overestimate the ship dates. Mine arrived a week earlier than it said it would. In fact, I didn't even get a shipment confirmation email until the day before it arrived.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by rollainm: When you configured your order did it at any point say that your selection may delay shipping?
They do tend to overestimate the ship dates. Mine arrived a week earlier than it said it would. In fact, I didn't even get a shipment confirmation email until the day before it arrived.
It did say it might be delayed.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Is this a deliberately belated estimate or does this sound normal? I know if you go for dual 3d cards it sometimes delays shipping.
